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Post by matealotblue on May 9, 2020 16:26:03 GMT
Bit confused here with the logic.....if putting U23 teams in the Trophy competition has been met with such derision and paltry crowds how will an extension of this with B teams in the league and this, presumably, also being met with the same paltry attendances and derision help any football club? It’s never been about helping Football League clubs, introducing B teams into L1 and L2 is just what the Prem clubs want. Think we are in violent agreement there tbh! Just saying it differently. I can not see how this could ever get any traction in L1/L2.....but we live in strange times. I can honestly say that should it ever happen I am going to take up tiddlywinks, or something like it, on a Saturday afternoon.
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Post by Topper Gas on May 9, 2020 18:37:33 GMT
I doubt league one and two clubs would vote for this idea from a brighton employee. Straight away clubs would lose season ticket holders or should i say even more season ticket holders. At the moment we only have just over 1,000 season ticket holders, I doubt Weal, a big Chelsea fan, would worry about losing a few if it meant the difference between surviving next season behind closed doors and the club going into admin?
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Post by tecallaghan on May 9, 2020 18:39:09 GMT
Firstly, how does it hurt them more to sit at home and feed the pockets of the rih y watching the Champions League than for 800 to pay a fiver to watch Rovers get dicked by West Ham U21s? You watching increases their ratings which increases ad revenue which increases TV rights prices which means they get more money than us labouring a bore draw against a bunch of kids.
Secondly, to blame the fans who support their club is very shortsighted. I would LOVE to blame EVERYONE who voted Tory for the shitshow of a last few years, but I clearly recognise that people make what they feel are the best choices for their lives with the information available to them at that time. It would be arrogant of me and blatantly wrong.
The football chiefs in charge are the creators of their own demise. As the Premier League grew, the EFL and the FA shirked away and allowed their dominance to grow with no inclination to challenge them when pushed, nor did they try to consider how their houses were set. Only now (and as a Liverpool fan I can certainly give him a lot of criticism) has Rick Parry and the EFL started to recognise there has to be some fundamental changes to the way the club's and the football economic model works below the Premier League. The ridiculous tribunal process and fee allocation for free transfers under 24 years of age: how many clubs lost out on fair prices for talented players after all the effort to develop them? Decisions like that have contributed to the current climate of today more than the poor format of the EFL Trophy.
The Trophy is a failure by out of touch old football heads to try and stay relevant and picking the wrong horses to bet on. There are plenty of ways to make it more appealing and they don't involve sh**ty group games and getting spanked by Man City's child squad.
From a club and fan perspective? It's a terrible tournament, but we're in it. Now, if we get a choice to say before next season that we don't want to participate? Definitely do it. 100% say no and don't enter. Waste of our time and effort. But if we're in it, it's quite poor to judge the fans who support their team. It certainly isn't for glory hunting, let's be honest. Fans want to see success and they love their club.
From a professional point of view, if I'm a manager or player having to play in this cup then I give 100% to win. Do you think every soldier that goes to fight for Queen and Country believes in the reason they fight? No. But it's their job and they do it because they have to. Fans who support their team through thick and thin are not the reason the EFL, FA and English football has continually been gutless.
Ultimately, greed begets greed. The rich want to be richer and have more control. Yes, the fans have their say. But the authorities are the ones in charge to stand at the front of that fight and we have been failed by them. Unless we stage a literal riot and revolution begins, you're pinning a lot upon people who's only crime is being in love with something.
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Post by mjhgas on May 9, 2020 19:20:46 GMT
The football club would get a few million quid for the privilege.
They would also lose more fans than they gain.
You'd be watching in front of crowds of 2,000. No atmosphere, minimal away fans.
Leagues 1, 2 and non-league need to tell the FA that they are walking away from their organisation and starting again.
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Post by turdburger on May 9, 2020 19:29:41 GMT
Those who didn’t boycott. SHAME ON YOU. You have contributed to this being discussed, rather than try nip it in the bud early. you are a massive problem and ammo to make this a possibility. I’ll walk away from it all if this happens. But you enjoy propping up the B teams. You had your chance, you cannot complain. I blame Henbury. :Scab: I agree, between him and PC Julie they've let the B teams infiltrate our ranks. Public flogging is the only answer
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Post by Westy on May 9, 2020 19:36:07 GMT
Can I just say here, there seems to be a lot of blame and hate pointed towards supporters just for turning up. Now, I only tend to go to league matches myself, but I do attend cup draws like the LC as and when.
Can we just take a moment to reflect on the fact that it isn't "the fault of every supporter turning up" to League Cup matches, and as someone who does - it isn't because I *support the format* it happens to be when the fixture suits me, I've got the money in my pocket, and I'm able to make the plans, and turn out and buy a ticket.
I get all the hubbub, and B-teams would be an insult, but I gotta say stop hating fans for buying a ticket to cheer on the gas. Rant over just needed to redirect a few people's hot air..
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Post by Gasshole on May 9, 2020 20:14:45 GMT
Why don’t they just start a Premier B league ? Play the games as a prequel to the main event.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2020 20:31:23 GMT
Very interesting that people who have attended the only current tournament with B Teams in, don’t think they are at all to blame for the potential inclusion of B Teams in the league. Like watering your pants because it’s cold. It’s not a good look to have gone to one of those games, but for a few fool hardy souls to carry a significant amount of blame for under 23 teams in the league is, quite frankly, beyond ridiculous.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2020 20:33:58 GMT
Firstly, how does it hurt them more to sit at home and feed the pockets of the rih y watching the Champions League than for 800 to pay a fiver to watch Rovers get dicked by West Ham U21s? You watching increases their ratings which increases ad revenue which increases TV rights prices which means they get more money than us labouring a bore draw against a bunch of kids. Secondly, to blame the fans who support their club is very shortsighted. I would LOVE to blame EVERYONE who voted Tory for the shitshow of a last few years, but I clearly recognise that people make what they feel are the best choices for their lives with the information available to them at that time. It would be arrogant of me and blatantly wrong. The football chiefs in charge are the creators of their own demise. As the Premier League grew, the EFL and the FA shirked away and allowed their dominance to grow with no inclination to challenge them when pushed, nor did they try to consider how their houses were set. Only now (and as a Liverpool fan I can certainly give him a lot of criticism) has Rick Parry and the EFL started to recognise there has to be some fundamental changes to the way the club's and the football economic model works below the Premier League. The ridiculous tribunal process and fee allocation for free transfers under 24 years of age: how many clubs lost out on fair prices for talented players after all the effort to develop them? Decisions like that have contributed to the current climate of today more than the poor format of the EFL Trophy. The Trophy is a failure by out of touch old football heads to try and stay relevant and picking the wrong horses to bet on. There are plenty of ways to make it more appealing and they don't involve sh**ty group games and getting spanked by Man City's child squad. From a club and fan perspective? It's a terrible tournament, but we're in it. Now, if we get a choice to say before next season that we don't want to participate? Definitely do it. 100% say no and don't enter. Waste of our time and effort. But if we're in it, it's quite poor to judge the fans who support their team. It certainly isn't for glory hunting, let's be honest. Fans want to see success and they love their club. From a professional point of view, if I'm a manager or player having to play in this cup then I give 100% to win. Do you think every soldier that goes to fight for Queen and Country believes in the reason they fight? No. But it's their job and they do it because they have to. Fans who support their team through thick and thin are not the reason the EFL, FA and English football has continually been gutless. Ultimately, greed begets greed. The rich want to be richer and have more control. Yes, the fans have their say. But the authorities are the ones in charge to stand at the front of that fight and we have been failed by them. Unless we stage a literal riot and revolution begins, you're pinning a lot upon people who's only crime is being in love with something. Bloody good point- it’s the people who have put money in Sky’s pocket who carry far more blame for creating this monster, moreso than the tiny minority who went to JPT games.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2020 20:38:24 GMT
You mean 800 odd people set some sort of a precedent that under 23 teams would be tolerated? I think you give them too much credit if that’s the case. The JPT is immaterial in the grand scheme of things- it makes good business sense for the premier league clubs to form “strategic alliances” with lower league clubs and it’s just a logical conclusion that would have happened under any condition where the lower leagues simply ran out of money. In fact they have probably been asking nicely long before under 23 teams entered the JPT but now they have the leverage to tell these clubs to comply and form an alliance, or just potentially go bust. Hobson’s choice. No. That's literally the opposite of what I said. The PL wanted the under 23s. If no one had turned up they couldn't spin it as anything but total rejection. People turned up. They span it as acceptance. In response to your point- it's not really Hobson’s choice. There is nothing to say that professional football clubs must play in the EFL. That's just the most popular (i.e. the monopoly) competition for professional football in England. If 800 people from a usual crowd of 7,000 isn’t total rejection then I’ve got no words basically. That raises a point- how are they contracted to the football league? Is there some sort of exclusivity clause to preclude clubs breaking away in their current form? It would be odd if the league didn’t try and protect their IP in that way by trying to hedge against a breakaway competitor. I guess some clubs may try and do that if possible but it’s hard to see they could do it in enough numbers to make a viable league. The clubs want the money at the end of the day and such a new league would have no premier league to aspire to and no Tv deal on the table. It would be a really tough sell to get enough clubs across and imo would end up at best as a half way house with a handful trying to be revolutionary but the majority realising that under 23 teams are a necessary evil to stay plugged into the money. All complete conjecture, but as I said above it comes down to business rather than footballing integrity- which is the crux of the whole problem
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2020 0:47:55 GMT
I doubt league one and two clubs would vote for this idea from a brighton employee. Straight away clubs would lose season ticket holders or should i say even more season ticket holders. At the moment we only have just over 1,000 season ticket holders, I doubt Weal, a big Chelsea fan, would worry about losing a few if it meant the difference between surviving next season behind closed doors and the club going into admin? I get you. For myself i will not be following or watching on tv any football played behind closed doors. Shut it down until the game can be played with an audience i say.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on May 10, 2020 0:48:09 GMT
Boycott this thread!
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2020 0:51:19 GMT
No. That's literally the opposite of what I said. The PL wanted the under 23s. If no one had turned up they couldn't spin it as anything but total rejection. People turned up. They span it as acceptance. In response to your point- it's not really Hobson’s choice. There is nothing to say that professional football clubs must play in the EFL. That's just the most popular (i.e. the monopoly) competition for professional football in England. If 800 people from a usual crowd of 7,000 isn’t total rejection then I’ve got no words basically. That raises a point- how are they contracted to the football league? Is there some sort of exclusivity clause to preclude clubs breaking away in their current form? It would be odd if the league didn’t try and protect their IP in that way by trying to hedge against a breakaway competitor. I guess some clubs may try and do that if possible but it’s hard to see they could do it in enough numbers to make a viable league. The clubs want the money at the end of the day and such a new league would have no premier league to aspire to and no Tv deal on the table. It would be a really tough sell to get enough clubs across and imo would end up at best as a half way house with a handful trying to be revolutionary but the majority realising that under 23 teams are a necessary evil to stay plugged into the money. All complete conjecture, but as I said above it comes down to business rather than footballing integrity- which is the crux of the whole problem Thats misleading though. For a fair comparison you would have to compare the attendances with previous EFL trophy games before prem teams.
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Post by yaz on May 10, 2020 4:10:09 GMT
I’d like to say I’d be done with football if this happened, but sadly I think that’s exactly the reaction PL clubs want. I don’t think they even want b teams, I think they want to kill off lower league teams and be like NFL franchise, 20 or 30 teams dotted around the country, all with billionaire owners with no relegation in a multi billion pound super league. Someone’s gotta be brave and bold enough to reign them in and secure the long term future of clubs with proud histories and tradition. What you describe is very much what has been happening on the cricket scene in this country for a very long time. 2 divisions with no relegation from the second at all. The old blue tie mentality with any new blood only coming via the established county teams. No wonder county cricket is so bad and has only been saved by the one dayers.
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Post by Qatar Gas on May 10, 2020 6:28:25 GMT
As long as Wembley gets filled for every FL Trophy final they only need to use that to call it a success and push to take things further. Well supported teams getting to the final over the last few years has not helped. They don't care if teams are breaking their lowest attendance record with crowds of under 1,000 for the group games when 70,000 plus turn up for the final.
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Post by peterparker on May 10, 2020 6:49:35 GMT
I dont think anything in inconceivable anymore. Depending on who or what survives, i wouldnt be surprised in a closed shop PL 1 and 2 and a minor league structure underneath with PL B teams .
You still have the FA Cup. League cup binned and you keep whatever sort of format for the checkatrade with the minor league and B teams
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Post by Henbury Gas on May 10, 2020 7:15:59 GMT
Those who didn’t boycott. SHAME ON YOU. You have contributed to this being discussed, rather than try nip it in the bud early. you are a massive problem and ammo to make this a possibility. I’ll walk away from it all if this happens. But you enjoy propping up the B teams. You had your chance, you cannot complain. I blame Henbury. :Scab: Do you like sex and travel ?
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Marshy
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Post by Marshy on May 10, 2020 7:20:48 GMT
Do you like sex and travel ? Wayhay! I knew that would get you going 😁. Are you okay you old bugger, we haven’t heard much from you?
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Post by Topper Gas on May 10, 2020 7:44:23 GMT
No. That's literally the opposite of what I said. The PL wanted the under 23s. If no one had turned up they couldn't spin it as anything but total rejection. People turned up. They span it as acceptance. In response to your point- it's not really Hobson’s choice. There is nothing to say that professional football clubs must play in the EFL. That's just the most popular (i.e. the monopoly) competition for professional football in England. If 800 people from a usual crowd of 7,000 isn’t total rejection then I’ve got no words basically. That raises a point- how are they contracted to the football league? Is there some sort of exclusivity clause to preclude clubs breaking away in their current form? It would be odd if the league didn’t try and protect their IP in that way by trying to hedge against a breakaway competitor. I guess some clubs may try and do that if possible but it’s hard to see they could do it in enough numbers to make a viable league. The clubs want the money at the end of the day and such a new league would have no premier league to aspire to and no Tv deal on the table. It would be a really tough sell to get enough clubs across and imo would end up at best as a half way house with a handful trying to be revolutionary but the majority realising that under 23 teams are a necessary evil to stay plugged into the money. All complete conjecture, but as I said above it comes down to business rather than footballing integrity- which is the crux of the whole problem So if zero fans had attended do you think the EFL would have still continued with the trial? Although you can't just blame Gasheads as they were similar numbers turning up at all the other L1/L2 grounds, then a total cop out when it got to the final.
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Post by Henbury Gas on May 10, 2020 7:48:30 GMT
Do you like sex and travel ? Wayhay! I knew that would get you going 😁. Are you okay you old bugger, we haven’t heard much from you? Hi my fellow Knobhead ! I'm doing ok and all is well Don't post to much these days this place is so Toxic with dipshits everywhere, it not worth the hassle i use PM's to tell people whats going on if and when i find anything out
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