Marshy
Proper Gas
Posts: 14,090
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Post by Marshy on May 10, 2020 7:58:35 GMT
Wayhay! I knew that would get you going 😁. Are you okay you old bugger, we haven’t heard much from you? Hi my fellow Knobhead ! I'm doing ok and all is well Don't post to much these days this place is so Toxic with dipshits everywhere, it not worth the hassle i use PM's to tell people whats going on if and when i find anything out Fair enough, are you in lockdown with PC Julie?
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Post by LJG on May 10, 2020 8:11:45 GMT
No. That's literally the opposite of what I said. The PL wanted the under 23s. If no one had turned up they couldn't spin it as anything but total rejection. People turned up. They span it as acceptance. In response to your point- it's not really Hobson’s choice. There is nothing to say that professional football clubs must play in the EFL. That's just the most popular (i.e. the monopoly) competition for professional football in England. If 800 people from a usual crowd of 7,000 isn’t total rejection then I’ve got no words basically. That raises a point- how are they contracted to the football league? Is there some sort of exclusivity clause to preclude clubs breaking away in their current form? It would be odd if the league didn’t try and protect their IP in that way by trying to hedge against a breakaway competitor. I guess some clubs may try and do that if possible but it’s hard to see they could do it in enough numbers to make a viable league. The clubs want the money at the end of the day and such a new league would have no premier league to aspire to and no Tv deal on the table. It would be a really tough sell to get enough clubs across and imo would end up at best as a half way house with a handful trying to be revolutionary but the majority realising that under 23 teams are a necessary evil to stay plugged into the money. All complete conjecture, but as I said above it comes down to business rather than footballing integrity- which is the crux of the whole problem It's not 800 out of 7,000 though is it. It's 800 out of about 1,100. Like BB says you have to compare like for like not league trophy games with league games. You're completely missing my point though. Let's put it like this: Let's say the football trophy games had been boycotted (I mean actually boycotted not boycotted but you and Henbury turn up because it's your "right" or whatever I mean zero fans attend) then this suggestion gets made about B teams now. The PL say "This will be great financially for league clubs" and then the league clubs say "Umm it probably won't be actually because we'll have no match day attendance, remember like in the EFL Trophy"? The PL have to acknowledge that. But instead because of the likes of you and Henbury the PL say "This will be great financially for league clubs" and then the league clubs say "Don't you remember the boycott of EFL Trophy games, this could ruin us rather than save us" and the PL say "What boycott? Anyway, as we were saying this will be great for you league clubs". Get me now? You've kept the channel open for it. You had the chance to shut it down but you wanted to exercise your right to go to whatever game you wanted. Well done.
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Post by LJG on May 10, 2020 8:14:32 GMT
They haven't seen 800 people rattling around and concluded anything. They already had the premise made and wanted to be able to spin it. The people who attended gave them the opportunity to do that. There's absolutely no way anyone can deny that. It's completely irrefutable. If they’ve so successfully spun the premise, why aren’t there B teams in English Football then? The proposal was put on the table years ago then taken off it quickly because the EFL clubs put their foot down and said they categorically didn’t want it. Then the EFL trophy was set up to appease the Premier League clubs who wanted more senior opponents for their academy youngsters but in a way that wouldn’t include them in the football pyramid like on the continent, without it Premier League clubs would be pushing even harder for B teams in the English game IMO because there wouldn’t be that opportunity there for their U23 sides. Err don't know if you read the OP or not but the suggestion is still being made ... so ... You weren't one of the ones who exercised your "right" to go to the EFL Trophy games were you by any chance?
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Post by Topper Gas on May 10, 2020 10:17:51 GMT
If 800 people from a usual crowd of 7,000 isn’t total rejection then I’ve got no words basically. That raises a point- how are they contracted to the football league? Is there some sort of exclusivity clause to preclude clubs breaking away in their current form? It would be odd if the league didn’t try and protect their IP in that way by trying to hedge against a breakaway competitor. I guess some clubs may try and do that if possible but it’s hard to see they could do it in enough numbers to make a viable league. The clubs want the money at the end of the day and such a new league would have no premier league to aspire to and no Tv deal on the table. It would be a really tough sell to get enough clubs across and imo would end up at best as a half way house with a handful trying to be revolutionary but the majority realising that under 23 teams are a necessary evil to stay plugged into the money. All complete conjecture, but as I said above it comes down to business rather than footballing integrity- which is the crux of the whole problem It's not 800 out of 7,000 though is it. It's 800 out of about 1,100. Like BB says you have to compare like for like not league trophy games with league games. You're completely missing my point though. Let's put it like this: Let's say the football trophy games had been boycotted (I mean actually boycotted not boycotted but you and Henbury turn up because it's your "right" or whatever I mean zero fans attend) then this suggestion gets made about B teams now. The PL say "This will be great financially for league clubs" and then the league clubs say "Umm it probably won't be actually because we'll have no match day attendance, remember like in the EFL Trophy"? The PL have to acknowledge that. But instead because of the likes of you and Henbury the PL say "This will be great financially for league clubs" and then the league clubs say "Don't you remember the boycott of EFL Trophy games, this could ruin us rather than save us" and the PL say "What boycott? Anyway, as we were saying this will be great for you league clubs". Get me now? You've kept the channel open for it. You had the chance to shut it down but you wanted to exercise your right to go to whatever game you wanted. Well done. Why just single out Gasheads though, even they'd all boycotted games they couldn't stop the other 44(?) teams fans attending? I guess that's the gamble the EFL took as they were confident a number of fans were always going to be gullible enough to watch games. Although we can't turn back time now anyway.
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Post by axegas on May 10, 2020 10:23:37 GMT
If they’ve so successfully spun the premise, why aren’t there B teams in English Football then? The proposal was put on the table years ago then taken off it quickly because the EFL clubs put their foot down and said they categorically didn’t want it. Then the EFL trophy was set up to appease the Premier League clubs who wanted more senior opponents for their academy youngsters but in a way that wouldn’t include them in the football pyramid like on the continent, without it Premier League clubs would be pushing even harder for B teams in the English game IMO because there wouldn’t be that opportunity there for their U23 sides. Err don't know if you read the OP or not but the suggestion is still being made ... so ... You weren't one of the ones who exercised your "right" to go to the EFL Trophy games were you by any chance? By a single technical director of Brighton who’s idea it was in the first place, I’d hardly call that “successful”. At the end of the day it’s the EFL’s competition not the Premier League’s and if the clubs don’t want it, they will vote against it and that will be that.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2020 12:24:48 GMT
If 800 people from a usual crowd of 7,000 isn’t total rejection then I’ve got no words basically. That raises a point- how are they contracted to the football league? Is there some sort of exclusivity clause to preclude clubs breaking away in their current form? It would be odd if the league didn’t try and protect their IP in that way by trying to hedge against a breakaway competitor. I guess some clubs may try and do that if possible but it’s hard to see they could do it in enough numbers to make a viable league. The clubs want the money at the end of the day and such a new league would have no premier league to aspire to and no Tv deal on the table. It would be a really tough sell to get enough clubs across and imo would end up at best as a half way house with a handful trying to be revolutionary but the majority realising that under 23 teams are a necessary evil to stay plugged into the money. All complete conjecture, but as I said above it comes down to business rather than footballing integrity- which is the crux of the whole problem So if zero fans had attended do you think the EFL would have still continued with the trial? Although you can't just blame Gasheads as they were similar numbers turning up at all the other L1/L2 grounds, then a total cop out when it got to the final. It honestly wouldn’t surprise me if in that instance the premier league gave the football league more money just to play in empty stadiums. I mean, we are talking hundreds here, hundreds rattling around in empty stadiums, not even low thousands. I don’t get why people see such significance in hundreds of supporters vs none like it makes all the difference. It is abundantly clear beyond belief that the general public has no appetite to watch midweek Under 23 cup football. I don’t think you can say there is no appetite to watch league football though because that is a different kettle of fish. Some people will be so desperate for their regular Saturday football fix that if that was all that was on offer they would support it simply for something to do and to get their old routine back.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2020 12:30:35 GMT
If 800 people from a usual crowd of 7,000 isn’t total rejection then I’ve got no words basically. That raises a point- how are they contracted to the football league? Is there some sort of exclusivity clause to preclude clubs breaking away in their current form? It would be odd if the league didn’t try and protect their IP in that way by trying to hedge against a breakaway competitor. I guess some clubs may try and do that if possible but it’s hard to see they could do it in enough numbers to make a viable league. The clubs want the money at the end of the day and such a new league would have no premier league to aspire to and no Tv deal on the table. It would be a really tough sell to get enough clubs across and imo would end up at best as a half way house with a handful trying to be revolutionary but the majority realising that under 23 teams are a necessary evil to stay plugged into the money. All complete conjecture, but as I said above it comes down to business rather than footballing integrity- which is the crux of the whole problem It's not 800 out of 7,000 though is it. It's 800 out of about 1,100. Like BB says you have to compare like for like not league trophy games with league games. You're completely missing my point though. Let's put it like this: Let's say the football trophy games had been boycotted (I mean actually boycotted not boycotted but you and Henbury turn up because it's your "right" or whatever I mean zero fans attend) then this suggestion gets made about B teams now. The PL say "This will be great financially for league clubs" and then the league clubs say "Umm it probably won't be actually because we'll have no match day attendance, remember like in the EFL Trophy"? The PL have to acknowledge that. But instead because of the likes of you and Henbury the PL say "This will be great financially for league clubs" and then the league clubs say "Don't you remember the boycott of EFL Trophy games, this could ruin us rather than save us" and the PL say "What boycott? Anyway, as we were saying this will be great for you league clubs". Get me now? You've kept the channel open for it. You had the chance to shut it down but you wanted to exercise your right to go to whatever game you wanted. Well done. Out of interest where have I said that a) I support the Under 23 team format and b) Said that I have been to any of the games or that I would “exercise my right to go to any game I want”? You’ve got previous for getting me confused with someone else and you’ve done so again- I’ve never supported the under 23 format or gone to any of the games. I’ve also never directly put a penny in Sky’s pocket either thank you very much and as I said earlier the people who have done so have helped to create the runaway train that is the premier league and all the financial evil that we see today. None of that can be put at my door. So, as the Wurzels would say: “Don’t tell I, tell ‘ee”
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Post by graceyboy on May 10, 2020 13:15:30 GMT
Why is it that the people that run football in this country are so inept? You just don't get it in other sports, tennis introduced hawkeye, cricket introduced DRS, rugby introduced slow mo try replays, all work brilliantly. We impliment the same system, call it VAR and all hell breaks loose. Couldn't organise a water up in a brewery. Everyone moaning about it, even though we were calling for it for donkeys years. Law makers stating that if the attackers ear is in front of the defender then he's off side. Embarrassing!! We had that sh*t head who was in charge of the premier league telling us that they were going to play a '39th'game in America or China or something, they destroyed the mickey mouse cup by putting prem under 23 teams in it (admittedly there was little to destroy as the competition only becomes relevant when you get to Wembley or beat your local rivals in an earlier round) and now they are insisting on this '10 neutral grounds' nonsense.. Therefore this whole prem b team thing in the football league doesn't surprise me because that is the level of idiot that you are dealing with in the FA/prem league/FL. We look at the success of sprains national team, see they have Barcelona b in their lower leagues and because they are business people and not proper football people, with no knowledge or experience of the game, they think they can impliment it here.. The difference is, we have far more professional league clubs here with real culture and history that they don't have in Spain. It won't happen here and isn't inevitable. Clubs won't allow it. Best thing they can do is scrap the mickey mouse cup and the league Cup just like they did with all of the other nonsensical competitions over the years like the full members Cup, screen sports super Cup, Anglo italian Cup etc. I reckon after this pandemic is over, football should take a look at itself and revert back to the good old days of teams having squads of 25 paid pros instead of 60, a first team,1 reserve team that plays mid week and an under 18s yts youth team and nothing more.. Get rid of all this under 23 squad, under 21 squad, development squad crap and it won't be there to infiltrate our league and Cup system from the bigger clubs looking to justify the wages they pay these young pros who knock about for years without playing any first team football. We're just as bad as a club with all of these stupid age group squads.. How much money are we hemorrhaging by paying the likes of alexis Andre junior wages year after year to sit in all of these ridiculous age groups at the club without getting anywhere near the first team? It's got to change.
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Post by LJG on May 10, 2020 16:46:39 GMT
Err don't know if you read the OP or not but the suggestion is still being made ... so ... You weren't one of the ones who exercised your "right" to go to the EFL Trophy games were you by any chance? By a single technical director of Brighton who’s idea it was in the first place, I’d hardly call that “successful”. At the end of the day it’s the EFL’s competition not the Premier League’s and if the clubs don’t want it, they will vote against it and that will be that. Not sure where this "successful" caveat has come from . I said a failure to boycott the trophy games has enabled the conversation about B teams to continue. It has. That's irrefutable.
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Post by LJG on May 10, 2020 18:13:38 GMT
It's not 800 out of 7,000 though is it. It's 800 out of about 1,100. Like BB says you have to compare like for like not league trophy games with league games. You're completely missing my point though. Let's put it like this: Let's say the football trophy games had been boycotted (I mean actually boycotted not boycotted but you and Henbury turn up because it's your "right" or whatever I mean zero fans attend) then this suggestion gets made about B teams now. The PL say "This will be great financially for league clubs" and then the league clubs say "Umm it probably won't be actually because we'll have no match day attendance, remember like in the EFL Trophy"? The PL have to acknowledge that. But instead because of the likes of you and Henbury the PL say "This will be great financially for league clubs" and then the league clubs say "Don't you remember the boycott of EFL Trophy games, this could ruin us rather than save us" and the PL say "What boycott? Anyway, as we were saying this will be great for you league clubs". Get me now? You've kept the channel open for it. You had the chance to shut it down but you wanted to exercise your right to go to whatever game you wanted. Well done. Why just single out Gasheads though, even they'd all boycotted games they couldn't stop the other 44(?) teams fans attending? I guess that's the gamble the EFL took as they were confident a number of fans were always going to be gullible enough to watch games. Although we can't turn back time now anyway. I haven't singled out Gasheads remember I said It was every single person who went to any single game.
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Post by LJG on May 10, 2020 18:37:28 GMT
So if zero fans had attended do you think the EFL would have still continued with the trial? Although you can't just blame Gasheads as they were similar numbers turning up at all the other L1/L2 grounds, then a total cop out when it got to the final. It honestly wouldn’t surprise me if in that instance the premier league gave the football league more money just to play in empty stadiums. I mean, we are talking hundreds here, hundreds rattling around in empty stadiums, not even low thousands. I don’t get why people see such significance in hundreds of supporters vs none like it makes all the difference. It is abundantly clear beyond belief that the general public has no appetite to watch midweek Under 23 cup football. I don’t think you can say there is no appetite to watch league football though because that is a different kettle of fish. Some people will be so desperate for their regular Saturday football fix that if that was all that was on offer they would support it simply for something to do and to get their old routine back. Fair play to you if you didn't go.
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Post by darkbluegas on May 10, 2020 18:43:45 GMT
The PL league and FA must love reading lower league forum users have these petty arguments about the EFL Trophy. Talk about not being able to see the wood for the trees.
The lower leagues barely serve any purpose to the top level of English football and the money machine that is pay per view Tv. Yet fans continue to moan about the cup competition that barely raised any interest until the latter stages in any previous guise let alone with Premier league sides.
I know it’s not possible to get a true picture but it would be interesting to know how much lower league football fans have paid out to Pay to view tv companies and the sponsors of PL leagues sides over the last ten years.
Anyone with an ounce of knowledge regarding how the economy works could see where this was heading. Was there ever a boycott of SKY TV or the PL which is ultimately the cause of financial disparity in football? If there was I must of missed it.
People can have whatever view they want about the EFL Trophy and of course that’s their entitlement but don’t be fooled into thinking that will change the course of English club football. There are ways to do it but there appears very little appetite amongst fans to make those changes.
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Post by Topper Gas on May 10, 2020 18:54:41 GMT
Why just single out Gasheads though, even they'd all boycotted games they couldn't stop the other 44(?) teams fans attending? I guess that's the gamble the EFL took as they were confident a number of fans were always going to be gullible enough to watch games. Although we can't turn back time now anyway. I haven't singled out Gasheads remember I said It was every single person who went to any single game. Given this is a Rovers forum read mostly by just Rovers fans I sense most people reading that comment would have just assumed it was in reference to Rovers fans attending games.
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Post by Jewson Gas on May 10, 2020 19:19:46 GMT
All we supporters in L1 & L2 should scrap our sky sports subscriptions en masse, including BT, also not support the premier league in any form. Liverpool have always been my 2nd team but I’d be happy to turn my back on them.
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Post by graceyboy on May 10, 2020 20:12:16 GMT
I have to agree. Sky sports was great when it first came in, one channel, then 2. Monday night football as a treat. Then they went overkill, telling us who had won the most throw ins this season etc, showing the first day of pre season training, camping out at each clubs training grounds on transfer deadline day football shown every second of every day and it got too much. Now they short change fans and its got unbearable since they dedicated a channel to each sport even having a channel dedicated to pub sports like darts!!?? They've lost the plot. There's no boxing on sky now unless it's ppv, they dumped tennis, football is shared with bt and amazon prime, no rugby and often have the same programme or match on at least two channels at once. Apart from football, the only other live sport they have is cricket. Total waste of money...a channel dedicated to darts??? What next, the barry Hearn tiddly winks channel? I hate sky.
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Post by rememberhalifax on May 21, 2020 8:51:09 GMT
Thought that would get your attention! but the question was asked on a sports programme this morning 'what can prem/champ clubs do to help the lower league clubs who are struggling financially? and this dreaded idea was muted! eg Macclesfield, Salford more or less becoming Man U B and the like. The good news is that the idea was rejected by all contributors like Neville, Rednapp, and co but they did think that official link ups twixt such clubs (AKA Chelsea and the Dutch club)might be worth considering, so the prem club would loan the lower club players ,the cost being born by the parent club, so no strain on wage bill, do we think this could work ?The benefits to Prem club are experience gained by young players, and to the lower club improved chance of on field success.
Personally i think we should tread very carefully along such a road and where as i can see some short term gain and benefit, eg we could get promoted with 5 Man U players, then what? they go back and we are up the creek without a paddle or up the league without suitable players! plus i would be concerned about the negative effect on our own potential future stars. I would have no problem on us having a couple of Man U players at there expense but think it would be dangerous to go to far down that road, opinions please!
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Post by Antonio Fargas on May 21, 2020 9:06:59 GMT
Have merged.
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Marshy
Proper Gas
Posts: 14,090
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Post by Marshy on May 21, 2020 9:30:21 GMT
All we supporters in L1 & L2 should scrap our sky sports subscriptions en masse, including BT, also not support the premier league in any form. Liverpool have always been my 2nd team but I’d be happy to turn my back on them. I bet you’ve got the Jewson lot!
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Post by Topper Gas on May 21, 2020 10:25:18 GMT
Thought that would get your attention! but the question was asked on a sports programme this morning 'what can prem/champ clubs do to help the lower league clubs who are struggling financially? and this dreaded idea was muted! eg Macclesfield, Salford more or less becoming Man U B and the like. The good news is that the idea was rejected by all contributors like Neville, Rednapp, and co but they did think that official link ups twixt such clubs (AKA Chelsea and the Dutch club)might be worth considering, so the prem club would loan the lower club players ,the cost being born by the parent club, so no strain on wage bill, do we think this could work ?The benefits to Prem club are experience gained by young players, and to the lower club improved chance of on field success. Personally i think we should tread very carefully along such a road and where as i can see some short term gain and benefit, eg we could get promoted with 5 Man U players, then what? they go back and we are up the creek without a paddle or up the league without suitable players! plus i would be concerned about the negative effect on our own potential future stars. I would have no problem on us having a couple of Man U players at there expense but think it would be dangerous to go to far down that road, opinions please! So you wouldn't take just one season in the Championship? As far as "future stars" the last one was Locks and we lost him for nothing anyway! Although I'd have thought the likes of AK develop better playing alongside quality players, such as TC, than the average L1 player. Although knowing our luck we'd be paired with the 82'ers!
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Post by LJG on May 21, 2020 11:10:35 GMT
Thought that would get your attention! but the question was asked on a sports programme this morning 'what can prem/champ clubs do to help the lower league clubs who are struggling financially? and this dreaded idea was muted! eg Macclesfield, Salford more or less becoming Man U B and the like. The good news is that the idea was rejected by all contributors like Neville, Rednapp, and co but they did think that official link ups twixt such clubs (AKA Chelsea and the Dutch club)might be worth considering, so the prem club would loan the lower club players ,the cost being born by the parent club, so no strain on wage bill, do we think this could work ?The benefits to Prem club are experience gained by young players, and to the lower club improved chance of on field success. Personally i think we should tread very carefully along such a road and where as i can see some short term gain and benefit, eg we could get promoted with 5 Man U players, then what? they go back and we are up the creek without a paddle or up the league without suitable players! plus i would be concerned about the negative effect on our own potential future stars. I would have no problem on us having a couple of Man U players at there expense but think it would be dangerous to go to far down that road, opinions please! So you wouldn't take just one season in the Championship? As far as "future stars" the last one was Locks and we lost him for nothing anyway! Although I'd have thought the likes of AK develop better playing alongside quality players, such as TC, than the average L1 player. Although knowing our luck we'd be paired with the 82'ers! That worked out well for Yeovil didn't it? Is the second paragraph in some sort of code?
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