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Post by Jomo on May 21, 2020 11:49:00 GMT
I love how the Prem teams cry their hearts out over their youngsters not getting enough game time, when the whole reason these youngsters are starved of game time is because firstly they're stockpiled by the big clubs rather than being given time to develop at lower league clubs in the first place. This is designed by the Elite Player Performance Plan. And then of course the lower league clubs were banned from being able to make emergency loans, which further limits game time for young players and ensures lower league clubs have a struggle to make ends meet by having a squad large enough to cope with the demands of the season in between transfer windows.
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Post by lastminutewinner on May 21, 2020 11:57:10 GMT
So you wouldn't take just one season in the Championship? As far as "future stars" the last one was Locks and we lost him for nothing anyway! Although I'd have thought the likes of AK develop better playing alongside quality players, such as TC, than the average L1 player. Although knowing our luck we'd be paired with the 82'ers! That worked out well for Yeovil didn't it?Is the second paragraph in some sort of code? Still is kinda sad that Yeovil have reached a higher level of football than we have in recent times. IMO Get there first, 'worry' about the ramifications afterwards. Otherwise why bother at all? might as well pack it in. Its like having a baby, you are never 'ready', you just prepare, adapt and do our best when it happens. Yeovil relied on a small fanbase and loan players to get them up and keep them there.
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Post by Topper Gas on May 21, 2020 12:24:04 GMT
So you wouldn't take just one season in the Championship? As far as "future stars" the last one was Locks and we lost him for nothing anyway! Although I'd have thought the likes of AK develop better playing alongside quality players, such as TC, than the average L1 player. Although knowing our luck we'd be paired with the 82'ers! That worked out well for Yeovil didn't it? Is the second paragraph in some sort of code? Not sure you can blame Yeovil's demise on dropping into non league on the use of loan players, as we manage that w/o using that many loan players. Surely any genuine Rovers fan can work out who AK & TC are from our present 1st team squad? I accept calling TC may confuse posters bu at least he's played at Championship level in the past.
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Post by LJG on May 21, 2020 13:55:35 GMT
That worked out well for Yeovil didn't it? Is the second paragraph in some sort of code? Not sure you can blame Yeovil's demise on dropping into non league on the use of loan players, as we manage that w/o using that many loan players. Surely any genuine Rovers fan can work out who AK & TC are from our present 1st team squad? I accept calling TC may confuse posters bu at least he's played at Championship level in the past. That is the literal exact reason for Yeovil's failure. Haha! You are obsessed with "genuine fans"! It's not a crossword, Topper, mate I don't want to have to get the team sheet out every time I read a post on here. 3,7 Male cat steals the middles from your polos.
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Post by LJG on May 21, 2020 13:56:07 GMT
That worked out well for Yeovil didn't it?Is the second paragraph in some sort of code? Still is kinda sad that Yeovil have reached a higher level of football than we have in recent times. IMO Get there first, 'worry' about the ramifications afterwards. Otherwise why bother at all? might as well pack it in. Its like having a baby, you are never 'ready', you just prepare, adapt and do our best when it happens. Yeovil relied on a small fanbase and loan players to get them up and keep them there. Like I said to Topper. That is literally exactly what Yeovil did.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2020 14:37:18 GMT
Thought that would get your attention! but the question was asked on a sports programme this morning 'what can prem/champ clubs do to help the lower league clubs who are struggling financially? and this dreaded idea was muted! eg Macclesfield, Salford more or less becoming Man U B and the like. The good news is that the idea was rejected by all contributors like Neville, Rednapp, and co but they did think that official link ups twixt such clubs (AKA Chelsea and the Dutch club)might be worth considering, so the prem club would loan the lower club players ,the cost being born by the parent club, so no strain on wage bill, do we think this could work ?The benefits to Prem club are experience gained by young players, and to the lower club improved chance of on field success. Personally i think we should tread very carefully along such a road and where as i can see some short term gain and benefit, eg we could get promoted with 5 Man U players, then what? they go back and we are up the creek without a paddle or up the league without suitable players! plus i would be concerned about the negative effect on our own potential future stars. I would have no problem on us having a couple of Man U players at there expense but think it would be dangerous to go to far down that road, opinions please! So you wouldn't take just one season in the Championship? As far as "future stars" the last one was Locks and we lost him for nothing anyway! Although I'd have thought the likes of AK develop better playing alongside quality players, such as TC, than the average L1 player. Although knowing our luck we'd be paired with the 82'ers! That’s exactly what would happen. So how else would an official, out in the open partnership work? There would likely be in-fighting if prem clubs had partnerships with multiple clubs in the same league, then Portsmouth who have an official partnership with Chelsea get relegated by Gillingham thanks to a goal scored by a Chelsea loanee etc. So how would these partnerships be decided? Footballing philosophy would be a start but that changes as the managers come and go so the only constant factor is a club’s location so it would seem logical that clubs in certain geographical areas team up so the country is roughly divided into footballing ‘counties’, ideally with a team in each division. It would make the logistical problems caused by the changing landscape post CV a lot easier. So for me such an idea for official partnerships would most likely end up with us being patronised by City, Cardiff and Swansea and developing their players.
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Post by badengas on May 21, 2020 15:05:30 GMT
Tbh I haven't read much of anything on here for months but if Liverpool and Man City want our B team to play for them I can't see the problem.
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Post by peterparker on May 21, 2020 15:16:47 GMT
I love how the Prem teams cry their hearts out over their youngsters not getting enough game time, when the whole reason these youngsters are starved of game time is because firstly they're stockpiled by the big clubs rather than being given time to develop at lower league clubs in the first place. This is designed by the Elite Player Performance Plan. And then of course the lower league clubs were banned from being able to make emergency loans, which further limits game time for young players and ensures lower league clubs have a struggle to make ends meet by having a squad large enough to cope with the demands of the season in between transfer windows. it's all arse backwards isn't it. The may get better coaching and have better facilities then they would at a lower league club, but as the PL moan they can't replicate or give them competitive football Now Tom Lockyer may not be a world beater, but he had 100 games under his belt by the time he was 21/22, but what are those games worth to a better player. Obviously there will always be some next big thing snapped up before they have barely played, but the talent doesn't need hoovering up to sit in an U23 team or farmed out on loan slightly different, but look at that Kalas. At Chelsea 7 years and played 2 games for them and was loaned out here, there and everywhere til they sold him to the sh**. madness
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2020 15:42:44 GMT
I love how the Prem teams cry their hearts out over their youngsters not getting enough game time, when the whole reason these youngsters are starved of game time is because firstly they're stockpiled by the big clubs rather than being given time to develop at lower league clubs in the first place. This is designed by the Elite Player Performance Plan. And then of course the lower league clubs were banned from being able to make emergency loans, which further limits game time for young players and ensures lower league clubs have a struggle to make ends meet by having a squad large enough to cope with the demands of the season in between transfer windows. it's all arse backwards isn't it. The may get better coaching and have better facilities then they would at a lower league club, but as the PL moan they can't replicate or give them competitive football Now Tom Lockyer may not be a world beater, but he had 100 games under his belt by the time he was 21/22, but what are those games worth to a better player. Obviously there will always be some next big thing snapped up before they have barely played, but the talent doesn't need hoovering up to sit in an U23 team or farmed out on loan slightly different, but look at that Kalas. At Chelsea 7 years and played 2 games for them and was loaned out here, there and everywhere til they sold him to the sh**. madness They paid stupid money for him though didn’t they? That’s the name of the game, player development is neither here nor there. It’s basically land banking but applied to football players.
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Post by Jomo on May 21, 2020 17:16:48 GMT
it's all arse backwards isn't it. The may get better coaching and have better facilities then they would at a lower league club, but as the PL moan they can't replicate or give them competitive football Now Tom Lockyer may not be a world beater, but he had 100 games under his belt by the time he was 21/22, but what are those games worth to a better player. Obviously there will always be some next big thing snapped up before they have barely played, but the talent doesn't need hoovering up to sit in an U23 team or farmed out on loan slightly different, but look at that Kalas. At Chelsea 7 years and played 2 games for them and was loaned out here, there and everywhere til they sold him to the sh**. madness They paid stupid money for him though didn’t they? That’s the name of the game, player development is neither here nor there. It’s basically land banking but applied to football players. Exactly. It's another money making scheme for clubs that already have more riches than they know what to do with.
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Post by darkbluegas on May 22, 2020 9:38:38 GMT
It’s a perfect storm for premier league sides to turn the screws on lower league sides. If they want to tie up with smaller clubs or introduce B sides there’s not much to stop them under the current structure of English football. Nothing to do with the EFL Trophy just natural economics.
Those at the EFL will have to decide where the future of the lower leagues lie. If they continue with the current set up they will always be subject to the whims of the big clubs. If they decide to break away leaving a PL 1&2 then they create their own product and negotiate deals to suit themselves.
The second is extremely unlikely and would play into the hands of the PL who would love a ring fenced product.
Our best hope is probably to manage the introduction of B teams or feeder clubs to enable us to have a sustainable future. It’s not what anyone would want at our level but would love to know what the realistic options are.
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Post by rememberhalifax on May 22, 2020 9:53:59 GMT
I think that the idea being muted was for any two clubs to have a consensual relationship where club A LOANS club B players at CLUB A s expense and not for clubs to be allocated to each other by the EFL., in which case a link up with 82ers would be extremely unlikely!
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Post by lpgas on May 22, 2020 12:33:50 GMT
Chelsea run 16 odd teams, not including the first team. If clubs were limited to how many youth players they had, and a limit of 3 foreign players in the first team squad it would be better for England, for youth team players and football in general. sadly it will never happen. If everyone stopped watching sky, Virgin and BT we would see some changes for the better, but people are so lazy they would rather press a button on a TV remote than walk 400 yards to support their local team (and I know someone that this applies to) He claims he is a Liverpool supporter, though never been there.
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Post by lastminutewinner on May 22, 2020 16:03:59 GMT
Still is kinda sad that Yeovil have reached a higher level of football than we have in recent times. IMO Get there first, 'worry' about the ramifications afterwards. Otherwise why bother at all? might as well pack it in. Its like having a baby, you are never 'ready', you just prepare, adapt and do our best when it happens. Yeovil relied on a small fanbase and loan players to get them up and keep them there. Like I said to Topper. That is literally exactly what Yeovil did. It hasn't stopped the likes of Rotherham and Barnsley yo-yo'ing between Champ and L1, which is probably the best we can hope for. You cant exactly plan midtable obscurity every season until foundations are in place, to be a force in the Championship?
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Post by LJG on May 23, 2020 8:16:01 GMT
Like I said to Topper. That is literally exactly what Yeovil did. It hasn't stopped the likes of Rotherham and Barnsley yo-yo'ing between Champ and L1, which is probably the best we can hope for. You cant exactly plan midtable obscurity every season until foundations are in place, to be a force in the Championship? I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. I said that Yeovil relied on loanees to advance up the league. That was always clearly an unsustainable plan at the time and has proven to be not only unsustainable but ultimately damaging. I haven't got a clue where planning mid table obscurity comes into that, sorry.
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Post by Topper Gas on May 23, 2020 9:41:31 GMT
It hasn't stopped the likes of Rotherham and Barnsley yo-yo'ing between Champ and L1, which is probably the best we can hope for. You cant exactly plan midtable obscurity every season until foundations are in place, to be a force in the Championship? I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. I said that Yeovil relied on loanees to advance up the league. That was always clearly an unsustainable plan at the time and has proven to be not only unsustainable but ultimately damaging. I haven't got a clue where planning mid table obscurity comes into that, sorry. Is there any real evidence Yeovil's demise was totally down to using too many loan players or just poor management once they were relegated back to L1? Burton have shown with limited means you can get to the Championship and not then drop like a stone once you get relegated, likewise Luton will probably be one of next season's promotion favourites rather than relegation candidates and they are not really any bigger a club than us.
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Post by LJG on May 23, 2020 10:33:25 GMT
I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. I said that Yeovil relied on loanees to advance up the league. That was always clearly an unsustainable plan at the time and has proven to be not only unsustainable but ultimately damaging. I haven't got a clue where planning mid table obscurity comes into that, sorry. Is there any real evidence Yeovil's demise was totally down to using too many loan players or just poor management once they were relegated back to L1? Burton have shown with limited means you can get to the Championship and not then drop like a stone once you get relegated, likewise Luton will probably be one of next season's promotion favourites rather than relegation candidates and they are not really any bigger a club than us. There's no real evidence for anything, Topper. That's why I have to come on here to read your posts so I can decide what I think about any variety of topics.
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Post by casey12a on May 24, 2020 4:09:21 GMT
It would be ridiculous, in our case our B team Bristol City 82 would actually be in a division above us. I don't see how that would make sense.
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Post by axegas on May 24, 2020 9:40:00 GMT
According to Sun journalist Alan Nixon:
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Post by Jomo on May 24, 2020 9:47:21 GMT
According to Sun journalist Alan Nixon: It's inevitable that they'll twist the knife to such a point when smaller clubs have no choice but to cave in to the demands of the PL, which will undoubtedly be B teams. In some ways I wish they'd just come out with it and get it done, rather than prolonging the agony of waiting for it.
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