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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 28, 2022 16:24:11 GMT
Yattongas, you are aware Labour is supposed to be a socialist party, right? So it is the centrists that need to bugger off and have their own party. That was tried in the early 80s which resulted in 18 years of Conservative rule until Kinnock, John Smith and then Blair/Brown/Mandleson realised that Labour needed to be more pragmatic. Would you rather implement some of your preferred policies or forever stay in opposition helping no one? |
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Post by fintanstack on Aug 28, 2022 16:51:29 GMT
You are aware that to get elected you have to be electable ? Not sure if you’re aware but you can do naff all in opposition. Hope this helps 😃👍 [br Bloody clown, he was very electable and that is why the establishment set out to smear him. Funny how if you compare the number of articles on Corbyn being an “anti-semite” before he was leader to when he was, you’ll find that the number is 0 compared to thousands. If France gas is Tory scum, you appear to be leftie scum. Certainly Francegas is more reasonable, mature and polite. |
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Post by francegas on Aug 28, 2022 18:14:09 GMT
[br Bloody clown, he was very electable and that is why the establishment set out to smear him. Funny how if you compare the number of articles on Corbyn being an “anti-semite” before he was leader to when he was, you’ll find that the number is 0 compared to thousands. If France gas is Tory scum, you appear to be leftie scum. Certainly Francegas is more reasonable, mature and polite. Thank you. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2022 20:31:03 GMT
Sometimes I forget this forum is full of old farts. Bollocks to the lot of you. Enjoy the soaring bills 🙄
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Post by yattongas on Aug 28, 2022 20:33:44 GMT
Sometimes I forget this forum is full of old farts. Bollocks to the lot of you. Enjoy the soaring bills 🙄 Thanks for your valuable input , do come back . 😃 |
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Post by popuppirate on Aug 28, 2022 21:10:36 GMT
I do sympathise with brisgas to a degree, capitalism has completely failed us and although I'll support Starmer, he's hardly galvanising the party or pulling up trees.
There's an argument that Corbyn was too principled to be elected, it's a long discussion for debate and probably not suited to here. I will say that I won't hear for a second that he was anti-Semitic, nor a terrorist sympathiser. Those are the two most common statements I still hear when he's discussed, those and the fact that they don't trust him. 'I just don't trust that Jeremy Corbyn' I've heard over and over; quite remarkable considering what they then chose to vote for and what we ended up with. The public's attention span is now far too short to apply any sense or reason to decisions such as Brexit and whether they might just have been gaslighted into the mess we find ourselves in.
I've said it before, we get the government (and opposition) we deserve
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Post by yattongas on Aug 28, 2022 21:16:59 GMT
I do sympathise with brisgas to a degree, capitalism has completely failed us and although I'll support Starmer, he's hardly galvanising the party or pulling up trees. There's an argument that Corbyn was too principled to be elected, it's a long discussion for debate and probably not suited to here. I will say that I won't hear for a second that he was anti-Semitic, nor a terrorist sympathiser. Those are the two most common statements I still hear when he's discussed, those and the fact that they don't trust him. 'I just don't trust that Jeremy Corbyn' I've heard over and over; quite remarkable considering what they then chose to vote for and what we ended up with. The public's attention span is now far too short to apply any sense or reason to decisions such as Brexit and whether they might just have been gaslighted into the mess we find ourselves in. I've said it before, we get the government (and opposition) we deserve |
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Post by popuppirate on Aug 28, 2022 21:30:08 GMT
I do sympathise with brisgas to a degree, capitalism has completely failed us and although I'll support Starmer, he's hardly galvanising the party or pulling up trees. There's an argument that Corbyn was too principled to be elected, it's a long discussion for debate and probably not suited to here. I will say that I won't hear for a second that he was anti-Semitic, nor a terrorist sympathiser. Those are the two most common statements I still hear when he's discussed, those and the fact that they don't trust him. 'I just don't trust that Jeremy Corbyn' I've heard over and over; quite remarkable considering what they then chose to vote for and what we ended up with. The public's attention span is now far too short to apply any sense or reason to decisions such as Brexit and whether they might just have been gaslighted into the mess we find ourselves in. I've said it before, we get the government (and opposition) we deserve I read it, and at the time it was published. Mistaken, yes, anti-Semitic, I genuinely won't believe that. I won't get into the anti-zionist Vs anti-Semitic issue as it's sensitive and not for here either. It's telling that Corbyn being 'anti-Semitic' was a factor in him being unelectable, whereas Johnson and his classic casual racism was obviously acceptable. |
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Post by yattongas on Aug 28, 2022 21:44:17 GMT
I read it, and at the time it was published. Mistaken, yes, anti-Semitic, I genuinely won't believe that. I won't get into the anti-zionist Vs anti-Semitic issue as it's sensitive and not for here either. It's telling that Corbyn being 'anti-Semitic' was a factor in him being unelectable, whereas Johnson and his classic casual racism was obviously acceptable. Can’t argue with that , Corbyn was definitely kicked from pillar to post by the right wing papers but that’s just the way it is in this country. The Tory party without doubt has racists ( islamophobia ) but that’s swept under the carpet. That’s what happens when foreign billionaires own the papers . They print what’s best for them…. A Tory gov. |
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Post by oldie on Aug 29, 2022 8:53:15 GMT
I do sympathise with brisgas to a degree, capitalism has completely failed us and although I'll support Starmer, he's hardly galvanising the party or pulling up trees. There's an argument that Corbyn was too principled to be elected, it's a long discussion for debate and probably not suited to here. I will say that I won't hear for a second that he was anti-Semitic, nor a terrorist sympathiser. Those are the two most common statements I still hear when he's discussed, those and the fact that they don't trust him. 'I just don't trust that Jeremy Corbyn' I've heard over and over; quite remarkable considering what they then chose to vote for and what we ended up with. The public's attention span is now far too short to apply any sense or reason to decisions such as Brexit and whether they might just have been gaslighted into the mess we find ourselves in. I've said it before, we get the government (and opposition) we deserve Therein lies the rub. "Too principled to be elected" I did not read it that way. More "too much of an absolutist" This is classic behaviour of those who would brook do dissent. He should never have attempted to be a member of a Parliamentary Democracy, his beliefs, as stated, are not compatible. To this day he, and his supporters, still claim his policies were popular. It's just that the majority did not vote for them. As for the death of capitalism, that will not die as long as demand is the mother of invention. That starts in your own homes. He without my sin cast the first stone. |
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Post by popuppirate on Aug 29, 2022 9:24:47 GMT
I do sympathise with brisgas to a degree, capitalism has completely failed us and although I'll support Starmer, he's hardly galvanising the party or pulling up trees. There's an argument that Corbyn was too principled to be elected, it's a long discussion for debate and probably not suited to here. I will say that I won't hear for a second that he was anti-Semitic, nor a terrorist sympathiser. Those are the two most common statements I still hear when he's discussed, those and the fact that they don't trust him. 'I just don't trust that Jeremy Corbyn' I've heard over and over; quite remarkable considering what they then chose to vote for and what we ended up with. The public's attention span is now far too short to apply any sense or reason to decisions such as Brexit and whether they might just have been gaslighted into the mess we find ourselves in. I've said it before, we get the government (and opposition) we deserve Therein lies the rub. "Too principled to be elected" I did not read it that way. More "too much of an absolutist" This is classic behaviour of those who would brook do dissent. He should never have attempted to be a member of a Parliamentary Democracy, his beliefs, as stated, are not compatible. To this day he, and his supporters, still claim his policies were popular. It's just that the majority did not vote for them. As for the death of capitalism, that will not die as long as demand is the mother of invention. That starts in your own homes. He without my sin cast the first stone. I don't think we'll see the death of capitalism, but maybe capitalism will be the death of us. It can't be denied we're in trouble, and the government's policies are totally inadequate to solve anything. As for Corbyn's policies, I don't believe for a minute it was this that prevented him being elected |
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Post by yattongas on Aug 29, 2022 9:41:27 GMT
Therein lies the rub. "Too principled to be elected" I did not read it that way. More "too much of an absolutist" This is classic behaviour of those who would brook do dissent. He should never have attempted to be a member of a Parliamentary Democracy, his beliefs, as stated, are not compatible. To this day he, and his supporters, still claim his policies were popular. It's just that the majority did not vote for them. As for the death of capitalism, that will not die as long as demand is the mother of invention. That starts in your own homes. He without my sin cast the first stone. I don't think we'll see the death of capitalism, but maybe capitalism will be the death of us. It can't be denied we're in trouble, and the government's policies are totally inadequate to solve anything. As for Corbyn's policies, I don't believe for a minute it was this that prevented him being elected To be fair there were just too many policies in the end . Some were great but they seemed to announce a new one virtually everyday. The free internet for all was much derided but I thought that was an excellent policy which really could of massively helped the uk economy ( for all ) and productivity. |
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Post by popuppirate on Aug 29, 2022 9:53:20 GMT
I don't think we'll see the death of capitalism, but maybe capitalism will be the death of us. It can't be denied we're in trouble, and the government's policies are totally inadequate to solve anything. As for Corbyn's policies, I don't believe for a minute it was this that prevented him being elected To be fair there were just too many policies in the end . Some were great but they seemed to announce a new one virtually everyday. The free internet for all was much derided but I thought that was an excellent policy which really could of massively helped the uk economy ( for all ) and productivity. The majority of the public don't pay attention to policies and manifestos, just the headlines no matter the source or validity. Photos of someone with a beard and a cardigan from 1981 attending an IRA funeral were evidence enough that Corbyn couldn't be trusted. Much of the time that's as deep as it gets unfortunately |
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Post by yattongas on Aug 29, 2022 10:00:33 GMT
To be fair there were just too many policies in the end . Some were great but they seemed to announce a new one virtually everyday. The free internet for all was much derided but I thought that was an excellent policy which really could of massively helped the uk economy ( for all ) and productivity. The majority of the public don't pay attention to policies and manifestos, just the headlines no matter the source or validity. Photos of someone with a beard and a cardigan from 1981 attending an IRA funeral were evidence enough that Corbyn couldn't be trusted. Much of the time that's as deep as it gets unfortunately That’s why Labour need to have just three or four headline policies going into the next election. Repeat them ad nauseam . Short and pithy , you know like “take back control “ 🙄 or whatever three word slogan people grasp. Politics is sound bites not detail these days . |
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Post by oldie on Aug 29, 2022 10:38:47 GMT
Therein lies the rub. "Too principled to be elected" I did not read it that way. More "too much of an absolutist" This is classic behaviour of those who would brook do dissent. He should never have attempted to be a member of a Parliamentary Democracy, his beliefs, as stated, are not compatible. To this day he, and his supporters, still claim his policies were popular. It's just that the majority did not vote for them. As for the death of capitalism, that will not die as long as demand is the mother of invention. That starts in your own homes. He without my sin cast the first stone. I don't think we'll see the death of capitalism, but maybe capitalism will be the death of us. It can't be denied we're in trouble, and the government's policies are totally inadequate to solve anything. As for Corbyn's policies, I don't believe for a minute it was this that prevented him being elected Whilst I accept the inherent bias of the media in the UK and that Corbyn was targeted, two things spring to mind. 1) He was totally inept in rebuttal and did not exhibit the the intellectual dexterity required to think on his feet. 2) Perhaps because of (1) the majority did not believe him. It's no use blaming the electorate. That alone is symptomatic of the absolutist mindset and as history tells us, always ends in tears. |
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Post by yattongas on Aug 29, 2022 10:45:35 GMT
I don't think we'll see the death of capitalism, but maybe capitalism will be the death of us. It can't be denied we're in trouble, and the government's policies are totally inadequate to solve anything. As for Corbyn's policies, I don't believe for a minute it was this that prevented him being elected Whilst I accept the inherent bias of the media in the UK and that Corbyn was targeted, two things spring to mind. 1) He was totally inept in rebuttal and did not exhibit the the intellectual dexterity required to think on his feet. 2) Perhaps because of (1) the majority did not believe him. It's no use blaming the electorate. That alone is symptomatic of the absolutist mindset and as history tells us, always ends in tears. Agreed . Remember when it was PMQ’s and watching and waiting for Corbyn to bring up and attack the Tories for whatever was the issue at the time ? He’d start waffling on about something completely different and missing open goal after open goal . |
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Post by popuppirate on Aug 29, 2022 10:59:40 GMT
I don't think we'll see the death of capitalism, but maybe capitalism will be the death of us. It can't be denied we're in trouble, and the government's policies are totally inadequate to solve anything. As for Corbyn's policies, I don't believe for a minute it was this that prevented him being elected Whilst I accept the inherent bias of the media in the UK and that Corbyn was targeted, two things spring to mind. 1) He was totally inept in rebuttal and did not exhibit the the intellectual dexterity required to think on his feet. 2) Perhaps because of (1) the majority did not believe him. It's no use blaming the electorate. That alone is symptomatic of the absolutist mindset and as history tells us, always ends in tears. But I do ultimately blame the electorate, for the Brexit shambles and for voting for the Tories. The information required to make an informed choice is and was available and many chose to give more attention to deciding who should win in I'm a Celebrity. Now cue widespread suprise and alarm that Johnson tells lies, that Brexit doesn't make us great again and that the Tories care not for the poor and sick. |
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Post by baggins on Aug 29, 2022 11:51:48 GMT
Whilst I accept the inherent bias of the media in the UK and that Corbyn was targeted, two things spring to mind. 1) He was totally inept in rebuttal and did not exhibit the the intellectual dexterity required to think on his feet. 2) Perhaps because of (1) the majority did not believe him. It's no use blaming the electorate. That alone is symptomatic of the absolutist mindset and as history tells us, always ends in tears. Agreed . Remember when it was PMQ’s and watching and waiting for Corbyn to bring up and attack the Tories for whatever was the issue at the time ? He’d start waffling on about something completely different and missing open goal after open goal . My old House Master would describe Corbyn as a complete and utter wet. He'd be right. |
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Post by oldie on Aug 29, 2022 11:57:49 GMT
Whilst I accept the inherent bias of the media in the UK and that Corbyn was targeted, two things spring to mind. 1) He was totally inept in rebuttal and did not exhibit the the intellectual dexterity required to think on his feet. 2) Perhaps because of (1) the majority did not believe him. It's no use blaming the electorate. That alone is symptomatic of the absolutist mindset and as history tells us, always ends in tears. But I do ultimately blame the electorate, for the Brexit shambles and for voting for the Tories. The information required to make an informed choice is and was available and many chose to give more attention to deciding who should win in I'm a Celebrity. Now cue widespread suprise and alarm that Johnson tells lies, that Brexit doesn't make us great again and that the Tories care not for the poor and sick. Of course I agree with your analysis of the consequences of the recent national votes. But not the cause. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2022 13:32:46 GMT
The unfortunate fact is the majority of the electorate are thick and have short memories. All will be forgotten by the next election when the Tories whack a new slogan about booting those “bloody immigrants” out on the side of a bus.
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