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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 4, 2022 9:52:40 GMT
What were the benefits to leaving GoA ? Do you still believe in the below , what you said in oct 2021 ? Or do you now admit you were wrong ? Or can you explain in simple terms that I can understand….. as you promised . “Growth predicted to be faster than eurozone to 2025. There never was an argument in economic terms to stay. Paying to be a member of a club with which we have a large trade deficit makes no sense. Demand in an open market economy leaks to import market but is offset by exports. If it’s negative in terms of net demand, then it’s not a beneficial relationship. Most EU imports are substitutable. We can quite happily buy Jags instead of beamers. The city of London isn’t substitutable, it’s 2nd in terms of global competitiveness compared to Europe’s best shot which is Frankfurt at 17th and Amsterdam at 23rd. The idea that an Asian businessman, who speaks English, studied at Oxford and knows English contract law is going to delist in London and learn French law is laughable. “ Yes, it all stands. Do you think the low growth and high inflation has anything to do with leaving the eurozone? I think I may have said on this thread at some point that it would always be the case that the first economic bump would be exploited as some kind of evidence that it is brexit-related. There was no recession when we voted leave. There was no recession when we left. We have a recession coming now which has nothing to do with leaving the EU. You may feel you have your tabloid “gotcha” because finally, after 6 years from the vote when half a million jobs were supposed to be lost, in 12 months from now we might lose some jobs, but it’s really not the gotcha you want I’m afraid. To explain it in simple terms: You are a supplier of cars I am a supplier of fridges. You buy one fridge a year for £100 I buy 5 cars from you for £300,000 You want a deal which means that I face barriers to sell fridges to anyone else. The last 2 years have shown, unequivocally, that project fears predictions were all lies. There was no brexit recession. There were no 500k jobs lost. None of it happened. We now have an energy-led inflationary spiral which is present across all developed markets. Including the EU. Who currently have managed their energy supply so poorly, by switching off nuclear etc, that they might have to ration energy. Far from losing half a million jobs, we have the lowest unemployment on record. Not a job was lost when aggregated. Just a couple of points, we were never in the Eurozone anyway, we also have mismanaged our energy supplies with talk of rationing, Project Fear also applied to the Leave campaign and are those jobs comparable? |
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Post by gulfofaden on Nov 4, 2022 10:10:19 GMT
Yes, it all stands. Do you think the low growth and high inflation has anything to do with leaving the eurozone? I think I may have said on this thread at some point that it would always be the case that the first economic bump would be exploited as some kind of evidence that it is brexit-related. There was no recession when we voted leave. There was no recession when we left. We have a recession coming now which has nothing to do with leaving the EU. You may feel you have your tabloid “gotcha” because finally, after 6 years from the vote when half a million jobs were supposed to be lost, in 12 months from now we might lose some jobs, but it’s really not the gotcha you want I’m afraid. To explain it in simple terms: You are a supplier of cars I am a supplier of fridges. You buy one fridge a year for £100 I buy 5 cars from you for £300,000 You want a deal which means that I face barriers to sell fridges to anyone else. The last 2 years have shown, unequivocally, that project fears predictions were all lies. There was no brexit recession. There were no 500k jobs lost. None of it happened. We now have an energy-led inflationary spiral which is present across all developed markets. Including the EU. Who currently have managed their energy supply so poorly, by switching off nuclear etc, that they might have to ration energy. Far from losing half a million jobs, we have the lowest unemployment on record. Not a job was lost when aggregated. The unemployment rate in the UK, as expressed as a % of working age people is currently low because upwards of 2 million people have left the labour force, not because of economic growth. I believe it is important to understand the detail when quoting headline figures. You would think, with such a number of people leaving the labour market our productivity levels would increase. They have not, which points to another issue in our economy, the lack of investment. What has happened is that because of these two factors our output has flatlined. To exacerbate this, leaving the world's largest be single tariff free market has piled a very large administrative and cost burden on UK business. I laughed out loud when Rees-Mogg stated that the government would NOT be implementing the terms of the trade agreement (re tariffs) with the EU as it would be, in his words, "an act of national self harm". Really. And he said it with a straight face. For me, the point is, it was the idealogues that brought us "austerity" the same idealogues that lied and brought us Brexit, the same idealogues that imposed Johnson upon us and the same idealogues that brought us Truss. The same idealogues that doubled our national debt and wrecked our public services. How do you define ideologue? Of course, the other man’s an idealogie, whereas MY guy does so from good reason and sound principle. It’s quite hard to see leave characterised as idealogical when the EU is almost entirely about integration and waffly notions of holiding hands in camaraderie through Europe, blue face paint and gold stars. |
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Nov 4, 2022 10:32:01 GMT
Gulf ….. you should tune into James O’Brian on LBC this morning…. It’s all about Brexit . I know you admire him so you’ll enjoy 😉.
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Post by trevorgas on Nov 4, 2022 11:27:00 GMT
Emm that's interesting,wonder how long that plan will survive first contact,it's painfully obvious we have a labour shortage in some areas although the recession and rising unemployment may solve that. There has been talk of making it easier for our creative industries to work in the EU, at the moment musicians have to apply in each member state. Could be a way to loosen work permit requirements elsewhere but Labour's statement above is pretty unequivocal in terms of customs union, single market and the freedom of movement. We are still 2 years away from an election so time to modify plans. By the time much changes, it'll be 10 years since we voted to leave. That's 2 generations in Scottish politics. 😃 Agreed Haha re Saint Nicola,her economic plan post independent has been savaged by most economists and Senior Officials in Brussels have made it clear that "New " EU members have to have a clear pathway to the Euro. She needs to concentrate on domestic issues that the SNP have fooked up since being in power |
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 4, 2022 11:38:51 GMT
There has been talk of making it easier for our creative industries to work in the EU, at the moment musicians have to apply in each member state. Could be a way to loosen work permit requirements elsewhere but Labour's statement above is pretty unequivocal in terms of customs union, single market and the freedom of movement. We are still 2 years away from an election so time to modify plans. By the time much changes, it'll be 10 years since we voted to leave. That's 2 generations in Scottish politics. 😃 Agreed Haha re Saint Nicola,her economic plan post independent has been savaged by most economists and Senior Officials in Brussels have made it clear that "New " EU members have to have a clear pathway to the Euro. She needs to concentrate on domestic issues that the SNP have fooked up since being in power Don't mention ferries or frigates. 😇 |
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 4, 2022 12:44:17 GMT
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Post by warehamgas on Nov 4, 2022 14:04:08 GMT
Now I know why I rarely come on here to post! To be called childish and a bully. Wonderful And before you say I know nothing about you, you’re right I don’t but all I can do, and all anyone else can do, is read what you post and how you respond to others especially when they have different opinions. I suspect you like saying things to see the effect on others, winding them up in other words. And of course succeeding. 😉 I’m actually not trying to wind anyone up. I have a hard job relating to what you and several others have said. Essentially, it’s not a paper exercise and one should have empathy etc. To me that’s meaningless waffle. Of course, we want to help the poor, build a better world but HOW? If you want better services, how do you fund it? If you want X group to get Y, who pays for Y? Anyone can say a few buzz words and get applause. At some point you have to balance the books. It seems it’s not actually about solving issues. It’s moral auditing. You don’t seem to say the same thing about Yatton who has been incredibly provocative, bigoted and obnoxious. I suppose “it’s OK when we do it”. This entire thread is basically about 5 of you, emboldened by your anonymity and numbers, being incredibly rude and condescending. When someone stands their ground, your all up in arms about it. Just read back through this page. It is not me, nor anyone outside of the axis of weasel coming here and being disrespectful. I wasn’t - read through. I posted something with no insults and the usual “ tories tories tories barrage came in”.
I’ve not called anyone a tw@t. Saying someone is obnoxious and childish is not the same as calling them a “tw@t”. It’s been conflated several times, I can only conclude you don’t do detail (quel surprise for left wingers!) or this is just going down the same route as many before when it’s win at all costs. I exclude oldie from this because he had the decency to put a line under what’s happened and come to the table like a grown up. Wisdom doesn’t always come with age but I think that’s the case here. You still don’t get it do you? I don’t necessarily disagree with the content of what you’ve said, some but not all. Of course everything has to be paid for. But: - first it was a “paper exercise” now it’s “meaningless waffle.” Watching families struggle, children come to school hungry is not meaningless anything. It’s a human story that was playing out all over at the time of austerity. I think that’s important, I appreciate you may see it differently. - ‘basically about 5 of you emboldened by your anonymity...’ We’re all anonymous, you as well. I don’t know what your point is. And I don’t follow anyone, all on here are as anonymous as you are to me. You still did not show where I bullied you or name-called you. I plough my own furlough and don’t join groups or cliques. Seems to me you were generalising. Your problem with other posters is up to you, I tried to engage by talking about the human issues in that time of austerity. The issues beyond the facts and figures. You seem to have ignored that. - I don’t think I’ve mentioned “Tories” nor called anyone anything, yet you’ve just called me lots of things. And as for being classified as a left winger! That’s laughable to anyone who knew me. Why do you insist on pigeon-holing people? We all have different views and I don’t see it in political terms as you seem to. Looking at things in human terms is much more effective and lets you see the real picture. Anyway here, again, I’ve tried to engage and would appreciate an answer to where you’ve think I’ve name-called or bullied you. Seriously baffled by that claim. I would seriously appreciate an answer to that. UTG! |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 4, 2022 15:40:01 GMT
luckily for us , GoA knows better 🙄
Ps . I wonder if Carney has got an economics Degree ? 🤔
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Post by gulfofaden on Nov 4, 2022 16:14:40 GMT
luckily for us , GoA knows better 🙄 Ps . I wonder if Carney has got an economics Degree ? 🤔 Mark Carney candidly predicted a recession on the vote to leave the European Union. We haven’t had a recession since we voted to, or actually left, the European Union. Did you not do your research? |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 4, 2022 16:22:22 GMT
luckily for us , GoA knows better 🙄 Ps . I wonder if Carney has got an economics Degree ? 🤔 Mark Carney candidly predicted a recession on the vote to leave the European Union. We haven’t had a recession since we voted to, or actually left, the European Union. Did you not do your research? Haha ! You just can’t admit you were wrong can you ? Despite the mountain of evidence piling up you insist on sticking to your nonsense opinion . I admire your chutzpah 😂🙄 |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 4, 2022 19:44:33 GMT
😧
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Post by pirate on Nov 5, 2022 4:20:14 GMT
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Post by gulfofaden on Nov 5, 2022 5:33:20 GMT
Mark Carney candidly predicted a recession on the vote to leave the European Union. We haven’t had a recession since we voted to, or actually left, the European Union. Did you not do your research? Haha ! You just can’t admit you were wrong can you ? Despite the mountain of evidence piling up you insist on sticking to your nonsense opinion . I admire your chutzpah 😂🙄 Why don’t you post your own thoughts instead of reposting the thoughts of others? My mistake, it’s us leavers who got it all from the daily Mail, of course, whereas you most definitely didn’t source all your opinions from third hand appeals to authority. Current FX: GBP 1.14 to euro Inflation: Eurozone 10.7% U.K. 10.1% If, as Carney suggests, our rate rises are due to brexit, why is the ECB raising rates? Rate rises are due to 2 things. 1. The obvious elephant in the room of the energy crisis and supply side issue, which aren’t any worse in the U.K. by any meaningful measure 2. The fed being incredibly Hawkish meaning that to defend exchange rate that others need to follow suit. We live in a dollar based world. There are most certainly some disadvantage to leaving the EU but this is not one of them. I suppose posting things like rates is a “paper exercise” and can be swiftly countered by some blokes story of how he felt “sad” he has to get a visa for his holiday. |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 5, 2022 9:12:33 GMT
Haha ! You just can’t admit you were wrong can you ? Despite the mountain of evidence piling up you insist on sticking to your nonsense opinion . I admire your chutzpah 😂🙄 Why don’t you post your own thoughts instead of reposting the thoughts of others? My mistake, it’s us leavers who got it all from the daily Mail, of course, whereas you most definitely didn’t source all your opinions from third hand appeals to authority. Current FX: GBP 1.14 to euro Inflation: Eurozone 10.7% U.K. 10.1% If, as Carney suggests, our rate rises are due to brexit, why is the ECB raising rates? Rate rises are due to 2 things. 1. The obvious elephant in the room of the energy crisis and supply side issue, which aren’t any worse in the U.K. by any meaningful measure 2. The fed being incredibly Hawkish meaning that to defend exchange rate that others need to follow suit. We live in a dollar based world. There are most certainly some disadvantage to leaving the EU but this is not one of them. I suppose posting things like rates is a “paper exercise” and can be swiftly countered by some blokes story of how he felt “sad” he has to get a visa for his holiday. I’m playing with the grown ups now so thought I’d post up some evidence from experts who know a bit more than I do or you come to that 🙄 So you’re seriously coming on here saying you know more than the former Bank of England boss ? Blimey 😦…… oh to have your confidence 😂 Think I’ve made my opinion pretty clear right from the start on this subject , I said it was a monumentally stupid idea and would be harmful to the UK’s future prospects. I’m being proven right . You on the other hand are ……well…… you are just wrong . But you can’t admit it . This makes you look a fool . No offence meant obvs . UTG . |
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Post by gulfofaden on Nov 5, 2022 13:51:32 GMT
Why don’t you post your own thoughts instead of reposting the thoughts of others? My mistake, it’s us leavers who got it all from the daily Mail, of course, whereas you most definitely didn’t source all your opinions from third hand appeals to authority. Current FX: GBP 1.14 to euro Inflation: Eurozone 10.7% U.K. 10.1% If, as Carney suggests, our rate rises are due to brexit, why is the ECB raising rates? Rate rises are due to 2 things. 1. The obvious elephant in the room of the energy crisis and supply side issue, which aren’t any worse in the U.K. by any meaningful measure 2. The fed being incredibly Hawkish meaning that to defend exchange rate that others need to follow suit. We live in a dollar based world. There are most certainly some disadvantage to leaving the EU but this is not one of them. I suppose posting things like rates is a “paper exercise” and can be swiftly countered by some blokes story of how he felt “sad” he has to get a visa for his holiday. I’m playing with the grown ups now so thought I’d post up some evidence from experts who know a bit more than I do or you come to that 🙄 So you’re seriously coming on here saying you know more than the former Bank of England boss ? Blimey 😦…… oh to have your confidence 😂 Think I’ve made my opinion pretty clear right from the start on this subject , I said it was a monumentally stupid idea and would be harmful to the UK’s future prospects. I’m being proven right . You on the other hand are ……well…… you are just wrong . But you can’t admit it . This makes you look a fool . No offence meant obvs . UTG . You can barely string a sentence together, and all you’ve got is posting memes and links, and you don’t have the self awareness to realise calling anyone a fool is just, as you would put, lol bruv 🤣🤣🤣😉😉😉 |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 5, 2022 16:23:43 GMT
Oh look , he’s biting again 🙄😂
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 8, 2022 20:45:42 GMT
Williamson goes. About time, should never have been appointed let alone sacked before he resigned.
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Post by Gassy on Nov 8, 2022 23:04:34 GMT
Taking his other incidents aside, I have to say I don’t think the text chain was actually that bad.
I’ve vented a lot worse at work on multiple occasions tbh
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Post by warehamgas on Nov 8, 2022 23:15:51 GMT
Williamson goes. About time, should never have been appointed let alone sacked before he resigned. Well I suppose we should be glad that when Sunak said his government would be accountable he was accurate. Williamson has been found out and has walked/ been sacked / left. Good riddance. What an excuse for a politician, couldn’t keep his mouth closed or keep security secrets as the Defence Secretary, was the most incompetent Educational Secretary that I can remember and now proved to be a bully to the people he works with. Just when you thought things were quietening down...... |
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 8, 2022 23:39:48 GMT
Williamson goes. About time, should never have been appointed let alone sacked before he resigned. Well I suppose we should be glad that when Sunak said his government would be accountable he was accurate. Williamson has been found out and has walked/ been sacked / left. Good riddance. What an excuse for a politician, couldn’t keep his mouth closed or keep security secrets as the Defence Secretary, was the most incompetent Educational Secretary that I can remember and now proved to be a bully to the people he works with. Just when you thought things were quietening down...... He was one who knew where the skeletons were being a former Chief Whip. In other news I see 'HMS Boris' has been effectively shelved, only cost £25m in initial designs, apparently. |
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