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Post by oldie on Oct 27, 2021 9:20:22 GMT
To be fair the only Minister I can see who resigned because they leaked part of the Budget before it was announced in Parliament was in 1947... ...yes it's done all the time by both sides when they are in power. In fact it's done by governments the world over. Probably because this (like so many other parliamentary rules) are decades out of date..... Yes. But I do think there is a difference between unwanted leaks and a deliberate drip feed in order to manipulate media headlines, perhaps as a tactic of deflection. Which I believe is the case with this Government.
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Post by oldie on Oct 27, 2021 10:53:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2021 11:34:07 GMT
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Post by oldie on Oct 28, 2021 11:26:13 GMT
Utterly amazing to witness a Tory Party enacting big Government tax, borrow and spend policies. This is not classic Keyenasian policy though, we are entering a period of recovery and expansion. So this has the potential to add to already existing inflationary pressure. Unless of course they know something we do not. For example their own Office of Budget Responsibility who stated over the last day or so that the economic impact of Brexit would be double that of Covid. (-4% compared to -2% downward pressure on GDP))
Who would have thought it.😂
Mind you they might be looking in the rear view mirror and seeing the damage their policies have inflicted since 2010 (It was all about the debt people cried, so let's double it).
Still the Minister for the 18th Century has developed his own anti covid strategy, based upon a "convivial spirit".
That's got to be right, surely?
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Post by yattongas on Oct 28, 2021 11:31:12 GMT
Utterly amazing to witness a Tory Party enacting big Government tax, borrow and spend policies. This is not classic Keyenasian policy though, we are entering a period of recovery and expansion. So this has the potential to add to already existing inflationary pressure. Unless of course they know something we do not. For example their own Office of Budget Responsibility who stated over the last day or so that the economic impact of Brexit would be double that of Covid. (-4% compared to -2% downward pressure on GDP)) Who would have thought it.😂 Mind you they might be looking in the rear view mirror and seeing the damage their policies have inflicted since 2010 (It was all about the debt people cried, so let's double it). Still the Minister for the 18th Century has developed his own anti covid strategy, based upon a "convivial spirit". That's got to be right, surely? We’ve also gotta pay back that 37 billion we spent on the test & trace ….. to have the most deaths and cases in the world comparatively ( apart from a few crackpot countries , Brazil , Trumps USA etc ) Go Boris ! 🇬🇧
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Post by yattongas on Oct 28, 2021 14:06:21 GMT
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stuart1974
Proper Gas
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 28, 2021 19:31:33 GMT
Won't lower standards, eh!?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2021 19:47:47 GMT
Won't lower standards, eh!? Failed economy, failed state and failed ecosystem... At least they are consistent
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Post by yattongas on Oct 28, 2021 20:45:27 GMT
This is actually a good thing , not sure why but I’m sure a Brexit type can explain 💩
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Post by Gassy on Oct 29, 2021 17:32:53 GMT
This is actually a good thing , not sure why but I’m sure a Brexit type can explain 💩 It's pretty obvious.. If companies are allowed to start dumping whatever they want wherever they want without punishment, this only attracts more corporations into the UK, providing more jobs and a better economy. This is a massive win, think big.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Oct 29, 2021 17:50:38 GMT
This is actually a good thing , not sure why but I’m sure a Brexit type can explain 💩 It's pretty obvious.. If companies are allowed to start dumping whatever they want wherever they want without punishment, this only attracts more corporations into the UK, providing more jobs and a better economy. This is a massive win, think big. exactly right. By creating a competitive market we can attract bigger and nuttier dumps in the future. It will give the fishermen something to cheer about too as they'll never go home with empty nets again.
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Post by yattongas on Oct 29, 2021 17:53:30 GMT
Thanks guys .
Up the Brexit Uk 🇬🇧 💩 !
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Oct 29, 2021 17:55:10 GMT
Thanks guys . Up the Brexit Uk 🇬🇧 💩 ! Who doesn't love a bit of Tur(d)bot, (s)Catfish or Ca<>rp ?
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Post by supergas on Nov 3, 2021 11:23:19 GMT
To be fair the only Minister I can see who resigned because they leaked part of the Budget before it was announced in Parliament was in 1947... ...yes it's done all the time by both sides when they are in power. In fact it's done by governments the world over. Probably because this (like so many other parliamentary rules) are decades out of date..... Yes. But I do think there is a difference between unwanted leaks and a deliberate drip feed in order to manipulate media headlines, perhaps as a tactic of deflection. Which I believe is the case with this Government. ....but the real question is what is wrong with that? The Budget speech happens on one day, there are several days of discussions in the Commons before it's voted on... ...what's the benefit in keeping it all a secret until lunchtime on a specific day...?
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Post by supergas on Nov 3, 2021 11:39:08 GMT
Dig a bit deeper - there are plenty more relevant facts suggesting at best that's an ill-informed opinion.... Firstly no one is disputing there was a breach of the rules. He was paid by two companies for raising two issues in Parliament/with Ministers.... ....what you won't hear in most reports is what those issues were were....firstly that there was a dangerous amount of antibiotics in a variety of milk that was being widely sold in the UK and secondly that carcinogenic ham was being marketed to young people (something to do with false colours added). Following his interventions, both problems were addressed...at best saving lives and at worst improving food standards.... If anyone else (and by that I mean anyone from another party) had raised and helped to solve these issues they would be being lauded, not investigated in an entirely unprofessional and potentially illegal way - a witch-hunt investigation that may or may not have been a factor in his wife committing suicide.... ...it's a strong accusation to link those two, but when you get into the details you start to understand why. There is plenty of suggestions that Kathryn Stone (OBE, the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards) has completely botched the investigation and had already made her mind up before all the evidence was presented....potentially because she has no legal background.... She started her investigation two years ago. It was only 12 months after she started investigating him that she made her first contact with him (........she first contacted the accused 12 months after opening the investigation against him ?!?) and only via email. She sent questions, he answered them. With no reply to thank him for his replies or ask follow-up questions she instead sent a different series of questions. She then published her first summary/memorandum *before* calling any witnesses and also later admitting to the committee "...I had decided Mr Paterson had breached the rules by the time I had sent him my first memorandum...." - just to clarify, that is like a judge reaching a verdict without bothering to hear the case for the defense..... So without hearing the case for the defense, without any cross examination, without any independent witnesses she had decided he was guilty.... Mr Paterson was finally allowed to present her with witnesses (experts including the Chief Veterinary Officer and Ministers present at the key meetings on both issues). He provided 17 witness statements....how many of those experts did Kathryn Stone contact to ask questions of, to cross-examine, to learn more about the issues? None. There is no mechanism by which Mr Paterson can appeal against her verdict. All for something most MPs would be proud of doing....
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Post by supergas on Nov 3, 2021 11:52:14 GMT
Utterly amazing to witness a Tory Party enacting big Government tax, borrow and spend policies. This is not classic Keyenasian policy though, we are entering a period of recovery and expansion. So this has the potential to add to already existing inflationary pressure. Unless of course they know something we do not. For example their own Office of Budget Responsibility who stated over the last day or so that the economic impact of Brexit would be double that of Covid. (-4% compared to -2% downward pressure on GDP)) Who would have thought it.😂 Mind you they might be looking in the rear view mirror and seeing the damage their policies have inflicted since 2010 (It was all about the debt people cried, so let's double it). Still the Minister for the 18th Century has developed his own anti covid strategy, based upon a "convivial spirit". That's got to be right, surely? We’ve also gotta pay back that 37 billion we spent on the test & trace ….. to have the most deaths and cases in the world comparatively ( apart from a few crackpot countries , Brazil , Trumps USA etc ) Go Boris ! 🇬🇧 No, test and trace has not cost 37 billion... ....and comparatively (deaths per head of population) the UK is not just behind crackpot countries, unless you think EU members like Italy, Bulgaria, Croatia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Slovakia, Romania, and Belgium are "...crackpot..."
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2021 12:44:22 GMT
Dig a bit deeper - there are plenty more relevant facts suggesting at best that's an ill-informed opinion.... Firstly no one is disputing there was a breach of the rules. He was paid by two companies for raising two issues in Parliament/with Ministers.... ....what you won't hear in most reports is what those issues were were....firstly that there was a dangerous amount of antibiotics in a variety of milk that was being widely sold in the UK and secondly that carcinogenic ham was being marketed to young people (something to do with false colours added). Following his interventions, both problems were addressed...at best saving lives and at worst improving food standards.... If anyone else (and by that I mean anyone from another party) had raised and helped to solve these issues they would be being lauded, not investigated in an entirely unprofessional and potentially illegal way - a witch-hunt investigation that may or may not have been a factor in his wife committing suicide.... ...it's a strong accusation to link those two, but when you get into the details you start to understand why. There is plenty of suggestions that Kathryn Stone (OBE, the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards) has completely botched the investigation and had already made her mind up before all the evidence was presented....potentially because she has no legal background.... She started her investigation two years ago. It was only 12 months after she started investigating him that she made her first contact with him (........she first contacted the accused 12 months after opening the investigation against him ?!?) and only via email. She sent questions, he answered them. With no reply to thank him for his replies or ask follow-up questions she instead sent a different series of questions. She then published her first summary/memorandum *before* calling any witnesses and also later admitting to the committee "...I had decided Mr Paterson had breached the rules by the time I had sent him my first memorandum...." - just to clarify, that is like a judge reaching a verdict without bothering to hear the case for the defense..... So without hearing the case for the defense, without any cross examination, without any independent witnesses she had decided he was guilty.... Mr Paterson was finally allowed to present her with witnesses (experts including the Chief Veterinary Officer and Ministers present at the key meetings on both issues). He provided 17 witness statements....how many of those experts did Kathryn Stone contact to ask questions of, to cross-examine, to learn more about the issues? None. There is no mechanism by which Mr Paterson can appeal against her verdict. All for something most MPs would be proud of doing.... What did the daily mail say regarding the jockey clubs involvement?
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Post by yattongas on Nov 3, 2021 13:37:45 GMT
We’ve also gotta pay back that 37 billion we spent on the test & trace ….. to have the most deaths and cases in the world comparatively ( apart from a few crackpot countries , Brazil , Trumps USA etc ) Go Boris ! 🇬🇧 No, test and trace has not cost 37 billion... ....and comparatively (deaths per head of population) the UK is not just behind crackpot countries, unless you think EU members like Italy, Bulgaria, Croatia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Slovakia, Romania, and Belgium are "...crackpot..." Sorry , you must be right and the parliament committee must be wrong . Forgive me 🙄 committees.parliament.uk/committee/127/public-accounts-committee/news/150988/unimaginable-cost-of-test-trace-failed-to-deliver-central-promise-of-averting-another-lockdown/
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Post by oldie on Nov 3, 2021 13:58:38 GMT
Yes. But I do think there is a difference between unwanted leaks and a deliberate drip feed in order to manipulate media headlines, perhaps as a tactic of deflection. Which I believe is the case with this Government. ....but the real question is what is wrong with that? The Budget speech happens on one day, there are several days of discussions in the Commons before it's voted on... ...what's the benefit in keeping it all a secret until lunchtime on a specific day...? Because nobody can accurately debate only bits of a strategic direction. You have to understand the context of decisions. It seems to me that partial information is leaked in order to guage (partially) informed opinion, in order to allow for changes if headwind is detected. In this way no real debate occurs.
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Post by yattongas on Nov 3, 2021 15:17:42 GMT
Dig a bit deeper - there are plenty more relevant facts suggesting at best that's an ill-informed opinion.... Firstly no one is disputing there was a breach of the rules. He was paid by two companies for raising two issues in Parliament/with Ministers.... ....what you won't hear in most reports is what those issues were were....firstly that there was a dangerous amount of antibiotics in a variety of milk that was being widely sold in the UK and secondly that carcinogenic ham was being marketed to young people (something to do with false colours added). Following his interventions, both problems were addressed...at best saving lives and at worst improving food standards.... If anyone else (and by that I mean anyone from another party) had raised and helped to solve these issues they would be being lauded, not investigated in an entirely unprofessional and potentially illegal way - a witch-hunt investigation that may or may not have been a factor in his wife committing suicide.... ...it's a strong accusation to link those two, but when you get into the details you start to understand why. There is plenty of suggestions that Kathryn Stone (OBE, the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards) has completely botched the investigation and had already made her mind up before all the evidence was presented....potentially because she has no legal background.... She started her investigation two years ago. It was only 12 months after she started investigating him that she made her first contact with him (........she first contacted the accused 12 months after opening the investigation against him ?!?) and only via email. She sent questions, he answered them. With no reply to thank him for his replies or ask follow-up questions she instead sent a different series of questions. She then published her first summary/memorandum *before* calling any witnesses and also later admitting to the committee "...I had decided Mr Paterson had breached the rules by the time I had sent him my first memorandum...." - just to clarify, that is like a judge reaching a verdict without bothering to hear the case for the defense..... So without hearing the case for the defense, without any cross examination, without any independent witnesses she had decided he was guilty.... Mr Paterson was finally allowed to present her with witnesses (experts including the Chief Veterinary Officer and Ministers present at the key meetings on both issues). He provided 17 witness statements....how many of those experts did Kathryn Stone contact to ask questions of, to cross-examine, to learn more about the issues? None. There is no mechanism by which Mr Paterson can appeal against her verdict. All for something most MPs would be proud of doing.... And here ends the party political advert for the Conservative party 🙄 He was found guilty by an independent panel and by a select committee of MPs from all parties.
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