|
Post by gasincider on Jun 20, 2020 7:06:53 GMT
Amid all the euphoria over yesterday's statements by Wael and the club, it's time to take stock over where we are as a football club.
Our club today, in reality, is in the same place as it was yesterday. If there is one item of forward movement, it is that the training ground is under way at last. My only question regarding the Colony, was ' how will this all be paid for?'
Some on here will understand that the capitalisation of the debt (approx £18m) is largely a paper exercise. So ask yourself, why is this being done now. There is nowt wrong in it, but it's the rationale behind it that we need to come to terms with.
Outwardly, clearing the debt makes us far more attractive to investors. Again nothing wrong with that. Some on here think Wael has just splashed out £18m. He hasn't.
Wael has always said he was he was committed to the club, which is why when his family recently considered selling to the people who wish to build the stadium at the fruit market, he stood firmly and said he wanted to retain the club. I don't know if Wael has inherited vast wealth on the sad loss of his father, but it's easy to misconstrue the two.
So my take on all this is follows:-
Going back to paragraph 2, again I ask, how are we paying for the Colony redevelopment? I believe the total initial outlay is approx £2m.
Now that 'the debt' has been cleared, remember that old chstnut THE CHARGE ON THE MEM? Now that there is no debt, presumably the charge has been satisfied, and can now be removed.
So what are the consequences of that? Well, it makes it far easier for raising capital against the value of the Mem for a start. You see, it's one thing to want to run a football club, but it's another to be mad enough to want to spend millions doing it. If Wael doesn't have the money that many on here seem to think he has, this is one way of getting enough funding to keep us going for a while. Longer term? Well that depends how long the money lasts.
I remember our previous owner putting us in the proverbial when he borrowed money from MSP to fund the club. But come the day of reckoning, he couldn't pay it back and had to sell the club. I hope this isn't about to happen again.
As i sày, I hope that Wael will be very careful with whatever happens next, because I doubt we will find a white knight to rescue us.
As for the new stadium? The only question is (once again) who will pay for it? Well the developer who wants to build the stadium at the Fruit Market has never wanted to own the club, because he is a property man. Is he prepared to build the stadium? As far as I know the answer is yes. But the Mem is a precondition of that. He wants to redevelop it for housing. So to get us out he would build the new stadium, and lease it to us.
But, a friend who works at the Fruit Market, told me recently that according to an email sent to the management there, it's BRISTOL ROVERS who have bought the site, but it will take 5 to 10 years to resettle the businesses there and build the stadium. It could easily be the same guy who has bought it, and assuming he has done a deal with Wael, will build it and then redevelop the Mem.
Will he wait up to 10 years to get his money back? I suppose he could move us elsewhere in the meantime to speed up his returns. I hope not.
So in summation, training ground, brilliant but where is the money coming from?
Clearing the charge on the Mem allows for capital raising to enable the club to continue, though like everyone else I hope this is not the case.
New stadium, yes it's finally happening, but what sort of deal will the club get to use it ? The annual rental at any reasonable level (please no more than about £1m per year) is most likely sustainable as long as we get to keep all the income the stadium generates. A big if.
As they say, follow the money, and importantly, follow what happens at Companies house with regard to removal of one charge, and a possible insertion of another.
It all brings two old old sayings to mind, 'if it sounds to good to be true, it usually is', and 'it's the hope that kills you'. As with everyone else on here, I hope Wael has got this nailed, and that we have a future to look forward to. I just hope he doesn't have to go borrowing money from dodgy investors that may put our whole future at risk.
|
|
|
Post by Henbury Gas on Jun 20, 2020 7:16:04 GMT
Funniest post i've read for a long time - well done !
|
|
|
Post by gasincider on Jun 20, 2020 7:18:17 GMT
Now try reading it and say why
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 20, 2020 7:21:24 GMT
Why do you hate Wael so much?
|
|
|
Post by Antonio Fargas on Jun 20, 2020 7:23:44 GMT
Thing is, some posters were using the debt to criticise the owners and insist that they were going to asset strip and leave us high and dry, some people were pretty confident they had the club's best interests at heart and were going to cover the debt.
If you were in group B then this really doesn't make that much difference to how you view that. If you were in group A, however then surely this makes all the difference and should put your mind at rest.
If you were in Group A and this doesn't make any difference to your view, then istm pretty clear that you just hate our owners and will use any reason to criticise them.
|
|
|
Post by gasincider on Jun 20, 2020 7:31:28 GMT
Hugo, where do I express hatred of Wael? If you can't be more sensible when I believe I'm asking questions that are fair minded don't bother. If you care about our club, then I think it's fair to ask the above. Mind you, I fully expect to get sh** from people who haven't read and try to answer the above, so it doesn't matter. I just hope that Wael is not falling into the same trap that Nick Higgs did. If he doesn't, then this has to be the most positive news for a generation.
As for Antonios response, I'm not sure how questions like I have raised can possibly be put into boxes as he suggests.
I'm trying to ask constructive questions, (for a change?) I can't be bothered with answering all the crap I'll get, but will respond to constructive answers. I don't think I've suggested anything controversial, I'm just asking what would be asked at an AGM (remember those).
|
|
|
Post by giff on Jun 20, 2020 7:34:10 GMT
Aren't all football clubs run this way? All clubs owe something to someone whether it be a billionaire owner or a consortium, even Barcelona have a debt The way I see it is that a developer is buying a huge piece of land at St Phillips, which by the way I have a couple of industrial units on Albert Rd , as part of the redevelopment a stadium is being built, which will be sold , leased to Bristol Rovers , I think sold !! The money coming from the sale of the Mem, and some shares of the club going to the developers. if it is sold to the Rovers then Wael owns a nice new Stadium other than a run down Mem. if it's leased to the Rovers , then Wael gets his money back
|
|
|
Post by Henbury Gas on Jun 20, 2020 7:38:30 GMT
Now try reading it and say why The five to Ten years bit is the funnest thing i've ever read on here
|
|
|
Post by daniel300380 on Jun 20, 2020 7:40:07 GMT
Now try reading it and say why Because you have tried to put a negative slant on everything, even the clearing of the debt. He didn't put £18 million in yesterday, however, that money has been invested over time by this board and the previous board. So it is still a great thing and show's commitment. Obviously what happens now is important, that's the same for every club. But right now we are in a stronger position than we ever have been. So why not enjoy that, instead of trying to twist it. Even if he takes finance from elsewhere, we are still strong currently. Lansdowne took out over £40 million in loans over a short period to get things done quickly. Wael hasn't even done that yet, but he's getting stick for it. Your post is all about what ifs. What if we lease it for too much, what if we take out bank loans and can't pay them. That's always going to be the case. Let's just enjoy being in our strongest position ever, without worrying about what might never happen 😂
|
|
|
Post by gashead333 on Jun 20, 2020 7:43:28 GMT
There is already a thread relevant to this subject so can it be merged? Absolutely no need to start a new thread, just saying
|
|
|
Post by Antonio Fargas on Jun 20, 2020 7:46:07 GMT
As for Antonios response, I'm not sure how questions like I have raised can possibly be put into boxes as he suggests. I'm trying to ask constructive questions, (for a change?) Because, you've changed your tune. If you say, it's this debt, we're not getting a stadium or a training ground and it's perfectly ok to rent a stadium (which is why the UWE shows Wael had no intention of getting a stadium) and that's why I'm worried about the future under Wael, over and over again, for three years, then after you are essentially refuted on all these things you say, well, yeah it's not about this debt, and we are getting a stadium, and we are getting a training ground, and we can rent the stadium, but I'm really worried about the future under Wael, then it just looks like you're determined to undermine him, rather than base it on what's happening. Im not disputing what you said, which looks fine, although mostly just about your hopes and fears, and not as factual as you seem to be suggesting, I'm pointing out that in order to do this week's whine, you had to basically turn about everything you've ever said, and yet there's absolutely no acknowledgement of this. Of course you can be worried about the future of our club, most of us are most of the time, but there's nothing to base your fears on atm, I would suggest, and you're trying too hard to find stuff, especially in the wake of what everyone agrees is good news.
|
|
|
Post by Slide away on Jun 20, 2020 8:10:40 GMT
2 things- 1) I bet you were seething yesterday 2) As a man with ITK calibre that you have, I cant believe you didnt know this was happening!
|
|
|
Post by bluegas on Jun 20, 2020 8:16:34 GMT
2 things- 1) I bet you were seething yesterday 2) As a man with ITK calibre that you have, I cant believe you didnt know this was happening! Number 2 is by far the best one.
|
|
|
Post by Jomo on Jun 20, 2020 8:17:36 GMT
I was wondering when you would pop up.
Maybe in honour of the latest developments and the fact that unfortunately for you, you weren't able to come on here and show us all how important you are, you should change your username to gasoutcider?
|
|
|
Post by alanrg on Jun 20, 2020 8:22:25 GMT
More doom and gloom from a Itk get a life very sad
|
|
|
Post by chilly1883 on Jun 20, 2020 8:22:31 GMT
Who’s up for a massive slice of humble pie! 😂
|
|
|
Post by Charlton Hayes Gas on Jun 20, 2020 8:24:11 GMT
I would be less inclined to agree with Hugo if this was the first outburst/statement against Wael and the current board, however this is just one of many statements, all with the intention of undermining and belittling Wael because your friends from the SC were removed from the board for leaking stories.
Now I don’t believe you personally hate the man, but your obsession with wanting the man to fail at every hurdle and constant negativity, even with the announcement yesterday that the club has gone debt free just confirms it fully for me. I mean below is just a very small sample of the kind of language and belittling you have stated over the past few months.
Jan 16th - How anyone truly believes that our club will progress under the current regime staggers me. I seem to recall the fantasy prediction that we would get millions for JCH , Kilgore etc and our money troubles would disappear.
It seems more realistic to say we are up sh*t creek without a paddle, we have no one left on the board reassuring us that all is well. In fact the silence truly is deafening.
Mar 29 - We desperately need new owners. I've seen some on here saying how nice Wael is. Well, even if you believe it, I fail to see how that makes him a good sensible owner.
April 3rd - Some people are worried about stating what they know. As far as I am concerned, if things carry on as they are we won't have a club to support. So stop the hand wringing, and wake up before it's too late.
I think it’s very clear to me that whatever Wael does, you will never be satisfied with, and if really have nothing positive to say, especially after yesterday’s news I suggest you say nothing at all.
|
|
|
Post by oldgas on Jun 20, 2020 8:26:23 GMT
Hugo, where do I express hatred of Wael? If you can't be more sensible when I believe I'm asking questions that are fair minded don't bother. If you care about our club, then I think it's fair to ask the above. Mind you, I fully expect to get sh** from people who haven't read and try to answer the above, so it doesn't matter. I just hope that Wael is not falling into the same trap that Nick Higgs did. If he doesn't, then this has to be the most positive news for a generation. As for Antonios response, I'm not sure how questions like I have raised can possibly be put into boxes as he suggests. I'm trying to ask constructive questions, (for a change?) I can't be bothered with answering all the crap I'll get, but will respond to constructive answers. I don't think I've suggested anything controversial, I'm just asking what would be asked at an AGM (remember those). Can you answer this please, and it is asked in all seriousness: Have you lost your source of information from within or very close to the boardroom?
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 20, 2020 8:28:44 GMT
Hugo, where do I express hatred of Wael? If you can't be more sensible when I believe I'm asking questions that are fair minded don't bother. If you care about our club, then I think it's fair to ask the above. Mind you, I fully expect to get sh** from people who haven't read and try to answer the above, so it doesn't matter. I just hope that Wael is not falling into the same trap that Nick Higgs did. If he doesn't, then this has to be the most positive news for a generation. As for Antonios response, I'm not sure how questions like I have raised can possibly be put into boxes as he suggests. I'm trying to ask constructive questions, (for a change?) I can't be bothered with answering all the crap I'll get, but will respond to constructive answers. I don't think I've suggested anything controversial, I'm just asking what would be asked at an AGM (remember those). As others have said, you have twisted yourself round in circles to try to spin everything into a negative. AF has already pointed out that you seem happy to just flip your position in order to continue to spin anything WAQ does into a negative. There is so much negative supposition in your OP and "what ifs" it's hard to take you seriously. I did have little chuckle at your White Knight comment. Surely with his actions Wael IS that white knight but you cant bring yourself to say anything positive, praise or thank him in any way. You even started a new thread just to draw maximum attention to yet another anti WAQ post rather than in the other thread dealing with it. I understand that it's ok to have some doubts and worries but I fail to see a single bad thing that Wael has done for BRFC during his tenure that hasnt been put right. Sure, hes made mistakes but in my opinion he has been hampered by family issues, but even more criminally, he has been hampered by people at the club in everything he has tried to do. So, yeah. To me it does appear that you hate WAQ for some unknown reason.
|
|
|
Post by chilly1883 on Jun 20, 2020 8:30:09 GMT
Amid all the euphoria over yesterday's statements by Wael and the club, it's time to take stock over where we are as a football club. Our club today, in reality, is in the same place as it was yesterday. If there is one item of forward movement, it is that the training ground is under way at last. My only question regarding the Colony, was ' how will this all be paid for?' Some on here will understand that the capitalisation of the debt (approx £18m) is largely a paper exercise. So ask yourself, why is this being done now. There is nowt wrong in it, but it's the rationale behind it that we need to come to terms with. Outwardly, clearing the debt makes us far more attractive to investors. Again nothing wrong with that. Some on here think Wael has just splashed out £18m. He hasn't. Wael has always said he was he was committed to the club, which is why when his family recently considered selling to the people who wish to build the stadium at the fruit market, he stood firmly and said he wanted to retain the club. I don't know if Wael has inherited vast wealth on the sad loss of his father, but it's easy to misconstrue the two. So my take on all this is follows:- Going back to paragraph 2, again I ask, how are we paying for the Colony redevelopment? I believe the total initial outlay is approx £2m. Now that 'the debt' has been cleared, remember that old chstnut THE CHARGE ON THE MEM? Now that there is no debt, presumably the charge has been satisfied, and can now be removed. So what are the consequences of that? Well, it makes it far easier for raising capital against the value of the Mem for a start. You see, it's one thing to want to run a football club, but it's another to be mad enough to want to spend millions doing it. If Wael doesn't have the money that many on here seem to think he has, this is one way of getting enough funding to keep us going for a while. Longer term? Well that depends how long the money lasts. I remember our previous owner putting us in the proverbial when he borrowed money from MSP to fund the club. But come the day of reckoning, he couldn't pay it back and had to sell the club. I hope this isn't about to happen again. As i sày, I hope that Wael will be very careful with whatever happens next, because I doubt we will find a white knight to rescue us. As for the new stadium? The only question is (once again) who will pay for it? Well the developer who wants to build the stadium at the Fruit Market has never wanted to own the club, because he is a property man. Is he prepared to build the stadium? As far as I know the answer is yes. But the Mem is a precondition of that. He wants to redevelop it for housing. So to get us out he would build the new stadium, and lease it to us. But, a friend who works at the Fruit Market, told me recently that according to an email sent to the management there, it's BRISTOL ROVERS who have bought the site, but it will take 5 to 10 years to resettle the businesses there and build the stadium. It could easily be the same guy who has bought it, and assuming he has done a deal with Wael, will build it and then redevelop the Mem. Will he wait up to 10 years to get his money back? I suppose he could move us elsewhere in the meantime to speed up his returns. I hope not. So in summation, training ground, brilliant but where is the money coming from? Clearing the charge on the Mem allows for capital raising to enable the club to continue, though like everyone else I hope this is not the case. New stadium, yes it's finally happening, but what sort of deal will the club get to use it ? The annual rental at any reasonable level (please no more than about £1m per year) is most likely sustainable as long as we get to keep all the income the stadium generates. A big if. As they say, follow the money, and importantly, follow what happens at Companies house with regard to removal of one charge, and a possible insertion of another. It all brings two old old sayings to mind, 'if it sounds to good to be true, it usually is', and 'it's the hope that kills you'. As with everyone else on here, I hope Wael has got this nailed, and that we have a future to look forward to. I just hope he doesn't have to go borrowing money from dodgy investors that may put our whole future at risk. I enjoyed reading your thoughts, but I had visions of you, with your ground down teeth, genuinely not enjoying the fact, that Wael has made us pretty much debt free! For the moment 👍🏽
|
|