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Post by slam on Jun 21, 2020 14:58:07 GMT
Another question, has anyone from this forum replied to Wael's letter, either personally or on behalf of FFSC? If not, would you like me to prepare a draft on behalf of us all, to express the seemingly overwhelming support to his latest statement - please note that writing letters by committee is not easy - but I think someone should make some sort of response. Good idea. Will you do it? If you are happy with me doing it, I will prepare a draft letter and post the draft on this thread. Anyone can suggest amendments and hopefully we will end up with something that we can all agree upon and send to wael (although I am not sure how we get it to him at this stage - maybe someone has his contact details).
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Post by azulyblanco on Jun 21, 2020 15:13:08 GMT
slam Good luck with the letter!
Unfortunately, your suggestion that "Anyone can suggest amendments..." might cause you some aggro from closet SC members - I sincerely hope not.
Best wishes
David UTG!
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Jun 21, 2020 15:14:40 GMT
Good idea. Will you do it? If you are happy with me doing it, I will prepare a draft letter and post the draft on this thread. Anyone can suggest amendments and hopefully we will end up with something that we can all agree upon and send to wael (although I am not sure how we get it to him at this stage - maybe someone has his contact details). I would try to make a letter that people can sign up to, or maybe take some broad direction, but if you want to amend it to everyone's specs you'll be there forever.
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Post by rememberhalifax on Jun 21, 2020 15:18:04 GMT
Been a member of S/C for some years, seemed ,by the very nature of the title, a natural thing to do. We live in vastly different times from the days of Gordon Bennet's sponsored walks and the like and imho the S/C has lost sight of its purpose. I believe it has confused 'supporting the club' with 'trying to run the club' ,the two roles are vastly different and require very different skills , the S/C should leave the business side of running a club to those who understand and have the relevant skills, and concentrate all there efforts in promoting the club in a positive manner in the community as well as help the club raise funds with the various matchday and other commercial activities. There are many folk who do this without seeking plaudits for there efforts and the danger only comes when individuals try to cross the line from 'helping and supporting to running and controlling, its fine to have fans represented in the board room but don't confuse that honour with freedom to dictate to the owners and the people who put the money up. Decent owners, which i believe we have, will listen to fans , but that does not mean they can or will have to encompass every thing that is put to them, to sum up there may still be a role for the S/C ,but remember what your purpose is ,the clue is in the title, and stop trying to over state your importance, one simple example ,the club has a player of the year award , why does the S/c feel it has to have another one? its a nonsense and only serves as an ego boost to the promoters. Its time for change and i would suggest a good place to start would be an apology to Wael and a request to start from scratch ,may be with different personnel, and i for one will not renew if the s/c feel unable to oblige, up the Rovers!
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Post by yattongas on Jun 21, 2020 15:27:29 GMT
I'm a member, purely for the reason of getting priority to away tickets. And a Helpline member too. However, I do forget that I'm a member from one year to the next, as I receive absolutely no communication from the SC at all. A letter with your card in, and then nothing, until asking for your money next year. No letters, emails, texts, messages, invitations to meetings, nothing at all. That is pretty poor really isn't it. No wonder the committee never changes, no other bugger knows when the meetings are! Ditto I renew most yrs when I remember. Only for priority tickets for big games and I’ve had absolutely no use for this for a few yrs !
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Post by Charlton Hayes Gas on Jun 21, 2020 15:58:53 GMT
I'm a member, purely for the reason of getting priority to away tickets. And a Helpline member too. However, I do forget that I'm a member from one year to the next, as I receive absolutely no communication from the SC at all. A letter with your card in, and then nothing, until asking for your money next year. No letters, emails, texts, messages, invitations to meetings, nothing at all. That is pretty poor really isn't it. No wonder the committee never changes, no other bugger knows when the meetings are! I believe the S/C needs a massive revamp and needs to join the 21st Century in the way it’s operated and how it communicates with supporters/members. When I was a SC member, I only renewed if I remembered (never reminded) and I only used it for away day priority. I believe there should be some form of electronic database with the details of signed up members, scrap the annual renewal and just be a monthly paying member and sign up/cancel when you choose to. I would also like to somehow see the gascast podcast joined in with that and be able to try and get regular content with current players, staff behind the scenes, supporters from all over the club etc. And that be part of your monthly subscription. maybe even a discount for a drink at the bar if you’ve got a members card? also that’s another no paper membership card anymore, a proper electronic card with your details on it and you can somehow build points on it when you use it buying stuff from the club, tickets etc. Social media needs regular updating with events, meetings and deals that are organised by the SC that members/supporters may be interested in. that includes Facebook, twitter and even Instagram now. Im not denying they don’t do all of that now, but a lot of the content does feel very outdated and it’s not engaging/intriguing at all.
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Post by toddy1953 on Jun 21, 2020 16:30:43 GMT
I am a former member, apathy led to not renewing. However, does anyone know the size of the membership? Rather than not joining until we see change, isn’t it better for fans to enrol in numbers to effect change? I know change won’t happen overnight but if enough join they can start to effect the changes required.
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Post by peterparker on Jun 21, 2020 16:54:56 GMT
Does anybody understand how the SC shareholding being diluted by the new share allocation affect their own standing as shareholders? Surprised the SC haven't made any formal announcement regarding that issue alone. The SC cant say sh**. They waived their rights years ago to allow Nick Higgs to issue shares and dilute their share holding. The SC and any individuals now own less of the club than they did. Wael has fairly left the door open for an SC representative as allowed under the terms of the share scheme even if their share holding has been reduced
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Post by bs10er on Jun 21, 2020 17:19:14 GMT
I am a member and have been for donkeys years,guess it is a bit of a habit. As for a change in the committee,they are always open to new blood(when there are vacant places) but they are never overwhelm with applicants!
I have to own up to being friends and watching games with several committee members who I have known for years,BUT that does Not mean I "am in the know".It is also hard to criticize(and I do) if you are not willing to become a committee member(I am not)
I know in the past Jim has felt like standing down,but as you would expect,no one else wants to take it on! That is no answer to all the faults of the BRSC and I do not know what the answer is either. I do know that most of the committee members have worked hard for years and years,yes if they work match days they get a free ticket and some of them get a free parking place(the ones who have to be there get at the ground early,11am some of them) and as far as I know that is their only"perks"( I am not including fans directors in this,that I don't know about)
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Post by graceyboy on Jun 21, 2020 17:30:52 GMT
What’s the point of a supporters club in 2020 and beyond. Genuine question. Nice of Wael to offer an olive branch but say they recovers their composure and took it, then what? Dilution means even less “influence“ than the zero masters et al had before Don't underestimate or disrespect the hardwork of mostly volunteers over the years. Jim Chappell has given a lot of years to the club as have Phil Draper and Angela Mann before.. From running the sc shops in Eastville and then two mile hill giving access to supporters for tickets and merchandise over the years and organising the only source of coach travel to away matches.. That's the point of them!!! It appears that one man-Ken masters, with his over- inflated ego, has damaged the relationship between wael and the sc and the sc have backed their man (wrongly in my opinion) as he was the wrong horse to back. There will always be a need for the sc for as long as supporters want to travel to away games by coach. I don't think it was all one way btw, the owners dropped a b*llock by shutting the TMH office, alienating older supporters who aren't Internet savvy. I think masters got above his station re being elected onto the board so I wouldn't be in favour of a member on the board but in terms of the hours they give mainly for free and what they do on match days and with coach travel, I think you should show a bit more appreciation.
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Post by graceyboy on Jun 21, 2020 17:42:44 GMT
They need to stick to what they do best.. Selling merchandise and club shirts, organising away coach travel and continue with the sterling work on match days with the helpline, young pirates and mascots and leave worrying about running the club to the experts (owners)
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Post by stevek192 on Jun 21, 2020 18:39:27 GMT
All they need to do is SUPPORT the club instead of going to war with it. Jim Chappell seems to think he is a law unto himself whenever he has to say anything and it doesn't surprise me one bit that it is this way. it appears to be run like a 1950s mob!!
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Post by graceyboy on Jun 21, 2020 18:59:01 GMT
The supporters club are exactly that... Supporters. They are no different from you or I and want to see the club heading in the right direction. When there was no movement on the training ground or stadium, rumours of £24m worth of debt and closing of the tmh office as well as not inviting their board member to meetings, then of course they're going to get a bit narked just as we all have on here.. Its because we all want what's best for the club. They are just as entitled as the rest of us to ask questions on lack of progress. Fortunately, wael has come up trumps and most of us have been forced to eat some humble pie re his investment but I think we'd all be happy to eat a slice bearing in mind what has happened over the last few days. I don't think you'll see any sniping of the owners from anyone now. It just feels like those most vocal on criticising the SC are entitled millenials that think away coach travel, the helpline and young pirates are organised by the 'gas fairies' or they are simply too selfish to even think or care about how things like that are organised and are always the last ones to put their hands in the air to volunteer to do the jobs they criticise others for.
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Post by farmygas on Jun 21, 2020 19:00:37 GMT
Wind it up.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jun 21, 2020 19:07:57 GMT
The supporters club are exactly that... Supporters. They are no different from you or I and want to see the club heading in the right direction. When there was no movement on the training ground or stadium, rumours of £24m worth of debt and closing of the tmh office as well as not inviting their board member to meetings, then of course they're going to get a bit narked just as we all have on here.. Its because we all want what's best for the club. They are just as entitled as the rest of us to ask questions on lack of progress. Fortunately, wael has come up trumps and most of us have been forced to eat some humble pie re his investment but I think we'd all be happy to eat a slice bearing in mind what has happened over the last few days. I don't think you'll see any sniping of the owners from anyone now. It just feels like those most vocal on criticising the SC are entitled millenials that think away coach travel, the helpline and young pirates are organised by the 'gas fairies' or they are simply too selfish to even think or care about how things like that are organised and are always the last ones to put their hands in the air to volunteer to do the jobs they criticise others for. Pretty sure the SC, who owned TMH, decided themselves to close the shop as the repairs required to the building, as they'd let it run in to disrepair, outweighed the cost of selling it and pocketing the money. Having done that they of course managed to lose it all but, very fortunately, manager to recover it.
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Post by warehamgas on Jun 21, 2020 19:15:29 GMT
Is anyone on this forum also a member of the BRSC slam, I am. Have been for a few years. I’ve done it because when we have all ticket stuff I’m meant to be higher on the priority list. Not that it’s been needed over the past few years tbh. But in that time I’ve not had one communication from them, no notification of any meetings, no AGM stuff. Do it now just out of habit and being some way away here in Dorset means I’ve got some place on the priority for big stuff without having to queue at the ground etc. And in the end I’m a gashead and I try to support a few initiatives like many others, Community Trust, FFS, buy regularly in the shop so I suppose I join the SC for the same reasons. By the way, it doesn’t mean I support what they’ve done or how they are acting. UTG! edit: I posted when I saw slams original post and before I saw puregas and others response. Pretty much my position as well though I will probably renew.
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Post by keygas on Jun 21, 2020 19:26:28 GMT
I don’t agree with the recent shenanigans the supporters club have been involved in, but you can’t fault the work they’ve done on behalf of the club over the years. I sure without the SC we would still be standing on the Thatchers end with no roof covering.
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Post by gashead1981 on Jun 21, 2020 19:38:21 GMT
What’s the point of a supporters club in 2020 and beyond. Genuine question. Nice of Wael to offer an olive branch but say they recovers their composure and took it, then what? Dilution means even less “influence“ than the zero masters et al had before Don't underestimate or disrespect the hardwork of mostly volunteers over the years. Jim Chappell has given a lot of years to the club as have Phil Draper and Angela Mann before.. From running the sc shops in Eastville and then two mile hill giving access to supporters for tickets and merchandise over the years and organising the only source of coach travel to away matches.. That's the point of them!!! It appears that one man-Ken masters, with his over- inflated ego, has damaged the relationship between wael and the sc and the sc have backed their man (wrongly in my opinion) as he was the wrong horse to back. There will always be a need for the sc for as long as supporters want to travel to away games by coach. I don't think it was all one way btw, the owners dropped a b*llock by shutting the TMH office, alienating older supporters who aren't Internet savvy. I think masters got above his station re being elected onto the board so I wouldn't be in favour of a member on the board but in terms of the hours they give mainly for free and what they do on match days and with coach travel, I think you should show a bit more appreciation. No doubt that JC and all the volunteers have given their best over the years and that should be appreciated and recognised. However between JC, KM and the top brass of the PC they bankrupted their relationship with the club. Yes they now look foolish, perhaps at the time they had reason to believe they were doing the right thing, but I think they would garner more respect and a few more members if they were to publicly apologise and come forward with a plan to rebuild their relationship with the club.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2020 20:07:06 GMT
A few points to make to this important thread:
1. Few people seem to understand that Wael's generous decision (which I'm delighted he has made) is in fact a simple debt for equity swap. 2. Importantly, this implies that the existing shareholders are diluted. 3. Before this announcement, there were over 100 individual shareholders with a combined approx 1% holding in BRFC; and the Supporters Club Share Scheme had approx 6%. 4. Wael's announcement does not actually state by how much these shareholders have been diluted (he should have, really). 5. But if we assume, for sake of argument, that the dilution is by 50%, then the Share Scheme still holds 3% of BRFC. This is tiny but still important. 6. Under the share scheme's articles, this holding entitles the SC to two representative Directors on the BRFC board. Previously KM and BS-S, then KM only when he (with Hamer's backing) played politics to consolidate his power by persuading JC not to encourage anyone else to stand for election even though there were apparently at least three candidates who expressed interest in running for election after BS-S stood down. And then as we all know KM left the board. 7. The scheme articles also state that, unless an EGM of the SC is called (no chance, given Covid-19), then nominations for the vacant Directorships have to be made in the month of June, and an election (by post) can held soon afterwards. 8. Therefore anyone interested in standing needs to be a SC member and complete the form on the SC website, be nominated and seconded, and get that in to JC in the next nine days. 9. The BRFC board has the right to turn down any elected SC Director if that person is deemed unsuitable, although from memory this has not been exercised since the scheme started in 2002. 10. Given all of this, it is surely an obligation for the SC to a) stop being churlish and make a supportive announcement of the developments announced by Wael on Friday, b) invite nominations for the vacant Director positions and c) announce a wholesale review of the SC, the leadership and committee, its remit, the plans for the future and d) and also announce that JC will stand down as Chairman once a replacement has been found, as JC's position is now untenable. 11. Every football club, irrespective of size or division it's in, needs an effective supporters club that works with the owners and also acts as a formal forum for fans views, feedback, concerns, ideas etc. Our SC is unusual in this regard at it has a shareholding and with it comes seats on the board. I don't believe Wael is against working with the SC for one moment, hence him mentioning it in his statement. For those posting who say the SC doesn't matter and should be wound up, think again. Amongst other things, there's a shareholding to represent, something that some Gasheads have put good money into for the last 18 years or so. 12. So, it is absolutely necessary for the SC to draw a line under the recent shenanigans and urgently make an announcement along the lines above, that will start rebuild trust all round. I had hoped that the SC committee would have spent this weekend sorting this out and announced something.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2020 18:34:42 GMT
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