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Post by gasandelectricity on Jul 5, 2020 8:45:01 GMT
With us in the off season for an undetermined period I thought it would be fun to debate some of the gaschat ‘facts’.
The one I’ve chosen is the one that people wheel out to say DC was hopeless in League 1. Clueless even some would say. I see this a lot and it troubles me.
DC took us to our highest place finish since 2000 (10th) and followed it up with a solid mid table finish the following year (13th). After that it went a little bit wrong but the man had sold most of his top performers and was due a break and a fresh challenge. Both seasons, whilst we had the odd shocker, we were there or abouts and were still within a shot of the playoffs going into the final 10 games.
For me, you know, listen, he was a decent L1 manager for us.
Discuss
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Post by gashead1981 on Jul 5, 2020 8:59:33 GMT
I wouldn’t say he was clueless or hopeless. But he did lose his way and regardless of how you dress losing Taylor, Bodin and Harrison he still left us with a spent playing budget of £2.6m that was only good enough to see us bottom of the league, so it’s not as if the owners didn’t back him to replace those players. He just spent it on duds like Bennett and Payne.
DC quite simply ran his course with us, he was frustrated, tired and his ideas and philosophy no longer worked for the players he signed.
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Post by justin blue on Jul 5, 2020 9:16:53 GMT
DC was the greatest manager this club has had to date in my oppinion. He was far from hopeless in league 1, but I think he had reached the end of the line when he left .Though I think like us he became frustrated with the lack of progress off the pitch. Had we not lost Taylor I am sure we would have reached the playoffs. Although having said that had Coughlan stayed I think we would have been promoted this season, but that's for another debate.
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Post by bridgwatergas on Jul 5, 2020 9:29:34 GMT
DC assembled a great squad and picked up some decent talent from the lower leagues and gelled them into a good team. When some of these players decided to move on he had a lack of connections in the top divisions to lure talent to the club and ended up bringing poor signings which cost him his job. It dosent look like anything has changed at Walsall as he turned to the same players to join him like Clarke,Sinclair and Gaffney.
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Post by warwickgas on Jul 5, 2020 9:45:19 GMT
Yeah, no, if I’m honest you’re spot on there
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Marshy
Proper Gas
Posts: 13,978
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Post by Marshy on Jul 5, 2020 9:53:10 GMT
DC assembled a great squad and picked up some decent talent from the lower leagues and gelled them into a good team. When some of these players decided to move on he had a lack of connections in the top divisions to lure talent to the club and ended up bringing poor signings which cost him his job. It dosent look like anything has changed at Walsall as he turned to the same players to join him like Clarke,Sinclair and Gaffney. Totally agree with the above, his biggest downfall turned out to be Tom Nichols. At the time I think the majority of us thought this was a very good signing, but for whatever reason it was a total disaster! This imo ultimately cost DC his job as his stubbornness to stick with Tom went on to the bitter end. I still can’t work out the Nichols thing as we all know there is a good player in there? I know there were obviously other factors, but DC was still a great manager for us and I will always remember what he did for us with fond memories.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Jul 5, 2020 10:22:15 GMT
With us in the off season for an undetermined period I thought it would be fun to debate some of the gaschat ‘facts’. The one I’ve chosen is the one that people wheel out to say DC was hopeless in League 1. Clueless even some would say. I see this a lot and it troubles me. DC took us to our highest place finish since 2000 (10th) and followed it up with a solid mid table finish the following year (13th). After that it went a little bit wrong but the man had sold most of his top performers and was due a break and a fresh challenge. Both seasons, whilst we had the odd shocker, we were there or abouts and were still within a shot of the playoffs going into the final 10 games. For me, you know, listen, he was a decent L1 manager for us. Discuss DC gave me 2 of my greatest footballing days of my life so for that fact along he will always be a good League 1 manager in my eyes Would i have him back NO we have a technically better manager now
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Post by CrispPusher on Jul 5, 2020 10:25:53 GMT
DC assembled a great squad and picked up some decent talent from the lower leagues and gelled them into a good team. When some of these players decided to move on he had a lack of connections in the top divisions to lure talent to the club and ended up bringing poor signings which cost him his job. It dosent look like anything has changed at Walsall as he turned to the same players to join him like Clarke,Sinclair and Gaffney. Totally agree with the above, his biggest downfall turned out to be Tom Nichols. At the time I think the majority of us thought this was a very good signing, but for whatever reason it was a total disaster! This imo ultimately cost DC his job as his stubbornness to stick with Tom went on to the bitter end. I still can’t work out the Nichols thing as we all know there is a good player in there? I know there were obviously other factors, but DC was still a great manager for us and I will always remember what he did for us with fond memories. The only thing Mr 0.6875ppg has done right so far was remove the turd that is Tom Nichols from the club!
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 5, 2020 10:31:54 GMT
Odd he that mentioned speaking to Trollope just before he repeated his mistakes in getting it totally wrong when trying to rebuild the promotion squad. He was unlucky that he lost the snake and Bodin for peanuts, then wasted Harrison's money on the likes of Payne. I guess the fact he's now managing in L2 suggests other club's owners don't see him as a L1 manager?
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 5, 2020 10:42:32 GMT
With us in the off season for an undetermined period I thought it would be fun to debate some of the gaschat ‘facts’. The one I’ve chosen is the one that people wheel out to say DC was hopeless in League 1. Clueless even some would say. I see this a lot and it troubles me. DC took us to our highest place finish since 2000 (10th) and followed it up with a solid mid table finish the following year (13th). After that it went a little bit wrong but the man had sold most of his top performers and was due a break and a fresh challenge. Both seasons, whilst we had the odd shocker, we were there or abouts and were still within a shot of the playoffs going into the final 10 games. For me, you know, listen, he was a decent L1 manager for us. Discuss I agree he was a decent L1 manager. I see it like this: In 17/18 we were decent but tailed off after Christmas bu5 still finished 13th, mid table. Clearly we needed to recruit well in the summer. We didn’t, Summer 2018 was a disaster for getting the players in we needed and towards the end of August we seemed to panic and git Payne. We started 18/19 poorly and never recovered and by December we’re poor and Dc was deflected into criticism of others about everything else, ground, training ground. He was trying to deflect and wanted out. So he went and GC was able to play a system that suited the players we had far better. Not good to watch but effective and we recovered. Thanks GC. From all that I still think the summer of 18 with our poor recruitment was the reason for Dc going. He never got the players to play the way he wanted which in the end was his fault perhaps. Either way he’s gone, good luck to him in the future, great guy responsible for two of our 6 promotions but we also move on. Come on BG! UTG!
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Post by axegas on Jul 5, 2020 10:48:05 GMT
Yeah you're definitely right, DC was a decent manager in league one. He put together a side with the likes of Taylor, Bodin, Lockyer, Harrison, Brown, all of whom now play in L1 or higher, a team which was probably the best we've had in this division since the Holloway side that narrowly missed out on the play-offs. Just a shame that team didn't get a full year together because IMO it was capable of finishing in the top 6.
What proved to be DC's achilles heel was transfer policy, especially in his last few windows as manager. Bodin and Taylor went for a fraction of their worth and this meant the funds nor the facilities were there to attract good replacements. Nichols and Bennett were big investments for us but ultimately flopped and he had a very poor summer of recruitment in 2018. Stefan Payne, Gavin Reilly, Bernard Mensah and Sam Matthews all came in and didn't improve on what was already there and that, combined with a bit of a loss in confidence and DC never quite knowing what his best team was led to us struggling. I think he'll admit that his recruitment could of been better himself, always found his honesty refreshing. The ironic thing is that a decision he made, in appointing Widdrington, has meant that our recruitment has improved in recent windows. Would he had benefitted from this, if he'd stayed on a bit longer? Who knows?
After suffering years of underperforming in L2 to the point we dropped into the conference though, I can't see how anyone can attack DC for his efforts in L1. A legend in my eyes.
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Post by rememberhalifax on Jul 5, 2020 11:02:13 GMT
The only time i was ever dubious about D/Cs appointment was when he got the job in the first place. At the time it seemed that it was the typical no2 scenario who thought he could do better than his boss and perhaps undermined J/W . I hasten to add i am not ITK and this is just an impression i got at the time . Once we were relegated i doubt any other manager would have got us back up first time as he quickly drummed into players and fans that unless we accepted our lot and adapted to life in the national league we were in for a big shock. He was certainly the right man for the job at that time and the rest is history. Fast forward a couple of years and we consolidated our league 1 status before both D/C and the team started to struggle and in the end D/C seemed to run out of solutions and both his and the teams confidence seemed to drain away, D/C cutting a very frustrated figure come the end ,frustrated with the club, team ,and his own failure to find the solution to our predicament. It may be coincidence but D/C and the teams performances were never the same following his graduation up the coaching ladder and it is my belief he got to bogged down in clever theory instead of acting from his gut feeling which had got him this far, in the end he couldn't see the wood for the trees. I am sure if a month off could have been arranged to clear his head, he would have come back refreshed and back to his old self , shame the powers that be could not see that the man needed a break ,and acted accordingly. In conclusion D/C was not a failure at league 1 level , but in the end ,failing just having a break, he needed to go for his own sanity and our survival in league 1, but he will always be held in the highest regard by me and i am sure many others.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Jul 5, 2020 11:18:36 GMT
With us in the off season for an undetermined period I thought it would be fun to debate some of the gaschat ‘facts’. The one I’ve chosen is the one that people wheel out to say DC was hopeless in League 1. Clueless even some would say. I see this a lot and it troubles me. DC took us to our highest place finish since 2000 (10th) and followed it up with a solid mid table finish the following year (13th). After that it went a little bit wrong but the man had sold most of his top performers and was due a break and a fresh challenge. Both seasons, whilst we had the odd shocker, we were there or abouts and were still within a shot of the playoffs going into the final 10 games. For me, you know, listen, he was a decent L1 manager for us. Discuss DC gave me 2 of my greatest footballing days of my life so for that fact along he will always be a good League 1 manager in my eyes Would i have him back NO we have a technically better manager now Could have agreed with your post up to maybe the second from last line but can’t take that last line seriously? You can believe he might make it good, I can maybe understand your thought process with that, but to suggest he’s a technically better manager when he’s achieved 0.7 ppg seems mad to me.
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Post by oldgas on Jul 5, 2020 11:36:09 GMT
DC was the greatest manager this club has had to date in my oppinion. He was far from hopeless in league 1, but I think he had reached the end of the line when he left .Though I think like us he became frustrated with the lack of progress off the pitch. Had we not lost Taylor I am sure we would have reached the playoffs. Although having said that had Coughlan stayed I think we would have been promoted this season, but that's for another debate. Better than Gerry Francis MK 1? Now there was man who knew how to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear. And in doing so he bettered The Sh1t who had every conceivable advantage over us. Except we had Gerry.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Jul 5, 2020 11:40:40 GMT
DC assembled a great squad and picked up some decent talent from the lower leagues and gelled them into a good team. When some of these players decided to move on he had a lack of connections in the top divisions to lure talent to the club and ended up bringing poor signings which cost him his job. It dosent look like anything has changed at Walsall as he turned to the same players to join him like Clarke,Sinclair and Gaffney. Not saying you're wrong but managers sign players they used to manage and know they can trust.
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Post by alanrg on Jul 5, 2020 11:46:13 GMT
Dc was a very good manager 4 us his biggest downfall was far 2 many team changes and worrying 2 much about the opposition instead of imposing r game on them
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Post by squire on Jul 5, 2020 12:12:29 GMT
Agree with the above and how can you make four and five changes every game
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Marshy
Proper Gas
Posts: 13,978
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Post by Marshy on Jul 5, 2020 12:18:49 GMT
Agree with the above and how can you make four and five changes every game He must have believed that he had the squad to do it, but sadly he didn’t.
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Post by Hugh Jarsole on Jul 5, 2020 12:41:00 GMT
To much unnecessary tinkering in the end
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Post by lpgas1 on Jul 5, 2020 12:51:10 GMT
DC was a good manager in the Natioanl League and Division 2. We needed better players for Division One and his only contacts in Division One had to be Harold Steptoe as what he got in were duds (Payne especially) gave extra long contracts (after saying he would only give 1 year contracts) to Nichols and Bennett. Changed the team every "project" even if they had won the previous "Project".
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