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Post by WeAreTheGas on Jul 31, 2020 16:33:02 GMT
Before JA joined the talk was of bringing a new striker in to play with JCH not to replace him, this suggests it will not be just one up top, but we shall see Again it's all just guess work, but judging by the defenders we've brought in, I think we will possibly be playing a 3-4-3, as it stands Ehmer, Baldwin and Kilgour as the back 3. Leahy/another and Little/Hare as wing backs Grant/Upson/Ogogo and hopefully another creative player signed. Nicholson on the right Bennett possibly/Another Left sided player signed. JCH as the main man. Agreed. ____________Jaakkola ____Baldwin__Ehmer__Kilgour Hare____Grant_____Upson___Leahy ____Nicholson__JCH__Barrett Doesn’t look too bad IMO - but I would worry about us getting the front 3 the ball in dangerous positions without a more creative & dynamic CM in place of Upson.
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Post by markczgas on Jul 31, 2020 16:54:06 GMT
So if JCH picked up an injury you would be happy with Daly and Ayunga, who have scored a total of 0 goals in the football league? What happens if we pick up an injury to one of the 3 strikers and want to switch formation and play a front 2...who is there to make an impact off the bench? Need more options IMHO.just Agree three strikers is too low unless the club feel the two young forwards we have that recently signed Pro deals are the goods and can instantly step up to the plate if needed. This however is a gamble and I personally think we definitely need a fourth someone with league experience - Dominic Samuel would be a perfect fit the 3 degrees - Phillips, Hulbert and Warwick.
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Post by Gastafari on Jul 31, 2020 17:08:11 GMT
Again it's all just guess work, but judging by the defenders we've brought in, I think we will possibly be playing a 3-4-3, as it stands Ehmer, Baldwin and Kilgour as the back 3. Leahy/another and Little/Hare as wing backs Grant/Upson/Ogogo and hopefully another creative player signed. Nicholson on the right Bennett possibly/Another Left sided player signed. JCH as the main man. You surely don't mean Bennett - Barrett maybe or even Jayden Mitchell - Lawson perhaps? Yes I mean Barrett, maybe Bennett can redeem himself too?
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Post by Gassy on Jul 31, 2020 17:10:27 GMT
Wasn't this guy mentioned on here the other week? I’m sure someone of your abilities can find the old thread
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 17:16:08 GMT
You surely don't mean Bennett - Barrett maybe or even Jayden Mitchell - Lawson perhaps? Yes I mean Barrett, maybe Bennett can redeem himself too? That's good news .... I have been really happy with the signings so far and hoping that Leahy and Rodman / Upson are nowhere near the Starting Eleven so fingers crossed there are some more plans playing out.
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Post by long john silver on Jul 31, 2020 17:42:46 GMT
Especially when you play with just one out and out striker as we probably will. Bit of a wider issue in football as all fans want more strikers but it’s hard to attract a genuine number nine when a club has a clear first choice. We are a bit like Spurs - why would a number nine go there to compete against Harry Kane. Why would a decent league 1 or 2 striker come to rovers to play second fiddle to JCH? If we are going to play one up top, which I think we will too, it'll be interesting to see if where Nicholson and possibly Barrett will fit in. The top sides in the Premier League whether it be Liverpool, Man City, Utd, Chelsea and Leicester, all play with just the one out and out striker, and play with 2 wide Inside Forwards who all chip in with 10,15, 20 goals themselves. As do Brentford, imo the best Footballing team in The Championship. 442 is dead , went out with the dinosaurs 🦖
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Jul 31, 2020 17:46:30 GMT
Bump at the request of Gassy
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 17:46:37 GMT
If we are going to play one up top, which I think we will too, it'll be interesting to see if where Nicholson and possibly Barrett will fit in. The top sides in the Premier League whether it be Liverpool, Man City, Utd, Chelsea and Leicester, all play with just the one out and out striker, and play with 2 wide Inside Forwards who all chip in with 10,15, 20 goals themselves. As do Brentford, imo the best Footballing team in The Championship. 442 is dead , went out with the dinosaurs 🦖 Clearly 9-1 is the way forward.
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Post by wilmslowgas on Jul 31, 2020 18:23:23 GMT
Depends how good the others we've signed turn out to be. James Daly could turn out to be a gem, as could Ayunga. We're all just guessing at the moment. Liverpool who have just romped the Premier League, don't have an array of striking options, their 3 literally play every game. It's not always a necessity to have 4 or 5 strikers/forwards So if JCH picked up an injury you would be happy with Daly and Ayunga, who have scored a total of 0 goals in the football league? What happens if we pick up an injury to one of the 3 strikers and want to switch formation and play a front 2...who is there to make an impact off the bench? Need more options IMHO. I get it that the squad size will be somewhat reduced next season. However, we cannot go into combat with only three strikers - two whom are raw and inexperienced. Another body will be needed. If JCH goes, we will be looking for two.
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Post by james246 on Jul 31, 2020 18:38:29 GMT
So if JCH picked up an injury you would be happy with Daly and Ayunga, who have scored a total of 0 goals in the football league? What happens if we pick up an injury to one of the 3 strikers and want to switch formation and play a front 2...who is there to make an impact off the bench? Need more options IMHO. I get it that the squad size will be somewhat reduced next season. However, we cannot go into combat with only three strikers - two whom are raw and inexperienced. Another body will be needed. If JCH goes, we will be looking for two. Yes I hold the same view, I can only think the management have a lot of faith in our inexperienced strikers
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Post by rovers5charlton5 on Jul 31, 2020 19:44:58 GMT
You know what I think this is. Dominic Samuel has told his agent that he wants a move, and only Blackpool and the Gas are signing anyone at the moment, so they're just stirring things up, hoping one of us will bite, or that another club will crawl out of the woodwork and sign him.
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Post by yaz on Jul 31, 2020 22:35:56 GMT
So if JCH picked up an injury you would be happy with Daly and Ayunga, who have scored a total of 0 goals in the football league? What happens if we pick up an injury to one of the 3 strikers and want to switch formation and play a front 2...who is there to make an impact off the bench? Need more options IMHO. There's always the loan market, as well. We don't know how good the others are, yet. James Daly could turn out to be a 20 goal a season striker and Ayunga could get 10-15, we just don't know. If Liverpool were without Salah or Mane, or even Firminho for long periods and had to rely on Origi, they wouldn't of won the league, I am certain about that, they haven't got 4 or 5 strikers and they're the best team in the country. It's all just guess work and hypothetical how many strikers we need. Man City do NOT have decent strikers with Aguero injured. Stirling and Jesus are not that good but look good because they play in a team with such a creative midfield that creates so many chances for them. It would be interesting to see goals scored vs chances split by range from goal i.e. 1-10 yards, 11-20, etc. for these 2 players. I think Jesus will come out poor? Compare these players to Kane, Son, Ings, Ollie Watkins, Billy Sharp, etc. and it wil be noticeable. If we had a creative midfield, then the chances would come and the chances of more goals irrespective of the strikers although they do make a big difference. Ollie Watkins stands out in all 4 leagues for the way he plays; he rarely loses the ball? Reminds me of Rickie Lambert; one touch, lay it off or calmness in front of Goal! UTG
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Post by pirate on Jul 31, 2020 23:09:53 GMT
There's always the loan market, as well. We don't know how good the others are, yet. James Daly could turn out to be a 20 goal a season striker and Ayunga could get 10-15, we just don't know. If Liverpool were without Salah or Mane, or even Firminho for long periods and had to rely on Origi, they wouldn't of won the league, I am certain about that, they haven't got 4 or 5 strikers and they're the best team in the country. It's all just guess work and hypothetical how many strikers we need. Man City do NOT have decent strikers with Aguero injured. Stirling and Jesus are not that good but look good because they play in a team with such a creative midfield that creates so many chances for them. It would be interesting to see goals scored vs chances split by range from goal i.e. 1-10 yards, 11-20, etc. for these 2 players. I think Jesus will come out poor? Compare these players to Kane, Son, Ings, Ollie Watkins, Billy Sharp, etc. and it wil be noticeable. If we had a creative midfield, then the chances would come and the chances of more goals irrespective of the strikers although they do make a big difference. Ollie Watkins stands out in all 4 leagues for the way he plays; he rarely loses the ball? Reminds me of Rickie Lambert; one touch, lay it off or calmness in front of Goal! UTG When penalties are excluded, no player has a better expected goals per 90 minutes figure than Gabriel Jesus in the Premier League this season. His 0.77 non-penalty expected goals per 90 (npxG/90) is well clear of the competition, with golden boot contenders Jamie Vardy and Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang lagging behind on 0.44 npxG per 90. Even if you were to argue Gabriel Jesus hasn't played as many minutes as the others and discard per 90 minute metrics, Jesus is still a league-leading player. He has amassed 15.5 xG across the season, underperforming that number by more than four goals, and his xG tally is behind only Marcus Rashford (15.6), Vardy (17.0) and Mohamed Salah (17.1). Salah and Vardy have both played more than 2,500 minutes while Rashford has played 2,290. Jesus is competing with them despite playing just 1,711 minutes. 67 goals in 91 starts for Man City in all competitions and 18 goals in 39 appearances for Brazil. Decent.
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Post by rambo on Aug 1, 2020 7:40:14 GMT
There's always the loan market, as well. We don't know how good the others are, yet. James Daly could turn out to be a 20 goal a season striker and Ayunga could get 10-15, we just don't know. If Liverpool were without Salah or Mane, or even Firminho for long periods and had to rely on Origi, they wouldn't of won the league, I am certain about that, they haven't got 4 or 5 strikers and they're the best team in the country. It's all just guess work and hypothetical how many strikers we need. Man City do NOT have decent strikers with Aguero injured. Stirling and Jesus are not that good but look good because they play in a team with such a creative midfield that creates so many chances for them. It would be interesting to see goals scored vs chances split by range from goal i.e. 1-10 yards, 11-20, etc. for these 2 players. I think Jesus will come out poor? Compare these players to Kane, Son, Ings, Ollie Watkins, Billy Sharp, etc. and it wil be noticeable. If we had a creative midfield, then the chances would come and the chances of more goals irrespective of the strikers although they do make a big difference. Ollie Watkins stands out in all 4 leagues for the way he plays; he rarely loses the ball? Reminds me of Rickie Lambert; one touch, lay it off or calmness in front of Goal! UTG Wowww hahahaaa what on earth have I just read? Sterling and Jesus are not that good!! Must be on a wind up
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Post by yaz on Aug 1, 2020 8:06:44 GMT
Man City do NOT have decent strikers with Aguero injured. Stirling and Jesus are not that good but look good because they play in a team with such a creative midfield that creates so many chances for them. It would be interesting to see goals scored vs chances split by range from goal i.e. 1-10 yards, 11-20, etc. for these 2 players. I think Jesus will come out poor? Compare these players to Kane, Son, Ings, Ollie Watkins, Billy Sharp, etc. and it wil be noticeable. If we had a creative midfield, then the chances would come and the chances of more goals irrespective of the strikers although they do make a big difference. Ollie Watkins stands out in all 4 leagues for the way he plays; he rarely loses the ball? Reminds me of Rickie Lambert; one touch, lay it off or calmness in front of Goal! UTG When penalties are excluded, no player has a better expected goals per 90 minutes figure than Gabriel Jesus in the Premier League this season. His 0.77 non-penalty expected goals per 90 (npxG/90) is well clear of the competition, with golden boot contenders Jamie Vardy and Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang lagging behind on 0.44 npxG per 90. Even if you were to argue Gabriel Jesus hasn't played as many minutes as the others and discard per 90 minute metrics, Jesus is still a league-leading player. He has amassed 15.5 xG across the season, underperforming that number by more than four goals, and his xG tally is behind only Marcus Rashford (15.6), Vardy (17.0) and Mohamed Salah (17.1). Salah and Vardy have both played more than 2,500 minutes while Rashford has played 2,290. Jesus is competing with them despite playing just 1,711 minutes. 67 goals in 91 starts for Man City in all competitions and 18 goals in 39 appearances for Brazil. Decent. Impressive stats, if I understand them correctly. Thanks for these. The point made was about the total number of chances that they get and how many of these are converted into goals. I don't think these stats cover these? I just get the impression watching them that because the team creates so many chances for them with players like DeBruyn, Mahrez, David Vila, etc. they will sooner or later score but if other players had those chances, they would score far more, e.g. Aguero? Still, I usually see things differently. Their ball control is also generally not as good as other top strikers. I doubt if Man City fans will remember too much of Jesus after he has gone a few years. Aguero and Tevez and DeBruyn etc. will always be. Stirling probably because he has been there for some time and is a regular starter. UTG
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Aug 1, 2020 10:11:11 GMT
When penalties are excluded, no player has a better expected goals per 90 minutes figure than Gabriel Jesus in the Premier League this season. His 0.77 non-penalty expected goals per 90 (npxG/90) is well clear of the competition, with golden boot contenders Jamie Vardy and Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang lagging behind on 0.44 npxG per 90. Even if you were to argue Gabriel Jesus hasn't played as many minutes as the others and discard per 90 minute metrics, Jesus is still a league-leading player. He has amassed 15.5 xG across the season, underperforming that number by more than four goals, and his xG tally is behind only Marcus Rashford (15.6), Vardy (17.0) and Mohamed Salah (17.1). Salah and Vardy have both played more than 2,500 minutes while Rashford has played 2,290. Jesus is competing with them despite playing just 1,711 minutes. 67 goals in 91 starts for Man City in all competitions and 18 goals in 39 appearances for Brazil. Decent. Impressive stats, if I understand them correctly. Thanks for these. The point made was about the total number of chances that they get and how many of these are converted into goals. I don't think these stats cover these? I just get the impression watching them that because the team creates so many chances for them with players like DeBruyn, Mahrez, David Vila, etc. they will sooner or later score but if other players had those chances, they would score far more, e.g. Aguero? Still, I usually see things differently. Their ball control is also generally not as good as other top strikers. I doubt if Man City fans will remember too much of Jesus after he has gone a few years. Aguero and Tevez and DeBruyn etc. will always be. Stirling probably because he has been there for some time and is a regular starter. UTG Expected goals (xg) is a statistical measurement of the quality of goalscoring chances and the likelihood of them being scored.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Aug 1, 2020 11:03:36 GMT
merged
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 1, 2020 11:14:44 GMT
Sounds like there might be some truth in this rumour even if Sam Frost feels otherwise:
Not sure why SF feels there's not room in our squad for 4 strikers as if JCH missing a few games we'll have virtually zero league experience upfront.
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Post by Gastafari on Aug 1, 2020 11:21:27 GMT
Man City do NOT have decent strikers with Aguero injured. Stirling and Jesus are not that good but look good because they play in a team with such a creative midfield that creates so many chances for them. It would be interesting to see goals scored vs chances split by range from goal i.e. 1-10 yards, 11-20, etc. for these 2 players. I think Jesus will come out poor? Compare these players to Kane, Son, Ings, Ollie Watkins, Billy Sharp, etc. and it wil be noticeable. If we had a creative midfield, then the chances would come and the chances of more goals irrespective of the strikers although they do make a big difference. Ollie Watkins stands out in all 4 leagues for the way he plays; he rarely loses the ball? Reminds me of Rickie Lambert; one touch, lay it off or calmness in front of Goal! UTG Wowww hahahaaa what on earth have I just read? Sterling and Jesus are not that good!! Must be on a wind up Gabriel Jesus is a good player, but Man City only have him and Aguero as strikers. Sterling isn't a striker, neither is Mahrez, they are attacking wide players(Inside Forwards) who chip in with 10/15/20 goals themselves, as are Salah and Mane, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, Eden Hazard when he was at Chelsea and now they've got another in Pulisic etc Football tactics and formations have changed, hardly anybody plays 4-4-2 anymore. The majority play variations of 4-5-1/4-3-3/3-4-3 where they only play with 1 main striker as the focal point and the wide players are expected to chip in with the same, if not more goals themselves. These are formations and styles of play are used by the biggest, most successful clubs not only in this country, but across the whole of Europe, you could argue it's easier when you have the better players to put in the system, but it looks as though this is probably the way Ben garner will be looking for us to play. That was my main point really, that having 4 or 5 strikers is not a necessity in the modern game.
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Post by poorblue on Aug 1, 2020 11:32:43 GMT
Agree three strikers is too low unless the club feel the two young forwards we have that recently signed Pro deals are the goods and can instantly step up to the plate if needed. This however is a gamble and I personally think we definitely need a fourth someone with league experience - Dominic Samuel would be a perfect fit the 3 degrees - Phillips, Hulbert and Warwick.
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