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Post by gasandelectricity on Aug 3, 2020 17:08:56 GMT
Don’t know if it’s lockdown but we don’t half have a load of ‘oh yeah, he’s under contract with us’ players do we
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Post by Qatar Gas on Aug 3, 2020 17:20:24 GMT
Without a doubt these one of these will leave. Someone reminded me on twitter a moment a go that we have Harries as well as Grant for the CDM role. Cant see Abs getting a look in with those about. As for Upson, well I would have listed him last season anyway, and with Zain joining as well as having Barrett I cant see Upson getting a sniff either. Until mid way through last season Grant was a CB along with Harries so for sure I would keep Abs as the experienced defensive midfielder in the squad.
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Post by markczgas on Aug 3, 2020 17:39:17 GMT
When you add the new signings to the players who've already got first team experience then you can see we've probably got too many midfielders. By my reckoning we've got :
3 keepers ( Anssi, VDS and Alex 8 defenders (Hare, Little Leahy Kelly Baldwin Ehmer KIlgour and Harries) 9 midfielers ( Rodman Bennett Nicholson Barrett Upson Ogogo Hargreaves Grant Tomlinson) 3 forwards ( JCH Daly Ayunga)
thats 23, so 2 or 3 probably leaving as Ben said 1 more for sure coming in.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2020 17:46:49 GMT
Sad reality is that even though he’s a great bloke but if abs left the club tomorrow his destination would be league 2, an enforcer is absolutely fine and every team needs one but I have concerns over abs ability with the football, he’s also not disciplined enough to be traditional DM as he’s all action he often would leave gaps exposed.
I’d get rid of both as suspect they are both on a decent wage and we could get better for the money
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 3, 2020 17:55:22 GMT
Sad reality is that even though he’s a great bloke but if abs left the club tomorrow his destination would be league 2, an enforcer is absolutely fine and every team needs one but I have concerns over abs ability with the football, he’s also not disciplined enough to be traditional DM as he’s all action he often would leave gaps exposed. I’d get rid of both as suspect they are both on a decent wage and we could get better for the money To "get rid" now to an L2 side will probably mean we have to contribute at least 50% of their wages, particularly if the £1.5m L2 wage budget is brought in next season.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2020 18:25:34 GMT
Sad reality is that even though he’s a great bloke but if abs left the club tomorrow his destination would be league 2, an enforcer is absolutely fine and every team needs one but I have concerns over abs ability with the football, he’s also not disciplined enough to be traditional DM as he’s all action he often would leave gaps exposed. I’d get rid of both as suspect they are both on a decent wage and we could get better for the money To "get rid" now to an L2 side will probably mean we have to contribute at least 50% of their wages, particularly if the £1.5m L2 wage budget is brought in next season. You’re assuming they won’t agree to a wage cut of course, isn’t there a deadline for wages that count towards the cap?
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Post by wilmslowgas on Aug 3, 2020 18:26:37 GMT
Generally agree with the above.
Ogogo over Upson if one has to leave.
I can't see Rodman playing much next season - so he's probably surplus to requirements.
Bennett? I can't see him playing at all next season - he's definitely surplus to our requirements.
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Post by wertongas on Aug 3, 2020 18:32:21 GMT
like to see both Upson and Ogogo stay,they both add something different to the team, if you loose either of them you loose an option in midfield.
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Post by lpgas1 on Aug 3, 2020 20:14:30 GMT
Bennet is the man to go, hopefully now Swinedon have come up he will go there
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Post by eastgas on Aug 3, 2020 20:56:12 GMT
Keep Ogogo for me. Although he would likely be a squad player I think he is the only high work rate, box to box type midfielder we have. This type of player is needed in every squad, some game situations will occur and we will be needing a player with these attributes. Another thing to consider is this squad will need leaders around the changing room and his character could be valuable in helping the younger players. I like Upson but I think the players we have added to the midfield he will find game time extremely hard to come by.
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 3, 2020 21:27:38 GMT
To "get rid" now to an L2 side will probably mean we have to contribute at least 50% of their wages, particularly if the £1.5m L2 wage budget is brought in next season. You’re assuming they won’t agree to a wage cut of course, isn’t there a deadline for wages that count towards the cap? I sense there's little chance of that happening this summer as the players will have to take big hits, 6 August was the last date set by the EFL.
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Post by TAGas on Aug 3, 2020 21:44:11 GMT
Ogogo for me. He's got that physical presence and grit to rough up players in front of the back 4. He could be an option to bring on against more physical teams as IMO the midfield looks a bit light physically.
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Post by GasAttacK on Aug 3, 2020 21:46:34 GMT
There is nothing concrete to suggest either will leave. Frosty was just guessing on that one.
If one was to go I'm 60/40 in favour of keeping Ogogo but they have very different strengths. Upson is the better footballer so Garner may prefer him.
Get rid of Bennett, bring in one or two more quality additions and we're set for a good season.
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Post by wilkimania on Aug 3, 2020 21:49:03 GMT
All good saying get rid of players xyz but you have to find another team to take them.
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Post by blueblood1883 on Aug 3, 2020 22:20:31 GMT
So just playing devil's advocate.. You've heard from the Cov fans on here who all seem to say the one downside to ZW"s game is his lack or willingness to compete for 50/50 balls.
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing without seeing him, but those opinions were formed after watching him for most of last season.
That puts Ogogo ahead of Upson in the team if we are to play to each others strengths..
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Post by gasandelectricity on Aug 4, 2020 0:38:21 GMT
When you add the new signings to the players who've already got first team experience then you can see we've probably got too many midfielders. By my reckoning we've got : 3 keepers ( Anssi, VDS and Alex 8 defenders (Hare, Little Leahy Kelly Baldwin Ehmer KIlgour and Harries) 9 midfielers ( Rodman Bennett Nicholson Barrett Upson Ogogo Hargreaves Grant Tomlinson) 3 forwards ( JCH Daly Ayunga) thats 23, so 2 or 3 probably leaving as Ben said 1 more for sure coming in. + Davies in defence (even if injured - budget) The midfield is much more youthful compared to the defence. Bennett is a write off. Barrett could be considered a striker, we’d probably want anothe for the wings and another striker I’d say.
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Post by Wembley_Gas on Aug 4, 2020 2:31:40 GMT
When you add the new signings to the players who've already got first team experience then you can see we've probably got too many midfielders. By my reckoning we've got : 3 keepers ( Anssi, VDS and Alex 8 defenders (Hare, Little Leahy Kelly Baldwin Ehmer KIlgour and Harries) 9 midfielers ( Rodman Bennett Nicholson Barrett Upson Ogogo Hargreaves Grant Tomlinson) 3 forwards ( JCH Daly Ayunga) thats 23, so 2 or 3 probably leaving as Ben said 1 more for sure coming in. + Davies in defence (even if injured - budget) The midfield is much more youthful compared to the defence. Bennett is a write off. Barrett could be considered a striker, we’d probably want anothe for the wings and another striker I’d say. Much as I like Tomlinson and hope to see him get more game time the fact that he’s 19 and promoted from our own youth team means we can declare him as one of the non contributing players to the salary cap (my understanding is if they are 21 or under and had at least one season in your youth programme their salaries are exempt from being included in your allowance). Hence Tomlinson along with Hoole, Mehew, Armstrong, Hulbert, Walker, Warwick and Phillips are the free hits in the current squad. When you look at them the obvious missing piece is no Centre Half and that explains why the first positions we nailed down when adding to the senior squad were the central defensive options. The fine tuning that’s left revolves around whether any of our in contract players like Bennett, Ogogo, Upson etc are attracting concrete interest that their agent considers worth pursuing and whether that suits our purpose. Abs, for instance, showed many times last season that he has the stomach for the fight and the engine to get up and down the pitch to do something about it, hence it would have to be a decent offer to make me consider parting with that quality, but if Mansfield Et al were to meet the valuation and there were alternatives that keep the squad balanced and the club on the right side of the wage cap then you can see any deal being done. i don’t expect that when the season starts our squad will be exactly the right balance to take us through the first half of the season...but we have till October to identify where there is little or no depth and sound out some young prem or championship talent that will be loanable at a subsidised salary. They’ll want their starlets having at least some experience of the mans game and whilst we’d rather be developing our own talent we’re going to have to develop somebody else’s where the salary cap leaves us little choice.
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Post by neilv93 on Aug 4, 2020 8:05:54 GMT
So just playing devil's advocate.. You've heard from the Cov fans on here who all seem to say the one downside to ZW"s game is his lack or willingness to compete for 50/50 balls. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing without seeing him, but those opinions were formed after watching him for most of last season. That puts Ogogo ahead of Upson in the team if we are to play to each others strengths.. I think there's no denying Ogogo is the one midfielder we've got that'll definitely put a tackle in. Can't speak of Grant and Westbrooke yet on that front but the latter supposedly not so much according to Cov fans.
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Post by blueridge on Aug 4, 2020 8:34:01 GMT
When you add the new signings to the players who've already got first team experience then you can see we've probably got too many midfielders. By my reckoning we've got : 3 keepers ( Anssi, VDS and Alex 8 defenders (Hare, Little Leahy Kelly Baldwin Ehmer KIlgour and Harries) 9 midfielers ( Rodman Bennett Nicholson Barrett Upson Ogogo Hargreaves Grant Tomlinson) 3 forwards ( JCH Daly Ayunga) thats 23, so 2 or 3 probably leaving as Ben said 1 more for sure coming in. + Davies in defence (even if injured - budget) The midfield is much more youthful compared to the defence. Bennett is a write off. Barrett could be considered a striker, we’d probably want anothe for the wings and another striker I’d say. Ideally IMO it would be good if we could offload Upson, Little & Bennett. The bar has been set fairly high defensively but the weakness we have is LB still - neither are good enough and good teams would exploit that weakness. So for me another LB and another wide player and then good business done.
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Post by markczgas on Aug 4, 2020 8:36:21 GMT
When you add the new signings to the players who've already got first team experience then you can see we've probably got too many midfielders. By my reckoning we've got : 3 keepers ( Anssi, VDS and Alex 8 defenders (Hare, Little Leahy Kelly Baldwin Ehmer KIlgour and Harries) 9 midfielers ( Rodman Bennett Nicholson Barrett Upson Ogogo Hargreaves Grant Tomlinson) 3 forwards ( JCH Daly Ayunga) thats 23, so 2 or 3 probably leaving as Ben said 1 more for sure coming in. + Davies in defence (even if injured - budget) The midfield is much more youthful compared to the defence. Bennett is a write off. Barrett could be considered a striker, we’d probably want anothe for the wings and another striker I’d say. Standards are dropping - no-one noticed I hadn't included Westbrooke so that makes 25. Barrett a striker ? didn't know that.
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