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Post by gascoach on Sept 9, 2020 11:07:06 GMT
My take on last night.
I've had to remind myself it is only 2 competitive fixtures, one against a fancied side and one where we made numerous changes. It's always important to assess objectively not emotively in relation to the result. Too often the result affects opinion of the performance. Whilst yes managers are employed to win games, I've always believed if you get the process right over a long period, the results will come.
I can see what BG is trying to do, its admiral and at first I was so excited by it. I really felt a different formation compared to most other teams, if employed effectively could really give us an advantage. So far it hasn't. I do feel if I was BG and I believed in the system, to back myself and stick with it for another 4/6 weeks. May cost me my job, maybe the best thing hes done if it clicks.
For me though, its just becoming a 5-4-1. The full backs drop in to make it a 5, and I constantly see the 2 number 10's (Zain and Hargreaves) having to sprint like bugger to get out wide and cover the oppo's full back. When we dont have the ball it is just too negative. At one point Jonah had dropped in too. All players 10/15 yards inside our own half. At home. To a league 2 side.
The positives. When we have had "safe" possession and get bodies forward we look far more dangerous. If we are a top top league 1 side, then yes I like the formation but we aren't and we need to find a solution to our off the ball problems and how to turn defence into attack more effectively.
In addition to this and this is not aimed at BG but the players, but one advantage of being deep with 21869126 centre backs on the pitch, we should be able to defend our box. We haven't this well enough at all. Not good enough. Essentially 5-4-1 and we've still conceded 5 goals in 180 mins.
My view would be to play short for 1-3 passes, oppo then press, then into Ayunga with the 2 pocket number 10's playing off him. Gets us up the pitch, we then get our Wing backs higher to give us width.
In terms of last night. Some brief bits
JVS - Decent stand in keeper but the way he went down in stages for the 2nd goal, welcome back Jaakola.
Tutonda - Might go against the general consensus on here but I'm not sold, not quick enough to get into a position to receive the ball, crosses haven't been great.
Mehew - Like him, another good youngster.
Baldwin (last night) - Got pelters from the forum, completely understand BUT he's a CB. The thought would of been he can play in there as he is comfortable on the ball but he isnt a CM. Felt he was hung out to dry a bit last night.
Zain - Great youngster but not quite ready yet. No problems but feel this year will be a development year, not a break into first team year.
Ayunga - We have a player here. Worried a bit after he looked clumsy and stiff at Manor Farm but hes going to be a good'un. Some games he'll shoot from everywhere, not score and frustrate the crowd but I'll stick my neck on the line and say he gets 20 goals if he plays every week.
Hargreaves - Great willingness to work hard and battle but I'm not sure he is creative enough to play more advanced.
Overall, I would personally stick with BG for at least 2 months because I see what he is trying to do, however I completely get the apathy towards him and why people are disgruntled.
Disclaimer - My views may drastically change one week to the next for the first 10 weeks of the season, we can't judge players until we have a number of appearances. Take Ayunga, after Manor Farm I felt I could finish better than him, after last night Im saying 20 goals. Neither are probably right at the moment.
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Post by Dirt Dogg on Sept 9, 2020 11:09:38 GMT
I’m glad you see what BG is trying to do, because the majority of us don’t!
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Post by markczgas on Sept 9, 2020 12:03:09 GMT
I’m glad you see what BG is trying to do, because the majority of us don’t! you're not friends with the Belorussian President, are you ? |
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Post by keygas on Sept 9, 2020 12:09:30 GMT
Just watched the 9 minutes extended highlights on ifollow & apart from the inability to deal with high balls into our area which lead to Walsalls goals, some of our football looked decent.
The passing & movement of players looked a lot better than the dross we watched under Coughlan, let’s hope with addition of a couple of signings results will pick up.
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Post by lastminutewinner on Sept 9, 2020 12:11:15 GMT
Just watched the 9 minutes extended highlights on ifollow & apart from the inability to deal with high balls into our area which lead to Walsalls goals, some of our football looked decent. The passing & movement of players looked a lot better than the dross we watched under Coughlan, let’s hope with addition of a couple of signings results will pick up. This has always been a problem. Their heads move but their feet dont... |
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Post by RD on Sept 9, 2020 12:12:23 GMT
Great post.
And a hell of a lot I agree with.
It really boils down to whether you believe BG will get it right I guess - if you have faith in him.
Let's face it, bar the odd 45 minutes in a friendly and Sunderland last season, we have looked dire for the remainder. As such, I don't see how anyone who has faith in him could have it without it being pretty much blind faith - the factual evidence to date is that Ben Garner is not cut out for football management; certainly at League One level and arguably at all.
That of course doesn't mean it won't change, but my point is that in thinking it might, you're basing it entirely on hope (as there's no factual evidence to pin it on).
I also think he's had a fair bit of time - 20 games. That's pretty much half a season - and we've won 2 games, barely scored any goals and conceded sh*tloads. Yes, this might now be "his" team, but decent managers can still get results with the tools at their disposal. And let's not forget, he took over a team 4th in the league who were in exceptional form. It's actually remarkable how badly he did with that group of players.
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 9, 2020 12:14:05 GMT
"I've always believed if you get the process right over a long period, the results will come."
That's probably the same nonsense BG said to Wael after the match, the truth there's no real signs of progression, playing Baldwin in midfield last night was almost as mad as McGhee playing Virgo as a CF at Wimbledon. In fact playing Baldwin at CF may have been a better option last night!!
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Post by gascoach on Sept 9, 2020 12:16:32 GMT
"I've always believed if you get the process right over a long period, the results will come." That's probably the same nonsense BG said to Wael after the match, the truth there's no real signs of progression, playing Baldwin in midfield last night was almost as mad as McGhee playing Virgo as a CF at Wimbledon. In fact playing Baldwin at CF may have been a better option last night!! I do believe this, however... I'm the process isn't right at the moment. Performances are miles off it. I don't get that decision at all. Feels like hes trying to fit him in. Weird. |
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Post by CrispPusher on Sept 9, 2020 12:21:19 GMT
I’m glad you see what BG is trying to do, because the majority of us don’t! Been playing the rope-a-dope on L1 since Boxing Day ready to spring his trap on Saturday, obviously. Also explains why JCH's replacement won't be announced before then. Genius |
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Post by gascoach on Sept 9, 2020 12:24:46 GMT
Great post. And a hell of a lot I agree with. It really boils down to whether you believe BG will get it right I guess - if you have faith in him. Let's face it, bar the odd 45 minutes in a friendly and Sunderland last season, we have looked dire for the remainder. As such, I don't see how anyone who has faith in him could have it without it being pretty much blind faith - the factual evidence to date is that Ben Garner is not cut out for football management; certainly at League One level and arguably at all. That of course doesn't mean it won't change, but my point is that in thinking it might, you're basing it entirely on hope (as there's no factual evidence to pin it on). I also think he's had a fair bit of time - 20 games. That's pretty much half a season - and we've won 2 games, barely scored any goals and conceded sh*tloads. Yes, this might now be "his" team, but decent managers can still get results with the tools at their disposal. And let's not forget, he took over a team 4th in the league who were in exceptional form. It's actually remarkable how badly he did with that group of players. Everything on the face of it I like, he clearly understands football. However. Something isn't right. I've seen it before with coaches I've had, have all the textbook knowledge in the world but sometimes that doesn't quite work in reality. Feel this is happening with BG, got some great idea's on how to play the game in theory. He trying to be clever with the 3-4-3, he needs to recognise it isn't working. I would still stick with it for now. I don't like last season being thrown in with this season because it is now his team etc but I understand why. There were signs against Cardiff it can work. I do get that it is hope, because the tangible evidence is limited at best, the odd 20 mins spells within games. Whereas the other side there is hard facts on his win record. Which is abysmal at best. |
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Sept 9, 2020 12:36:32 GMT
My take on last night. I've had to remind myself it is only 2 competitive fixtures, one against a fancied side and one where we made numerous changes. It's always important to assess objectively not emotively in relation to the result. Too often the result affects opinion of the performance. Whilst yes managers are employed to win games, I've always believed if you get the process right over a long period, the results will come. I can see what BG is trying to do, its admiral and at first I was so excited by it. I really felt a different formation compared to most other teams, if employed effectively could really give us an advantage. So far it hasn't. I do feel if I was BG and I believed in the system, to back myself and stick with it for another 4/6 weeks. May cost me my job, maybe the best thing hes done if it clicks. For me though, its just becoming a 5-4-1. The full backs drop in to make it a 5, and I constantly see the 2 number 10's (Zain and Hargreaves) having to sprint like bugger to get out wide and cover the oppo's full back. When we dont have the ball it is just too negative. At one point Jonah had dropped in too. All players 10/15 yards inside our own half. At home. To a league 2 side. The positives. When we have had "safe" possession and get bodies forward we look far more dangerous. If we are a top top league 1 side, then yes I like the formation but we aren't and we need to find a solution to our off the ball problems and how to turn defence into attack more effectively. In addition to this and this is not aimed at BG but the players, but one advantage of being deep with 21869126 centre backs on the pitch, we should be able to defend our box. We haven't this well enough at all. Not good enough. Essentially 5-4-1 and we've still conceded 5 goals in 180 mins. My view would be to play short for 1-3 passes, oppo then press, then into Ayunga with the 2 pocket number 10's playing off him. Gets us up the pitch, we then get our Wing backs higher to give us width. In terms of last night. Some brief bits JVS - Decent stand in keeper but the way he went down in stages for the 2nd goal, welcome back Jaakola. Tutonda - Might go against the general consensus on here but I'm not sold, not quick enough to get into a position to receive the ball, crosses haven't been great. Mehew - Like him, another good youngster.
Baldwin (last night) - Got pelters from the forum, completely understand BUT he's a CB. The thought would of been he can play in there as he is comfortable on the ball but he isnt a CM. Felt he was hung out to dry a bit last night. Zain - Great youngster but not quite ready yet. No problems but feel this year will be a development year, not a break into first team year. Ayunga - We have a player here. Worried a bit after he looked clumsy and stiff at Manor Farm but hes going to be a good'un. Some games he'll shoot from everywhere, not score and frustrate the crowd but I'll stick my neck on the line and say he gets 20 goals if he plays every week. Hargreaves - Great willingness to work hard and battle but I'm not sure he is creative enough to play more advanced. Overall, I would personally stick with BG for at least 2 months because I see what he is trying to do, however I completely get the apathy towards him and why people are disgruntled. Disclaimer - My views may drastically change one week to the next for the first 10 weeks of the season, we can't judge players until we have a number of appearances. Take Ayunga, after Manor Farm I felt I could finish better than him, after last night Im saying 20 goals. Neither are probably right at the moment. Most of this is fair enough. The one bit I will say regarding this the Baldwin bit is whilst I agree, a lot of his mistakes have been defensively as well as midfield traits. He looks a lot softer than I was expecting/hoping for. If we play a 2 then I can't see past Kilgour and Ehmer at the moment. I think we are unbalanced at CB though. The three lads last week looked too similar but what would you change with 3 at the back, you can't play Harries just because he is a left sided centre back. I think he looks too soft too. Then you could play Little at RCB but that is again shoving Kilgour to LCB where he looked uncomfortable vs Ipswich. |
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Post by markczgas on Sept 9, 2020 12:39:19 GMT
Gas coach what's your preferred style/formation and your 11 to play it ?
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Post by markczgas on Sept 9, 2020 12:40:58 GMT
My take on last night. I've had to remind myself it is only 2 competitive fixtures, one against a fancied side and one where we made numerous changes. It's always important to assess objectively not emotively in relation to the result. Too often the result affects opinion of the performance. Whilst yes managers are employed to win games, I've always believed if you get the process right over a long period, the results will come. I can see what BG is trying to do, its admiral and at first I was so excited by it. I really felt a different formation compared to most other teams, if employed effectively could really give us an advantage. So far it hasn't. I do feel if I was BG and I believed in the system, to back myself and stick with it for another 4/6 weeks. May cost me my job, maybe the best thing hes done if it clicks. For me though, its just becoming a 5-4-1. The full backs drop in to make it a 5, and I constantly see the 2 number 10's (Zain and Hargreaves) having to sprint like bugger to get out wide and cover the oppo's full back. When we dont have the ball it is just too negative. At one point Jonah had dropped in too. All players 10/15 yards inside our own half. At home. To a league 2 side. The positives. When we have had "safe" possession and get bodies forward we look far more dangerous. If we are a top top league 1 side, then yes I like the formation but we aren't and we need to find a solution to our off the ball problems and how to turn defence into attack more effectively. In addition to this and this is not aimed at BG but the players, but one advantage of being deep with 21869126 centre backs on the pitch, we should be able to defend our box. We haven't this well enough at all. Not good enough. Essentially 5-4-1 and we've still conceded 5 goals in 180 mins. My view would be to play short for 1-3 passes, oppo then press, then into Ayunga with the 2 pocket number 10's playing off him. Gets us up the pitch, we then get our Wing backs higher to give us width. In terms of last night. Some brief bits JVS - Decent stand in keeper but the way he went down in stages for the 2nd goal, welcome back Jaakola. Tutonda - Might go against the general consensus on here but I'm not sold, not quick enough to get into a position to receive the ball, crosses haven't been great. Mehew - Like him, another good youngster.
Baldwin (last night) - Got pelters from the forum, completely understand BUT he's a CB. The thought would of been he can play in there as he is comfortable on the ball but he isnt a CM. Felt he was hung out to dry a bit last night. Zain - Great youngster but not quite ready yet. No problems but feel this year will be a development year, not a break into first team year. Ayunga - We have a player here. Worried a bit after he looked clumsy and stiff at Manor Farm but hes going to be a good'un. Some games he'll shoot from everywhere, not score and frustrate the crowd but I'll stick my neck on the line and say he gets 20 goals if he plays every week. Hargreaves - Great willingness to work hard and battle but I'm not sure he is creative enough to play more advanced. Overall, I would personally stick with BG for at least 2 months because I see what he is trying to do, however I completely get the apathy towards him and why people are disgruntled. Disclaimer - My views may drastically change one week to the next for the first 10 weeks of the season, we can't judge players until we have a number of appearances. Take Ayunga, after Manor Farm I felt I could finish better than him, after last night Im saying 20 goals. Neither are probably right at the moment. Most of this is fair enough. The one bit I will say regarding this the Baldwin bit is whilst I agree, a lot of his mistakes have been defensively as well as midfield traits. He looks a lot softer than I was expecting/hoping for. If we play a 2 then I can't see past Kilgour and Ehmer at the moment. I think we are unbalanced at CB though. The three lads last week looked too similar but what would you change with 3 at the back, you can't play Harries just because he is a left sided centre back. I think he looks too soft too. Then you could play Little at RCB but that is again shoving Kilgour to LCB where he looked uncomfortable vs Ipswich. Kilgour played LCB for the first half of last season - did very well too. |
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Post by markczgas on Sept 9, 2020 12:41:32 GMT
Left of 3 CBs I mean
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 9, 2020 13:00:51 GMT
Let's be honest BG wants to play 3 CB's but we don't have a good enough CB to play at LCB plus I'm sure Ehmer always played alongside a big left sided CH at Gillingham. What I can't understand is why we've never tired 4-4-2 in any of the pre-season/cup games to see if that works any better.
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Post by Langford Gas on Sept 9, 2020 13:13:30 GMT
Great post. And a hell of a lot I agree with. It really boils down to whether you believe BG will get it right I guess - if you have faith in him. Let's face it, bar the odd 45 minutes in a friendly and Sunderland last season, we have looked dire for the remainder. As such, I don't see how anyone who has faith in him could have it without it being pretty much blind faith - the factual evidence to date is that Ben Garner is not cut out for football management; certainly at League One level and arguably at all. That of course doesn't mean it won't change, but my point is that in thinking it might, you're basing it entirely on hope (as there's no factual evidence to pin it on). I also think he's had a fair bit of time - 20 games. That's pretty much half a season - and we've won 2 games, barely scored any goals and conceded sh*tloads. Yes, this might now be "his" team, but decent managers can still get results with the tools at their disposal. And let's not forget, he took over a team 4th in the league who were in exceptional form. It's actually remarkable how badly he did with that group of players. Everything on the face of it I like, he clearly understands football. However. Something isn't right. I've seen it before with coaches I've had, have all the textbook knowledge in the world but sometimes that doesn't quite work in reality. Feel this is happening with BG, got some great idea's on how to play the game in theory. He trying to be clever with the 3-4-3, he needs to recognise it isn't working. I would still stick with it for now. I don't like last season being thrown in with this season because it is now his team etc but I understand why. There were signs against Cardiff it can work. I do get that it is hope, because the tangible evidence is limited at best, the odd 20 mins spells within games. Whereas the other side there is hard facts on his win record. Which is abysmal at best. For me we have signed a lot of players with a lot of potential, the bit that isn't right is 60% of them aren't ready for first team football
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Post by markczgas on Sept 9, 2020 13:38:15 GMT
Everything on the face of it I like, he clearly understands football. However. Something isn't right. I've seen it before with coaches I've had, have all the textbook knowledge in the world but sometimes that doesn't quite work in reality. Feel this is happening with BG, got some great idea's on how to play the game in theory. He trying to be clever with the 3-4-3, he needs to recognise it isn't working. I would still stick with it for now. I don't like last season being thrown in with this season because it is now his team etc but I understand why. There were signs against Cardiff it can work. I do get that it is hope, because the tangible evidence is limited at best, the odd 20 mins spells within games. Whereas the other side there is hard facts on his win record. Which is abysmal at best. For me we have signed a lot of players with a lot of potential, the bit that isn't right is 60% of them aren't ready for first team football
Before a ball has been kicked in the 2020-21 season ! |
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Post by Langford Gas on Sept 9, 2020 14:22:08 GMT
Before a ball has been kicked in the 2020-21 season ! Does it matter? if they are not ready they aren't ready |
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Post by Dirt Dogg on Sept 9, 2020 16:40:41 GMT
I’m glad you see what BG is trying to do, because the majority of us don’t! you're not friends with the Belorussian President, are you ? Why are you talking about his excellency, Supreme Leader Lukashenko like that? |
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Post by lympstonegas on Sept 9, 2020 16:56:26 GMT
you're not friends with the Belorussian President, are you ? Why are you talking about his excellency, Supreme Leader Lukashenko like that? He would destroy Manor Farm as well |
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