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Post by gulfofaden on May 2, 2021 6:24:10 GMT
The Gaschat forum stands against all forms of online bullying and abuse. I am sure that most of you are aware that this weekend football clubs up and down the country will be observing a social media boycott to stand against online abuse. In accordance with this and to stand in support with the EFL and Bristol Rovers football club we intend to close the forum for a short period of time. We will enter maintenance mode between the hours of 5pm and 7pm today. This is a decision that I am sure may stir some debate and one that has been taken with a great deal of consideration. We feel that it is important to take this action but also appreciate that our many members do rely on the service we provide to keep in touch during the game itself. Kind regards From Gaschat Moderating Team. Wow, making a stand against it. With all those hoards of people chanting in the streets in support of online bullying and abuse, this is a unique act and really needs a completely meaningless, token gesture which achieves absolutely nothing. Just be aware, it’s not a stand, a stand infers that someone is uniquely bucking the collective injustice of society. MLK took a stand, taking a stand infers personal risk in the face of backing up ones principles. This is just doing something which 99% of the world agree with. I get this is something everyone is doing, and we want to do it too and don’t want to be the odd ones out. I also agree bullying is bad yada yada but didn’t we know this? I’m sure this was probably created due to an extreme case. A lot of people in today’s world trying to get pats on the head for doing things a normal person just does anyway, wanting some kind of award for doing the absolute basics in being a reasonable human being does. So taking a stand against murder/bullying/rape/racism/homophobia/etc etc isn’t something to brag about.
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Post by Jomo on May 2, 2021 6:56:21 GMT
Gulf, I've kept completely out of this, but who has been looking for a pat on the back? Nobody that I've seen? Just because you stand in support of something that is being done in order to bring the social media powers closer to tackling the issues with online discrimination, doesn't mean you're a sheep and certainly doesn't mean you're looking for gratification. It's just a case of doing something to show you support it. I.e. doing the right thing and not being a dick.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on May 2, 2021 8:08:11 GMT
The Gaschat forum stands against all forms of online bullying and abuse. I am sure that most of you are aware that this weekend football clubs up and down the country will be observing a social media boycott to stand against online abuse. In accordance with this and to stand in support with the EFL and Bristol Rovers football club we intend to close the forum for a short period of time. We will enter maintenance mode between the hours of 5pm and 7pm today. This is a decision that I am sure may stir some debate and one that has been taken with a great deal of consideration. We feel that it is important to take this action but also appreciate that our many members do rely on the service we provide to keep in touch during the game itself. Kind regards From Gaschat Moderating Team. Wow, making a stand against it. With all those hoards of people chanting in the streets in support of online bullying and abuse, this is a unique act and really needs a completely meaningless, token gesture which achieves absolutely nothing. Just be aware, it’s not a stand, a stand infers that someone is uniquely bucking the collective injustice of society. MLK took a stand, taking a stand infers personal risk in the face of backing up ones principles. This is just doing something which 99% of the world agree with. I get this is something everyone is doing, and we want to do it too and don’t want to be the odd ones out. I also agree bullying is bad yada yada but didn’t we know this? I’m sure this was probably created due to an extreme case. A lot of people in today’s world trying to get pats on the head for doing things a normal person just does anyway, wanting some kind of award for doing the absolute basics in being a reasonable human being does. So taking a stand against murder/bullying/rape/racism/homophobia/etc etc isn’t something to brag about. Thank you for your feedback.
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Post by cagastrophy on May 2, 2021 8:13:18 GMT
The Gaschat forum stands against all forms of online bullying and abuse. I am sure that most of you are aware that this weekend football clubs up and down the country will be observing a social media boycott to stand against online abuse. In accordance with this and to stand in support with the EFL and Bristol Rovers football club we intend to close the forum for a short period of time. We will enter maintenance mode between the hours of 5pm and 7pm today. This is a decision that I am sure may stir some debate and one that has been taken with a great deal of consideration. We feel that it is important to take this action but also appreciate that our many members do rely on the service we provide to keep in touch during the game itself. Kind regards From Gaschat Moderating Team. Wow, making a stand against it. With all those hoards of people chanting in the streets in support of online bullying and abuse, this is a unique act and really needs a completely meaningless, token gesture which achieves absolutely nothing. Just be aware, it’s not a stand, a stand infers that someone is uniquely bucking the collective injustice of society. MLK took a stand, taking a stand infers personal risk in the face of backing up ones principles. This is just doing something which 99% of the world agree with. I get this is something everyone is doing, and we want to do it too and don’t want to be the odd ones out. I also agree bullying is bad yada yada but didn’t we know this? I’m sure this was probably created due to an extreme case. A lot of people in today’s world trying to get pats on the head for doing things a normal person just does anyway, wanting some kind of award for doing the absolute basics in being a reasonable human being does. So taking a stand against murder/bullying/rape/racism/homophobia/etc etc isn’t something to brag about. 99%? Depends on the situation, probably more like 60% globally as a hopeful guess. There is an issue and the perpetrators need to know how many people don't agree with them so they understand that their opinions and actions are not acceptable.
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Post by darkbluegas on May 2, 2021 8:23:21 GMT
The Gaschat forum stands against all forms of online bullying and abuse. I am sure that most of you are aware that this weekend football clubs up and down the country will be observing a social media boycott to stand against online abuse. In accordance with this and to stand in support with the EFL and Bristol Rovers football club we intend to close the forum for a short period of time. We will enter maintenance mode between the hours of 5pm and 7pm today. This is a decision that I am sure may stir some debate and one that has been taken with a great deal of consideration. We feel that it is important to take this action but also appreciate that our many members do rely on the service we provide to keep in touch during the game itself. Kind regards From Gaschat Moderating Team. Wow, making a stand against it. With all those hoards of people chanting in the streets in support of online bullying and abuse, this is a unique act and really needs a completely meaningless, token gesture which achieves absolutely nothing. Just be aware, it’s not a stand, a stand infers that someone is uniquely bucking the collective injustice of society. MLK took a stand, taking a stand infers personal risk in the face of backing up ones principles. This is just doing something which 99% of the world agree with. I get this is something everyone is doing, and we want to do it too and don’t want to be the odd ones out. I also agree bullying is bad yada yada but didn’t we know this? I’m sure this was probably created due to an extreme case. A lot of people in today’s world trying to get pats on the head for doing things a normal person just does anyway, wanting some kind of award for doing the absolute basics in being a reasonable human being does. So taking a stand against murder/bullying/rape/racism/homophobia/etc etc isn’t something to brag about. Sadly it’s the way of our world. It’s being seen to do the right thing, tick the box. I’ve been in the position of intervening on the Blackthorn End when a so say Gashead has ripped into a fellow supporter physically threatening and bullying another. Did I get any support from those around me, what do you think? Yet I imagine all those would sagely nod at the awfulness of racism and bullying but really would rather not get involved
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gruad
Reserve Team
Posts: 325
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Post by gruad on May 2, 2021 15:32:02 GMT
I would say this is a pretty nice forum.
As an example BG was being attacked for a bad run of results but that seemed to stop when he was off with family problems.
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Post by gulfofaden on May 2, 2021 17:09:59 GMT
Gulf, I've kept completely out of this, but who has been looking for a pat on the back? Nobody that I've seen? Just because you stand in support of something that is being done in order to bring the social media powers closer to tackling the issues with online discrimination, doesn't mean you're a sheep and certainly doesn't mean you're looking for gratification. It's just a case of doing something to show you support it. I.e. doing the right thing and not being a dick. By tackling the issue do you mean “censoring and punishing people”? What could go wrong with that system! I wonder how/who gets to define what’s abuse and what’s qualified criticism? Thin end of the wedge, brought forth by utilising peoples altruism. The social media powers are already censoring - and it isn’t based on hate, it’s any view Facebook doesn’t like. On an office quotes page, you can’t write “women are dirty” (a quote from the show) If you’re comfortable with the above statement being qualified as hatespeech, then all power to you. I would say it’s less about being a dick, more about not really thinking through the consequences. It should be about personal abuse, attacks, but you have to be a complete despot to think you have the right to take action about people’s views you don’t like. It’s morally reprehensible. The potential for abuse of this system is enormous, if it was just about stopping genuinely harmful activity that would be fine, but it already isn’t. It’s often a mechanism for the spiteful to misrepresent others points of view and use a straw man to wield their political will on others. If it’s just about victimising people then yes. But it isn’t, it’s selective. The issue is, if you are anti censorship then the assumption is that you’re complicit and you want the right to be rude to people. It isn’t, it’s a recognition that handing the right to ban people’s points of view has an evil within it which is so potent, it dwarfs the potential of offence from a stupid view. If it’s literally a threatening campaign then of course, that’s different.
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Post by oldie on May 2, 2021 18:43:58 GMT
Gulf, I've kept completely out of this, but who has been looking for a pat on the back? Nobody that I've seen? Just because you stand in support of something that is being done in order to bring the social media powers closer to tackling the issues with online discrimination, doesn't mean you're a sheep and certainly doesn't mean you're looking for gratification. It's just a case of doing something to show you support it. I.e. doing the right thing and not being a dick. By tackling the issue do you mean “censoring and punishing people”? What could go wrong with that system! I wonder how/who gets to define what’s abuse and what’s qualified criticism? Thin end of the wedge, brought forth by utilising peoples altruism. The social media powers are already censoring - and it isn’t based on hate, it’s any view Facebook doesn’t like. On an office quotes page, you can’t write “women are dirty” (a quote from the show) If you’re comfortable with the above statement being qualified as hatespeech, then all power to you. I would say it’s less about being a dick, more about not really thinking through the consequences. It should be about personal abuse, attacks, but you have to be a complete despot to think you have the right to take action about people’s views you don’t like. It’s morally reprehensible. The potential for abuse of this system is enormous, if it was just about stopping genuinely harmful activity that would be fine, but it already isn’t. It’s often a mechanism for the spiteful to misrepresent others points of view and use a straw man to wield their political will on others. If it’s just about victimising people then yes. But it isn’t, it’s selective. The issue is, if you are anti censorship then the assumption is that you’re complicit and you want the right to be rude to people. It isn’t, it’s a recognition that handing the right to ban people’s points of view has an evil within it which is so potent, it dwarfs the potential of offence from a stupid view. If it’s literally a threatening campaign then of course, that’s different. Initially, instinctively, I was uncomfortable with your first post on this thread. But, I can find little to disagree with on these comments. You are not alone.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on May 2, 2021 20:43:09 GMT
Et tu Oldie?
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Post by oldie on May 2, 2021 21:23:39 GMT
Its not black or white (excuse the Choice of words) and I have no objections to the stance taken by you and the mods on this issue. But I am against censorship so have some sympathy with gulfofadens remarks.
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Post by Westy on May 3, 2021 0:45:23 GMT
The Gaschat forum stands against all forms of online bullying and abuse. I am sure that most of you are aware that this weekend football clubs up and down the country will be observing a social media boycott to stand against online abuse. In accordance with this and to stand in support with the EFL and Bristol Rovers football club we intend to close the forum for a short period of time. We will enter maintenance mode between the hours of 5pm and 7pm today. This is a decision that I am sure may stir some debate and one that has been taken with a great deal of consideration. We feel that it is important to take this action but also appreciate that our many members do rely on the service we provide to keep in touch during the game itself. Kind regards From Gaschat Moderating Team. Wow, making a stand against it. With all those hoards of people chanting in the streets in support of online bullying and abuse, this is a unique act and really needs a completely meaningless, token gesture which achieves absolutely nothing. Just be aware, it’s not a stand, a stand infers that someone is uniquely bucking the collective injustice of society. MLK took a stand, taking a stand infers personal risk in the face of backing up ones principles. This is just doing something which 99% of the world agree with. I get this is something everyone is doing, and we want to do it too and don’t want to be the odd ones out. I also agree bullying is bad yada yada but didn’t we know this? I’m sure this was probably created due to an extreme case. A lot of people in today’s world trying to get pats on the head for doing things a normal person just does anyway, wanting some kind of award for doing the absolute basics in being a reasonable human being does. So taking a stand against murder/bullying/rape/racism/homophobia/etc etc isn’t something to brag about. Someone watered in your cereal?
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Post by socrates on May 3, 2021 1:02:10 GMT
UTG
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Post by axegas on May 3, 2021 1:38:24 GMT
The Gaschat forum stands against all forms of online bullying and abuse. I am sure that most of you are aware that this weekend football clubs up and down the country will be observing a social media boycott to stand against online abuse. In accordance with this and to stand in support with the EFL and Bristol Rovers football club we intend to close the forum for a short period of time. We will enter maintenance mode between the hours of 5pm and 7pm today. This is a decision that I am sure may stir some debate and one that has been taken with a great deal of consideration. We feel that it is important to take this action but also appreciate that our many members do rely on the service we provide to keep in touch during the game itself. Kind regards From Gaschat Moderating Team. Wow, making a stand against it. With all those hoards of people chanting in the streets in support of online bullying and abuse, this is a unique act and really needs a completely meaningless, token gesture which achieves absolutely nothing. Just be aware, it’s not a stand, a stand infers that someone is uniquely bucking the collective injustice of society. MLK took a stand, taking a stand infers personal risk in the face of backing up ones principles. This is just doing something which 99% of the world agree with. I get this is something everyone is doing, and we want to do it too and don’t want to be the odd ones out. I also agree bullying is bad yada yada but didn’t we know this? I’m sure this was probably created due to an extreme case. A lot of people in today’s world trying to get pats on the head for doing things a normal person just does anyway, wanting some kind of award for doing the absolute basics in being a reasonable human being does. So taking a stand against murder/bullying/rape/racism/homophobia/etc etc isn’t something to brag about. Taking a stand and standing against something mean two separate things, you correctly stated what taking a stand means, but Hugo said stands against which actually just means being against something, try not to get your whiskers twisted over the terminology. As Jomo said, this isn’t about getting pats on the head either, just reinforcing a message that needs to be reinforced. By the debate had on here and in the wider football community I would say it’s job done on that front.
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Post by axegas on May 3, 2021 2:27:12 GMT
I think what some people have to understand is that the context behind this boycott is some black high profile footballers have repeatedly received horrendous messages from “supporters” on the basis of the colour of their skin. This shouldn’t degenerate into a debate around censorship, because I think we can all agree that such messages are vile, and the ones writing them should feel the consequences of their actions. We aren’t talking about borderline off the cuff remarks here but full blown incidences of deliberate racial abuse, like what Mark Little unfortunately dealt with a few months back. Taking action against messages like those isn’t censorship but common sense. Sure, you can point to 101 cases of cancel culture going too far or whatever, but that’s really not applicable where these most severe of incidents are concerned.
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Post by baggins on May 3, 2021 5:17:50 GMT
I don't mean to simplify this situation, but for all the knee bending, banners & t-shirts, how many people have been arrested and prosecuted for posting abuse? With the technical ability from the Companies who host these media platforms it can't be that hard to track these people down. Maybe dragging names and addresses into the public eye may make others think twice about following suit?
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Post by gulfofaden on May 3, 2021 6:06:23 GMT
I don't mean to simplify this situation, but for all the knee bending, banners & t-shirts, how many people have been arrested and prosecuted for posting abuse? With the technical ability from the Companies who host these media platforms it can't be that hard to track these people down. Maybe dragging names and addresses into the public eye may make others think twice about following suit? The question would then be, do we merely enforce it when high profile wealthy footballers receive memes and unpleasant messages? Or do we do it every time anyone gets abuse, racial or otherwise? If it happens for say, posting an offensive cartoon, what happens for a tirade of personal hate which includes references to family members etc? People had street parties when thatcher died, not that I am some flag bearer for Thatcher but surely that’s a hate crime. A celebration of someone’s death.... Before long anyone making an edgy joke would be getting a knock - or whoever made the “wrong” edgy joke. Personally I think if it’s a campaign of personal abuse of whatever type, that is in effect criminal harrasment. Regardless, anyone who makes stupid racist memes should be publicly laughed at, it’s the legal side which makes me a bit uneasy. SM platforms should just ban people who do it. Whether they should get a knock from the authorities rests with the nature of it, whether it was sustained and had credible threats attached or whether it was clearly a joke/provocation with no substance. If it’s just merely an attempt to upset someone and one incident then banning their account seems the logical first step.
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Post by baggins on May 3, 2021 6:32:38 GMT
I don't mean to simplify this situation, but for all the knee bending, banners & t-shirts, how many people have been arrested and prosecuted for posting abuse? With the technical ability from the Companies who host these media platforms it can't be that hard to track these people down. Maybe dragging names and addresses into the public eye may make others think twice about following suit? The question would then be, do we merely enforce it when high profile wealthy footballers receive memes and unpleasant messages? Or do we do it every time anyone gets abuse, racial or otherwise? If it happens for say, posting an offensive cartoon, what happens for a tirade of personal hate which includes references to family members etc? People had street parties when thatcher died, not that I am some flag bearer for Thatcher but surely that’s a hate crime. A celebration of someone’s death.... Before long anyone making an edgy joke would be getting a knock - or whoever made the “wrong” edgy joke. Personally I think if it’s a campaign of personal abuse of whatever type, that is in effect criminal harrasment. Regardless, anyone who makes stupid racist memes should be publicly laughed at, it’s the legal side which makes me a bit uneasy. SM platforms should just ban people who do it. Whether they should get a knock from the authorities rests with the nature of it, whether it was sustained and had credible threats attached or whether it was clearly a joke/provocation with no substance. If it’s just merely an attempt to upset someone and one incident then banning their account seems the logical first step. I guess having defined rules as to what is and what isn't abuse would be a start, but that's going to be a hard day at the Office for someone to work out. Same goes for sexual harassment. I can't see this being sorted and going away for quite some time.
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Post by gulfofaden on May 3, 2021 6:53:47 GMT
The question would then be, do we merely enforce it when high profile wealthy footballers receive memes and unpleasant messages? Or do we do it every time anyone gets abuse, racial or otherwise? If it happens for say, posting an offensive cartoon, what happens for a tirade of personal hate which includes references to family members etc? People had street parties when thatcher died, not that I am some flag bearer for Thatcher but surely that’s a hate crime. A celebration of someone’s death.... Before long anyone making an edgy joke would be getting a knock - or whoever made the “wrong” edgy joke. Personally I think if it’s a campaign of personal abuse of whatever type, that is in effect criminal harrasment. Regardless, anyone who makes stupid racist memes should be publicly laughed at, it’s the legal side which makes me a bit uneasy. SM platforms should just ban people who do it. Whether they should get a knock from the authorities rests with the nature of it, whether it was sustained and had credible threats attached or whether it was clearly a joke/provocation with no substance. If it’s just merely an attempt to upset someone and one incident then banning their account seems the logical first step. I guess having defined rules as to what is and what isn't abuse would be a start, but that's going to be a hard day at the Office for someone to work out. Same goes for sexual harassment. I can't see this being sorted and going away for quite some time. There is a really simple answer. Allow verified SM where you need to actually prove your ID. This would stop 99% because you aren’t talking anonymously. Then, have uncensored free for all sites which purely monitor for outright criminality but don’t intervene for “opinion based” just for letter of the law crimes. Enshrine the right to free speech in law to prevent it being used disproportionately and just accept that some people will be racist, some will be sexist, and some will be downright stupid. Resist the will to get them imprisoned and prosecuted, and just accept that some people are stupid. I’ve seen some horrible comments about boomers (I am not one) along the lines of “hope they all die off, they’ve ruined the world etc, virus is doing some good at least” quite a few times on SM with no uproar. These are people’s parents, who loved us and cared for us. It upsets me a bit, but I would be a horrible petty man if I insisted these people had a knock from authorities, lost their job, that would be essentially bullying. It seems there’s no issue with the above being said openly. I don’t really care that much I’m just saying as an example of stuff that hacks me off but you just have to accept it. I also have a mixed race family, but if someone said the wrong thing, we just think they’re dicks, we wouldn’t want them in front of a judge. That, to me, is even more spiteful than the act. Right, had to get my free speech tirade off my chest, it just really worries me what we are getting ourselves into. Yes, bringing people to justice seems good on first glance but it’s a world of sh** we could get ourselves into.
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Post by Jomo on May 3, 2021 7:20:57 GMT
I guess having defined rules as to what is and what isn't abuse would be a start, but that's going to be a hard day at the Office for someone to work out. Same goes for sexual harassment. I can't see this being sorted and going away for quite some time. There is a really simple answer. Allow verified SM where you need to actually prove your ID. This would stop 99% because you aren’t talking anonymously. Then, have uncensored free for all sites which purely monitor for outright criminality but don’t intervene for “opinion based” just for letter of the law crimes. Enshrine the right to free speech in law to prevent it being used disproportionately and just accept that some people will be racist, some will be sexist, and some will be downright stupid. Resist the will to get them imprisoned and prosecuted, and just accept that some people are stupid. I’ve seen some horrible comments about boomers (I am not one) along the lines of “hope they all die off, they’ve ruined the world etc, virus is doing some good at least” quite a few times on SM with no uproar. These are people’s parents, who loved us and cared for us. It upsets me a bit, but I would be a horrible petty man if I insisted these people had a knock from authorities, lost their job, that would be essentially bullying. It seems there’s no issue with the above being said openly. I don’t really care that much I’m just saying as an example of stuff that hacks me off but you just have to accept it. I also have a mixed race family, but if someone said the wrong thing, we just think they’re dicks, we wouldn’t want them in front of a judge. That, to me, is even more spiteful than the act. Right, had to get my free speech tirade off my chest, it just really worries me what we are getting ourselves into. Yes, bringing people to justice seems good on first glance but it’s a world of sh** we could get ourselves into. Good post gulf, I do really respect your views and the way you put them across, even if I don't necessarily agree whole heartedly with all of them. I do completely get where you're coming from regarding free speech and I agree that it's a complicated and dangerous path to go down. But then again I also don't like that people can simply contact people through social media and vent their vile hate speech at them, without any fear for the consequences, and I include hate speech about age groups as well as sexuality or race, even appearance come to think of it. I'm a heterosexual white male in my mid 30s, so pretty much as far away from a minority that would suffer the type of hate speech that seems to have become so common. That being said, if someone came up to me in a pub and started shouted vile obscenities to me about my appearance, sexuality, race, character, anything, then I would expect there to be some consequences for that person, even a simple warning from the landlord to pipe down, or perhaps being ejected from the building. Either that or it would no doubt escalate in other ways and then more would get thrown out. Ultimately though in "real life" people know generally what can and can't be said in public and so they generally know what the line is between what is and isn't acceptable. Hence I believe they turn to the sanctuary of social media to spout it, where they know they face no consequences, and yet the people suffering the abuse just have to accept that they're dicks? I don't know what the answer is as I do accept your point, but I want there to be some consequences for people that think it's acceptable to be a horrible nasty hateful person to someone else. I'm not saying it should be prison or anything like that, but it shouldn't just be allowed to run free and accepted.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on May 3, 2021 7:26:22 GMT
Free speech is a myth.
There is no such thing.
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