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Scotland
May 10, 2021 13:40:55 GMT
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Post by stuart1974 on May 10, 2021 13:40:55 GMT
The UN isn't what it was briefly in the early 90s, some diplomatic levers and legitimacy on peacekeeping missions but seriously in need of reform. Bosnia was horrendous, had a keen interest throughout the 90s. Srebrenica showed the limitations of UN influence, your boys from North Wales showed how it could be done, even with a rather liberal interpretation of the rules of engagement. Yep,what's happened increasingly is the major powers act out side the UN ,yep the North Wales troops were outstandingly brave and imagine the carnage if they hadn't stepped up and indeed Blair had not ordered air strikes,perhaps his finest hour. I was thinking of Gorazde in 1994 which would have been John Major, Blair was Kosovo later on. Both did a good job although for me Blair's best time was the Sierra Leone intervention. Funnily enough, both exceeded the UN mandate. |
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Scotland
May 10, 2021 13:56:52 GMT
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Post by trevorgas on May 10, 2021 13:56:52 GMT
Yep,what's happened increasingly is the major powers act out side the UN ,yep the North Wales troops were outstandingly brave and imagine the carnage if they hadn't stepped up and indeed Blair had not ordered air strikes,perhaps his finest hour. I was thinking of Gorazde in 1994 which would have been John Major, Blair was Kosovo later on. Both did a good job although for me Blair's best time was the Sierra Leone intervention. Funnily enough, both exceeded the UN mandate. Aye getting my dates all mixed up ,begs the question what's the point of the UN?? |
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Scotland
May 17, 2021 22:30:32 GMT
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Post by stuart1974 on May 17, 2021 22:30:32 GMT
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Scotland
May 18, 2021 6:27:27 GMT
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Post by oldie on May 18, 2021 6:27:27 GMT
Is it more a question of calling the bluff of the voters in Scotland? |
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Scotland
May 18, 2021 6:35:14 GMT
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Post by trevorgas on May 18, 2021 6:35:14 GMT
Is it more a question of calling the bluff of the voters in Scotland? Yep that was my view a month ago. |
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Post by stuart1974 on May 18, 2021 7:30:38 GMT
Is it more a question of calling the bluff of the voters in Scotland? That would be the next stage, I'm not convinced she wants one yet as the circumstances are not quite there. If Boris agreed with a set date of say 2022 that would be too soon for her. I'd also insist on a divorce agreement being ready first so the voters had a genuine idea of the implications and allow Scots across the UK to vote. He won't do the former though for obvious reasons. |
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Scotland
May 18, 2021 7:58:26 GMT
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Post by oldie on May 18, 2021 7:58:26 GMT
Is it more a question of calling the bluff of the voters in Scotland? That would be the next stage, I'm not convinced she wants one yet as the circumstances are not quite there. If Boris agreed with a set date of say 2022 that would be too soon for her. I'd also insist on a divorce agreement being ready first so the voters had a genuine idea of the implications and allow Scots across the UK to vote. He won't do the former though for obvious reasons. Broadening it out. Surely the democratic answer is a federation of States? One where huge cross State liabilities, such as defense, are shared, but a huge element of fiscal autonomy is devolved down to each State? An anathema to Brexiteers of course but one which has worked quite well in the USA. |
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Post by trevorgas on May 18, 2021 8:28:56 GMT
Is it more a question of calling the bluff of the voters in Scotland? That would be the next stage, I'm not convinced she wants one yet as the circumstances are not quite there. If Boris agreed with a set date of say 2022 that would be too soon for her. I'd also insist on a divorce agreement being ready first so the voters had a genuine idea of the implications and allow Scots across the UK to vote. He won't do the former though for obvious reasons. No she doesn't that's why it's best to do it pdq ,removes her argument that the government are defying the will of the people. Agree set out the consequences clearly: No pound Immediate end of Barnet formula. No Queen as head of state. Border controls and tariffs if rejoining the EU. Share of the pandemic debt. Withdrawal of all armed forces and closure of bases. Etc etc Dont want this dominating British politics for next 5 years. |
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Scotland
May 18, 2021 9:01:11 GMT
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Post by oldie on May 18, 2021 9:01:11 GMT
That would be the next stage, I'm not convinced she wants one yet as the circumstances are not quite there. If Boris agreed with a set date of say 2022 that would be too soon for her. I'd also insist on a divorce agreement being ready first so the voters had a genuine idea of the implications and allow Scots across the UK to vote. He won't do the former though for obvious reasons. No she doesn't that's why it's best to do it pdq ,removes her argument that the government are defying the will of the people. Agree set out the consequences clearly: No pound Immediate end of Barnet formula. No Queen as head of state. Border controls and tariffs if rejoining the EU. Share of the pandemic debt. Withdrawal of all armed forces and closure of bases. Etc etc Dont want this dominating British politics for next 5 years. The trouble with that Clive is that it reads like a threat. Surely its in all our interests to manage this democratic aspiration for the benefit of all.... |
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Scotland
May 18, 2021 11:22:54 GMT
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Post by baggins on May 18, 2021 11:22:54 GMT
No she doesn't that's why it's best to do it pdq ,removes her argument that the government are defying the will of the people. Agree set out the consequences clearly: No pound Immediate end of Barnet formula. No Queen as head of state. Border controls and tariffs if rejoining the EU. Share of the pandemic debt. Withdrawal of all armed forces and closure of bases. Etc etc Dont want this dominating British politics for next 5 years. The trouble with that Clive is that it reads like a threat. Surely its in all our interests to manage this democratic aspiration for the benefit of all.... Since when did a Tory Gvt concern itself with the benefit of all? |
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Post by trevorgas on May 18, 2021 12:53:34 GMT
No she doesn't that's why it's best to do it pdq ,removes her argument that the government are defying the will of the people. Agree set out the consequences clearly: No pound Immediate end of Barnet formula. No Queen as head of state. Border controls and tariffs if rejoining the EU. Share of the pandemic debt. Withdrawal of all armed forces and closure of bases. Etc etc Dont want this dominating British politics for next 5 years. The trouble with that Clive is that it reads like a threat. Surely its in all our interests to manage this democratic aspiration for the benefit of all.... Agree the way I ve set it out,I am sure it would be finessed accordingly. This is like Brexit they can't be outside the UK and have the economic/welfare benefits they currently enjoy,isn't that what Remainers told leavers . I see nothing wrong in clearly setting out the pros and cons of Independence which would be much more factual than all the rubbish we had to contend with during the Brexit debate. If folk vote to be worse off under independence then as we know that is there inalienable right . |
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