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Post by straighouttabristol on Jul 15, 2021 10:39:55 GMT
Whether your a ‘conspiracist’ or not you can’t look at the way the government and the media have handled the pandemic and the figures and embezzling funds and not think somethings fishy with it all. I’m not an anti Vaxer but I’m pro choice so I think the whole vaccine passport shouldn’t be allowed. Also they keep changing the symptoms in flu season it was the same as flu symptoms and now it’s hay fever season they released more symptoms which are identical to hayfever.
If the pandemic was that bad the media and government would be trying to calm everyone down not scaremonger us and the hospitals would be at breaking point the death rates would be way higher than they are.
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Post by RD on Jul 15, 2021 10:40:57 GMT
Then maybe conspiracy corner needs to up its game. I actually love a good conspiracy and have no doubt there are elements of truth in some of them but its a very short leap in narrative from that to calling the Tories are a tyranny and claiming aeroplanes are making the frogs gay. Deary me, another smear and lie at the end there that I'm sure critical thinkers can see through. It's you that needs to "up your game ". Pirate you don't get to come on here and shout "educate yourself" because you've watched some utter crackpots on YouTube state some ridiculous, made up conspiracy. Likewise, reading a "science paper" by someone ousted by the scientific community does not mean you've got some major scoop. I can guarantee you have no background WHATSOEVER in Science. Zero. So don't you dare turn round to those that do and say "educate yourself".
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Post by RD on Jul 15, 2021 10:46:47 GMT
Says the man who openly admits he doesn't leave the house ffs 😂 Bring me online with this please? I hope not otherwise I am going to be lonely later! Lol. I genuinely have no idea? Perhaps I've joked elsewhere on here or RD has made an honest mistake? I'm good for it bro.😉[/quote] You're quite right - apologies - I've looked back and it was Twerton1992 or something like that, sorry.
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Post by stuart1974 on Jul 15, 2021 10:47:38 GMT
Did a bit of research on the 77th brigade, turns out they work to counter COVID misinformation. Now I see why the conspiracy theorists are so keen to spin a narrative against them. They are hardly going to say we are using your tax payer money to troll, gaslight and wage psychological war on the general public. Clearly you aren't going to believe anything to the contrary, but for the benefit of others here I'll just say Axe's understanding is correct.
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Post by LJG on Jul 15, 2021 10:55:28 GMT
I think we're talking slight at cross purposes. I don't doubt the efficacy of the vaccines nor the public benefits to having it. What I'm reading in this thread is more concern about the carrying of the passport as proof of vaccination which is a different issue. That would be de facto an ID card to allow access to public life. That is not an insignificant step in the history of this country. Its a compromise, on the journey of wresting back control from this virus. Personally I have no problem showing my vaccine status, or my test results. Just as I have no problem showing my driving licence when requested in a traffic stop. A degree of consent is required in any democracy that does not govern by force. The thing with showing your health status to a venue or travel facility is that the process is a pain in the ass to the provider. Costly and unproductive. In the end this will kill it, as soon as we agree the worse of this pandemic is behind us. I would never carry an ID Card as a point of principle, for the record. Equally I would break the law if the current bill going through Parliament is passed as it is currently worded. Like I said the driving licence analogy doesn't quite fit on account of it is easier to choose not to drive than it is to choose to effectively be outside normal society. What all of this ignores is borderline cases. One example (I'm sure there are others) - there are not firm answers around the vaccine and breastfeeding mothers. The risks of covid to mother and child are known and assessable. The risks of the vaccine to the breastfed child are largely unknown and unquantifiable - my wife and I have been asking and searching extensively but the answers just aren't there. On that basis the weight of the decision comes down on the side of known risks vs the unknown. With that being the case my wife will probably not have the vaccine for at least another six months. So, it seems like the upshot of that is that she must accept that she cannot partake in normal life for that time. She would like to attend the odd Rovers game, certainly would like to go to the pub, we don't know yet but she may be prevented from visiting certain shops or shopping centres. It is a massive removal of liberty and, as was my original point, people who have some scepticism of it aren't anti-vaxxers or conspiracy theorists just for that reason.
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Post by baggins on Jul 15, 2021 10:55:43 GMT
Whether your a ‘conspiracist’ or not you can’t look at the way the government and the media have handled the pandemic and the figures and embezzling funds and not think somethings fishy with it all. I’m not an anti Vaxer but I’m pro choice so I think the whole vaccine passport shouldn’t be allowed. Also they keep changing the symptoms in flu season it was the same as flu symptoms and now it’s hay fever season they released more symptoms which are identical to hayfever. If the pandemic was that bad the media and government would be trying to calm everyone down not scaremonger us and the hospitals would be at breaking point the death rates would be way higher than they are. The pandemic WAS that bad, what, 8 months ago? And the hospitals were at breaking point, and there's been 128,000 deaths. Sounds pretty serious to me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2021 10:57:50 GMT
Whether your a ‘conspiracist’ or not you can’t look at the way the government and the media have handled the pandemic and the figures and embezzling funds and not think somethings fishy with it all. I’m not an anti Vaxer but I’m pro choice so I think the whole vaccine passport shouldn’t be allowed. Also they keep changing the symptoms in flu season it was the same as flu symptoms and now it’s hay fever season they released more symptoms which are identical to hayfever. If the pandemic was that bad the media and government would be trying to calm everyone down not scaremonger us and the hospitals would be at breaking point the death rates would be way higher than they are. Are you for real?
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Post by trevorgas on Jul 15, 2021 11:00:00 GMT
Whether your a ‘conspiracist’ or not you can’t look at the way the government and the media have handled the pandemic and the figures and embezzling funds and not think somethings fishy with it all. I’m not an anti Vaxer but I’m pro choice so I think the whole vaccine passport shouldn’t be allowed. Also they keep changing the symptoms in flu season it was the same as flu symptoms and now it’s hay fever season they released more symptoms which are identical to hayfever. If the pandemic was that bad the media and government would be trying to calm everyone down not scaremonger us and the hospitals would be at breaking point the death rates would be way higher than they are. Has anyone actually embezzled funds,there might be questions over some Contracts but that's a very different issue to embezzlement. As for the Conspiracy,nobody ever gives a sound reason as to who the beneficiaries are and how in today's media driven world they whoever they are manage to keep it all so quiet
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Post by oldie on Jul 15, 2021 11:01:21 GMT
Whether your a ‘conspiracist’ or not you can’t look at the way the government and the media have handled the pandemic and the figures and embezzling funds and not think somethings fishy with it all. I’m not an anti Vaxer but I’m pro choice so I think the whole vaccine passport shouldn’t be allowed. Also they keep changing the symptoms in flu season it was the same as flu symptoms and now it’s hay fever season they released more symptoms which are identical to hayfever. If the pandemic was that bad the media and government would be trying to calm everyone down not scaremonger us and the hospitals would be at breaking point the death rates would be way higher than they are. Are you for real? Certainly the command of the English Language is not real in his case.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2021 11:06:23 GMT
All the conspiracy theorys on here take me back to the biggest medical scandal ever. The MMR vaccine (rubella) for children. This was claimed at the time caused autism in children and led to thousands upon thousands of parents refusing to have their children vaccinated. This was clearly proved to not be the case and in the subsequent years the originators report was thrown out and confined to the bin. And yet today there are still people who quote this totally discredited paper as fact.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 15, 2021 11:10:26 GMT
Deary me, another smear and lie at the end there that I'm sure critical thinkers can see through. It's you that needs to "up your game ". Pirate you don't get to come on here and shout "educate yourself" because you've watched some utter crackpots on YouTube state some ridiculous, made up conspiracy. Likewise, reading a "science paper" by someone ousted by the scientific community does mean you've got some major scoop. I can guarantee you have no background WHATSOEVER in Science. Zero. So don't you dare turn round to those that do and say "educate yourself". The National Academies of Sciences in the US and scientists at Harvard working on Geoengeneering projects are hardly ones "ousted by the scientific community". As you have avoided all the facts from my original post refuting your nonsense, I'll not sidetrack the thread any further and leave you to the ad hominem attacks and smears and trust that the critical thinkers among us can see through it. Have a good day.
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Post by bluebiro on Jul 15, 2021 11:12:38 GMT
Listen to the govt to wear masks. Dont listen when they tell you don't. Everyone has their own line in the sand
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Post by oldie on Jul 15, 2021 11:14:11 GMT
Its a compromise, on the journey of wresting back control from this virus. Personally I have no problem showing my vaccine status, or my test results. Just as I have no problem showing my driving licence when requested in a traffic stop. A degree of consent is required in any democracy that does not govern by force. The thing with showing your health status to a venue or travel facility is that the process is a pain in the ass to the provider. Costly and unproductive. In the end this will kill it, as soon as we agree the worse of this pandemic is behind us. I would never carry an ID Card as a point of principle, for the record. Equally I would break the law if the current bill going through Parliament is passed as it is currently worded. Like I said the driving licence analogy doesn't quite fit on account of it is easier to choose not to drive than it is to choose to effectively be outside normal society. What all of this ignores is borderline cases. One example (I'm sure there are others) - there are not firm answers around the vaccine and breastfeeding mothers. The risks of covid to mother and child are known and assessable. The risks of the vaccine to the breastfed child are largely unknown and unquantifiable - my wife and I have been asking and searching extensively but the answers just aren't there. On that basis the weight of the decision comes down on the side of known risks vs the unknown. With that being the case my wife will probably not have the vaccine for at least another six months. So, it seems like the upshot of that is that she must accept that she cannot partake in normal life for that time. She would like to attend the odd Rovers game, certainly would like to go to the pub, we don't know yet but she may be prevented from visiting certain shops or shopping centres. It is a massive removal of liberty and, as was my original point, people who have some scepticism of it aren't anti-vaxxers or conspiracy theorists just for that reason. Hang on LJG So now you are questioning the vaccine? I can fully understand why your wife would want to challenge the safety of any vaccine if pregnant or indeed planning to be. But to put it simplistically vaccines promote an immune response and our natural biological processes produce the antibodies, and a "memory" in the form of T Cells. If your wife becomes infected with Covid the exact same thing happens. But, with a live virus which is replicating rapidly in your wife's body. Which of these processes is the most threatening to your wife and her unborn child? Lastly, its a rather bizarre logic to not have the vaccine for fear of side effects, but lament a block on her ability to expose herself, and the unborn child, to the live virus by going to the pub or a football game. You really surprise me.
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Post by oldie on Jul 15, 2021 11:16:17 GMT
Listen to the govt to wear masks. Dont listen when they tell you don't. Everyone has their own line in the sand Nobody, absolutely nobody, in a position of responsibilty and authority, has ever said, DONT WEAR A MASK. Ever.
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Post by RD on Jul 15, 2021 11:22:35 GMT
Pirate you don't get to come on here and shout "educate yourself" because you've watched some utter crackpots on YouTube state some ridiculous, made up conspiracy. Likewise, reading a "science paper" by someone ousted by the scientific community does mean you've got some major scoop. I can guarantee you have no background WHATSOEVER in Science. Zero. So don't you dare turn round to those that do and say "educate yourself". The National Academies of Sciences in the US and scientists at Harvard working on Geoengeneering projects are hardly ones "ousted by the scientific community". As you have avoided all the facts from my original post refuting your nonsense, I'll not sidetrack the thread any further and leave you to the ad hominem attacks and smears and trust that the critical thinkers among us can see through it. Have a good day. MY nonsense Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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Post by bluebiro on Jul 15, 2021 11:24:11 GMT
Listen to the govt to wear masks. Dont listen when they tell you don't. Everyone has their own line in the sand Nobody, absolutely nobody, in a position of responsibilty and authority, has ever said, DONT WEAR A MASK. Ever. 24th of june. R sunak said as soon as legally possible he will not be wearing a mask from july 19th. Good as
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Post by baggins on Jul 15, 2021 11:25:21 GMT
The National Academies of Sciences in the US and scientists at Harvard working on Geoengeneering projects are hardly ones "ousted by the scientific community". As you have avoided all the facts from my original post refuting your nonsense, I'll not sidetrack the thread any further and leave you to the ad hominem attacks and smears and trust that the critical thinkers among us can see through it. Have a good day. MY nonsense Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha I can see flowers in a vase. Maybe it's the beer.
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Post by randomdude on Jul 15, 2021 11:26:17 GMT
Its a compromise, on the journey of wresting back control from this virus. Personally I have no problem showing my vaccine status, or my test results. Just as I have no problem showing my driving licence when requested in a traffic stop. A degree of consent is required in any democracy that does not govern by force. The thing with showing your health status to a venue or travel facility is that the process is a pain in the ass to the provider. Costly and unproductive. In the end this will kill it, as soon as we agree the worse of this pandemic is behind us. I would never carry an ID Card as a point of principle, for the record. Equally I would break the law if the current bill going through Parliament is passed as it is currently worded. Like I said the driving licence analogy doesn't quite fit on account of it is easier to choose not to drive than it is to choose to effectively be outside normal society. What all of this ignores is borderline cases. One example (I'm sure there are others) - there are not firm answers around the vaccine and breastfeeding mothers. The risks of covid to mother and child are known and assessable. The risks of the vaccine to the breastfed child are largely unknown and unquantifiable - my wife and I have been asking and searching extensively but the answers just aren't there. On that basis the weight of the decision comes down on the side of known risks vs the unknown. With that being the case my wife will probably not have the vaccine for at least another six months. So, it seems like the upshot of that is that she must accept that she cannot partake in normal life for that time. She would like to attend the odd Rovers game, certainly would like to go to the pub, we don't know yet but she may be prevented from visiting certain shops or shopping centres. It is a massive removal of liberty and, as was my original point, people who have some scepticism of it aren't anti-vaxxers or conspiracy theorists just for that reason. Genuine question re: the shops/shopping centres - has there been talk one way or another about the idea of vaccine passport being used in those settings? I've only heard it mentioned in terms of sports/pubs/events so curious if I've missed something I think the two key factors to this idea of depriving people from 'normal' life come down to 1) how long the vaccine passport is in effect for, and 2) what services/occasions/aspects of life it is limited to I'd completely agree with any push back against a permenant vaccine passport, equally I'd agree if it was being introduced for essential services like supermarkets, pharmacies, etc., but to my knowledge neither of those are the case at the moment? So aside from the 'conspiracy theory' angle I'm struggling to see the justification for push back against this at this point in time - people can obtain vaccine passport and attend 'non essential' things like Rovers games for now, or not get one and not attend At a point where consensus is that the risk has reduced significantly enough to do away with them, if there's an attempt to keep them in place then push back against the decision at that point; if there is a later attempt to extend these into essential services like supermarkets then push back against the decision at that point; but is there really an immediate rationale to oppose this scheme so heavily? I don't get it
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Post by LJG on Jul 15, 2021 11:27:05 GMT
Like I said the driving licence analogy doesn't quite fit on account of it is easier to choose not to drive than it is to choose to effectively be outside normal society. What all of this ignores is borderline cases. One example (I'm sure there are others) - there are not firm answers around the vaccine and breastfeeding mothers. The risks of covid to mother and child are known and assessable. The risks of the vaccine to the breastfed child are largely unknown and unquantifiable - my wife and I have been asking and searching extensively but the answers just aren't there. On that basis the weight of the decision comes down on the side of known risks vs the unknown. With that being the case my wife will probably not have the vaccine for at least another six months. So, it seems like the upshot of that is that she must accept that she cannot partake in normal life for that time. She would like to attend the odd Rovers game, certainly would like to go to the pub, we don't know yet but she may be prevented from visiting certain shops or shopping centres. It is a massive removal of liberty and, as was my original point, people who have some scepticism of it aren't anti-vaxxers or conspiracy theorists just for that reason. Hang on LJG So now you are questioning the vaccine? I can fully understand why your wife would want to challenge the safety of any vaccine if pregnant or indeed planning to be. But to put it simplistically vaccines promote an immune response and our natural biological processes produce the antibodies, and a "memory" in the form of T Cells. If your wife becomes infected with Covid the exact same thing happens. But, with a live virus which is replicating rapidly in your wife's body. Which of these processes is the most threatening to your wife and her unborn child? Lastly, its a rather bizarre logic to not have the vaccine for fear of side effects, but lament a block on her ability to expose herself, and the unborn child, to the live virus by going to the pub or a football game. You really surprise me. Sorry, no you're wrong. I'm not questioning the vaccine. You've ignored the point I've made. My wife and I have looked for comfort in relation to the side effects of the vaccine on breastfed children and have not been able to get that from extensive research and senior virologists - you'll excuse me for not taking a bloke off a football forum's word for it. You'll see I've addressed the point as to known assessable risks and unknowns. I'm not here for that debate and won't continue it further. What I've said is that there are borderline cases where it is conceivable that there is good reason not yet to be vaccinated. An unvaccinated minority are low risk to society and can manage the risks they are prepared to take themselves. To return to my point - it is perfectly valid then to be concerned that you are effectively excluded from public life if you cannot carry a health passport. That does not make someone an anti-vaxxer or conspiracy nut.
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Post by LJG on Jul 15, 2021 11:30:31 GMT
Like I said the driving licence analogy doesn't quite fit on account of it is easier to choose not to drive than it is to choose to effectively be outside normal society. What all of this ignores is borderline cases. One example (I'm sure there are others) - there are not firm answers around the vaccine and breastfeeding mothers. The risks of covid to mother and child are known and assessable. The risks of the vaccine to the breastfed child are largely unknown and unquantifiable - my wife and I have been asking and searching extensively but the answers just aren't there. On that basis the weight of the decision comes down on the side of known risks vs the unknown. With that being the case my wife will probably not have the vaccine for at least another six months. So, it seems like the upshot of that is that she must accept that she cannot partake in normal life for that time. She would like to attend the odd Rovers game, certainly would like to go to the pub, we don't know yet but she may be prevented from visiting certain shops or shopping centres. It is a massive removal of liberty and, as was my original point, people who have some scepticism of it aren't anti-vaxxers or conspiracy theorists just for that reason. Genuine question re: the shops/shopping centres - has there been talk one way or another about the idea of vaccine passport being used in those settings? I've only heard it mentioned in terms of sports/pubs/events so curious if I've missed something I think the two key factors to this idea of depriving people from 'normal' life come down to 1) how long the vaccine passport is in effect for, and 2) what services/occasions/aspects of life it is limited to I'd completely agree with any push back against a permenant vaccine passport, equally I'd agree if it was being introduced for essential services like supermarkets, pharmacies, etc., but to my knowledge neither of those are the case at the moment? So aside from the 'conspiracy theory' angle I'm struggling to see the justification for push back against this at this point in time - people can obtain vaccine passport and attend 'non essential' things like Rovers games for now, or not get one and not attend At a point where consensus is that the risk has reduced significantly enough to do away with them, if there's an attempt to keep them in place then push back against the decision at that point; if there is a later attempt to extend these into essential services like supermarkets then push back against the decision at that point; but is there really an immediate rationale to oppose this scheme so heavily? I don't get it Well, again, I'm not really the one making the arguments for or against it, I'm simply saying that having concerns about it doesn't make someone unhinged. We don't know the full extent of what those requirements will be. We were told recently that a vaccine passport was not even being considered. To turn your question on it's head I haven't seen that this will be considered a temporary measure- have you?
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