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Post by oldie on Jul 15, 2021 13:37:20 GMT
The rational is that current evidence suggests A) Full vaccination offers personal protection and growing evidence that transmission is lowered. B) Segregating people, either by lockdown or in this case by proof of health, substantially quells the pandemic. So I guess, from the opposing viewpoint, what is the evidence that this is not true? If true do we then accept an abnormal intrusion in order to achieve maximum health gain. They key is how long. Like I said, when the gain is no longer obvious, as obvious as it is now, then the cost of enforcing checks and the affect on revenues will kill this. Again, you're ignoring what I've said and repeating your point about vaccine efficacy which is not at issue. You don't know how long it's proposed to be in place so your opinion on it is worthless. To return to my original point it's wrong to call people who are sceptical of something you admit you don't even know the proposed limits of anti-vaxxers or conspiracy theorists. Ok Then to the crux of the matter. Nobody knows ABSOLUTELY how long proof of health regulations will be in force. It is right to question this. But is that a basis for not doing it at all? You appear to be sitting on the fence on this.
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Post by RD on Jul 15, 2021 13:38:52 GMT
Nobody, absolutely nobody, in a position of responsibilty and authority, has ever said, DONT WEAR A MASK. Ever. You are wrong. See, there you go again - YOU are wrong. You are hearing what you want to hear and twisting oldie's comments to allow you to purport your twisted narrative and agenda. Oldie said no-one has ever said "DONT WEAR A MASK". In that video, no such remark has been made. What they've basically said is that there doesn't seem to be a requirement (at that specific point in time, very early on in the pandemic, when we knew very little about the virus) to wear one. That is VERY different from instructing people not to wear a mask. - which is what the comment "don't wear a mask" would be doing.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2021 13:47:57 GMT
I hope not otherwise I am going to be lonely later! Lol. I genuinely have no idea? Perhaps I've joked elsewhere on here or RD has made an honest mistake? I'm good for it bro.😉 You're quite right - apologies - I've looked back and it was Twerton1992 or something like that, sorry.[/quote] No worries man.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Jul 15, 2021 13:54:20 GMT
See, there you go again - YOU are wrong. You are hearing what you want to hear and twisting oldie's comments to allow you to purport your twisted narrative and agenda. Oldie said no-one has ever said "DONT WEAR A MASK". In that video, no such remark has been made. What they've basically said is that there doesn't seem to be a requirement (at that specific point in time, very early on in the pandemic, when we knew very little about the virus) to wear one. That is VERY different from instructing people not to wear a mask. - which is what the comment "don't wear a mask" would be doing. Quite. Theres never evidence for anything until studied. Heres a handy diagram of the hierarchy of different forms of evidence. We all started at the bottom remember but some of us have moved upwards. 'Memes' doesn't even feature funnily enough. Attachment Deleted
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Post by RD on Jul 15, 2021 13:55:23 GMT
See, there you go again - YOU are wrong. You are hearing what you want to hear and twisting oldie's comments to allow you to purport your twisted narrative and agenda. Oldie said no-one has ever said "DONT WEAR A MASK". In that video, no such remark has been made. What they've basically said is that there doesn't seem to be a requirement (at that specific point in time, very early on in the pandemic, when we knew very little about the virus) to wear one. That is VERY different from instructing people not to wear a mask. - which is what the comment "don't wear a mask" would be doing. Quite. Theres never evidence for anything until studied. Heres a handy diagram of the hierarchy of different forms of evidence. We all started at the bottom remember but some of us have moved upwards. 'Memes' doesn't even feature funnily enough. View AttachmentBut.... hang on.... what.... there's no YouTube on there either? No Breitbart? WTF.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2021 14:00:23 GMT
Of course things changed, we all know that. The evidence went from weak and advice not to wear them, to being made mandatory in the space of a month or two. Probably because we barely had enough for those on the front line elt alone the general public. Please stop spreading this pirate, it is indirectly causing blood on your hands. That's not a nice thing to say at all. It's a topic on a footy forum.
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Post by matealotblue on Jul 15, 2021 14:00:29 GMT
Blimey .....all this and we are still a few weeks away from the season start.
Gawd knows what will happen then.........🤷♂️
🤣
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2021 14:07:15 GMT
Blimey .....all this and we are still a few weeks away from the season start. Gawd knows what will happen then.........🤷♂️ 🤣 Plenty of time for graphs and stats and conspiracy I'd say.
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Post by randomdude on Jul 15, 2021 14:45:53 GMT
Not sure I entirely agree with the premise that we don't know how restrictive it is to us now - exhaustively maybe not, but in the context of what we are talking about here for example of the idea of showing confirmation of vaccine to go to a Rovers game - I think there are merits to accept the use of vaccine passports for a time that remain valid regardless of concerns/unknowns around wider use of any such passport. As I say, if this becomes a requirement at Rovers beyond when a majority would see it as reasonably proportionate to the risk level, then I could completely understand push back at that point. Same at the point that a similar scheme is proposed for access to 'essential' services. But I don't see that the immediate risk of those happening outweighs the benefit the passport is designed to give until such a point that the above examples are actually on the table? Again, you're really making my point for me. You don't know the proposed limits or expanse of it so to say that those expressing scepticism on it are anti-vaxxers or conspiracy theorists doesn't seem fair. I think we are at crossed wires then, and if that is my doing then apologies. Personally, I don't think everyone with scepticism on the vaccine passport idea more broadly is necessary an anti vaxxer or conspiracy theorist. We are all having this debate set against the context of attending Rovers games in the current climate. I just don't see the logic in the people whose response to that has been outright opposition to the very idea of vaccine passports, as I don't see how that becomes a relevant enough concern to outweigh the benefits until such a point that one of the 'what ifs' is actually firmly on the horizon. I'm not looking to call people who have such an opposition crazy or stupid or anything like that, I genuinely want to understand their logic for coming to that conclusion, as to me currently the arguments put forward don't seem all that relevant against the backdrop of a conversation about adopting vaccine passports at Rovers under the current climate
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Jul 15, 2021 15:11:26 GMT
Probably because we barely had enough for those on the front line elt alone the general public. Please stop spreading this pirate, it is indirectly causing blood on your hands. That's not a nice thing to say at all. It's a topic on a footy forum. It's not nice that lots of people are going to die because of this bullshit being spread and people believing it but there you go.
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Post by Big Jock on Jul 15, 2021 15:15:00 GMT
Jesus, I bet some of you are fun at parties 😂
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Post by RD on Jul 15, 2021 15:16:12 GMT
Jesus, I bet some of you are fun at parties 😂 Presumably you've had your vaccine(s?!) Jock? We've seen the state of what you stick in your body so can't imagine you had any concerns?!
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Jul 15, 2021 15:24:25 GMT
Jesus, I bet some of you are fun at parties 😂 Presumably you've had your vaccine(s?!) Jock? We've seen the state of what you stick in your body so can't imagine you had any concerns?! 😂😂😂
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 15, 2021 15:24:40 GMT
And rightly so. You are totally and utterly misguided. You really shouldn't speak about things you have no clue about. All you have is an opinion - but spreading misinformation is dangerous. "I'll tell you a fact. I don't know anybody who has perished from covid. That's 18 months of hysteria. I'm one of 12 children with an Irish wife(big family) and not a single fatality.". Well lucky you. There are circa 128,000 people who have died. So based on every single person knowing even 10 people that's well over a MILLION people who have been directly affected by it. FFS even our own Gasheads have perished. You are lucky. Nothing more, nothing less. My statement above is basic knowledge, laced with extremely basic science - it really shouldn't be difficult to grasp. As such, if you're not intellectually capable of understanding the statement I made, we're better off leaving the conversation there. You need to understand that you may have a different perspective, but you can still be wrong. Hopefully this image opens your closed eyes. Both of these people have a perspective. But only one of them can be right - it's either a 6 OR a 9 - irrespective of their individual perspective. Oh wow. You DID start mouthing off at me! Charming. So.. I am misguided? As per my fact, I am guided by my circumstances. If that makes me "lucky" then I'll take that for now until my circumstances change. Then, like all of us I am free to alter my stance. Basic knowledge + basic science? You do realise that stats and findings are susceptible to change right? Over time and with different methods and procedures, we reveal different results. Even during this pandemic some of the basic knowledge has changed since different experts have their own views. "Masks do work v masks don't work", "kids are safe from vax v kids aren't safe from vax" etc. Intellectually capable? We disagree on something so you resort to that. Good for you. Spreading misinformation? You quote 128k who have died. Well according to the small print and countless reports which we have all seen and experienced..thats 'with covid' and within 28 days of a positive test'. So perhaps you should take some of your own strong worded advice on that point ok. There is a piece buried on the net from a few weeks ago regarding a petition in Lisbon which forced the authorities to restock the figures. 17k deaths turned into 152 over the argued period which might affect our daily news somewhat..https://www.expatica.com/pt/news/lisbon-court-rules-only-0-9-of-verified-cases-actually-died-of-covid-100196/ So you've also used a little picture to suggest my perspective might be wrong? Talking intellectual capabilities, I'm assuming you understand the issue with that argument! In closing. Try to make your point without being rude. I can see you are excited by this topic but if you go outside and speak to people, you might realise that there are a growing number with an opinion opposite to yours. That should be fine though, since we live in a country which allows that. This is akin to the vax being a choice. Let people choose. I won't respond publicly but happy to DM if you need to mate. Cheers. Si. I assume you realised that link takes you to a dead link which apparently confirmed those figures? Further digging suggests the whole story is fake, as the 152 deaths mentioned are those confirmed by autopsies, which, like in the UK, are not normally carried out when it's assumed the death was due to COVID etc. fullfact.org/online/lisbon-portugal-covid-deaths/
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Post by Big Jock on Jul 15, 2021 15:26:22 GMT
Jesus, I bet some of you are fun at parties 😂 Presumably you've had your vaccine(s?!) Jock? We've seen the state of what you stick in your body so can't imagine you had any concerns?! Gasheads: This Sunday from 10am - 6pm there's a Covid vaccination event taking place at Th Memorial Stadium for people aged 18 an over. So whether yous had th jab, want th jab, or have decided not ta have th jab, get yourselves down there, and you'll finally see some shots going in...
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Post by RD on Jul 15, 2021 15:32:17 GMT
Oh wow. You DID start mouthing off at me! Charming. So.. I am misguided? As per my fact, I am guided by my circumstances. If that makes me "lucky" then I'll take that for now until my circumstances change. Then, like all of us I am free to alter my stance. Basic knowledge + basic science? You do realise that stats and findings are susceptible to change right? Over time and with different methods and procedures, we reveal different results. Even during this pandemic some of the basic knowledge has changed since different experts have their own views. "Masks do work v masks don't work", "kids are safe from vax v kids aren't safe from vax" etc. Intellectually capable? We disagree on something so you resort to that. Good for you. Spreading misinformation? You quote 128k who have died. Well according to the small print and countless reports which we have all seen and experienced..thats 'with covid' and within 28 days of a positive test'. So perhaps you should take some of your own strong worded advice on that point ok. There is a piece buried on the net from a few weeks ago regarding a petition in Lisbon which forced the authorities to restock the figures. 17k deaths turned into 152 over the argued period which might affect our daily news somewhat..https://www.expatica.com/pt/news/lisbon-court-rules-only-0-9-of-verified-cases-actually-died-of-covid-100196/ So you've also used a little picture to suggest my perspective might be wrong? Talking intellectual capabilities, I'm assuming you understand the issue with that argument! In closing. Try to make your point without being rude. I can see you are excited by this topic but if you go outside and speak to people, you might realise that there are a growing number with an opinion opposite to yours. That should be fine though, since we live in a country which allows that. This is akin to the vax being a choice. Let people choose. I won't respond publicly but happy to DM if you need to mate. Cheers. Si. I assume you realised that link takes you to a dead link which apparently confirmed those figures? Further digging suggests the whole story is fake, as the 152 deaths mentioned are those confirmed by autopsies, which, like in the UK, are not normally carried out when it's assumed the death was due to COVID etc. fullfact.org/online/lisbon-portugal-covid-deaths/Haha Brilliant
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2021 15:43:25 GMT
Topper enters the room. HOLD THAT FRONT PAGE!
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Jul 15, 2021 15:47:10 GMT
Jesus, I bet some of you are fun at parties 😂 Parties? What parties? Unforunately all the anti vaxxers are ensuring there is nothing to party about. Can't beat a good conspiracy though to spice things up. Conspiracy to spice things up vs saving lives?) = no brainer.
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Post by lastminutewinner on Jul 15, 2021 16:16:04 GMT
Presumably you've had your vaccine(s?!) Jock? We've seen the state of what you stick in your body so can't imagine you had any concerns?! Gasheads: This Sunday from 10am - 6pm there's a Covid vaccination event taking place at Th Memorial Stadium for people aged 18 an over. So whether yous had th jab, want th jab, or have decided not ta have th jab, get yourselves down there, and you'll finally see some shots going in...Defo will if the bar is open
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Post by straighouttabristol on Jul 15, 2021 16:31:50 GMT
Whether your a ‘conspiracist’ or not you can’t look at the way the government and the media have handled the pandemic and the figures and embezzling funds and not think somethings fishy with it all. I’m not an anti Vaxer but I’m pro choice so I think the whole vaccine passport shouldn’t be allowed. Also they keep changing the symptoms in flu season it was the same as flu symptoms and now it’s hay fever season they released more symptoms which are identical to hayfever. If the pandemic was that bad the media and government would be trying to calm everyone down not scaremonger us and the hospitals would be at breaking point the death rates would be way higher than they are. Has anyone actually embezzled funds,there might be questions over some Contracts but that's a very different issue to embezzlement. As for the Conspiracy,nobody ever gives a sound reason as to who the beneficiaries are and how in today's media driven world they whoever they are manage to keep it all so quiet Well not far off they’ll give mates dodgy contracts then when they leave office said mates will repay them by giving them roles and contracts which over pay. Where did all the track and trace money go? The software doesn’t cost a fraction of that to create.
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