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Post by axegas on Jul 27, 2021 16:12:15 GMT
Knowing the CPS they probably did not decide to take it to court until last week. No reason for any employee to tell their employer what has gone on until the point they are being taken to court. Or do employers on here expect those who work for them to tell them the ins and outs of a gnats ass? There are plenty of reasons that an employee should tell their employer about being arrested for assaulting their wife, to prevent a complete PR disaster after it takes the employer by surprise being one of them.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2021 16:12:23 GMT
Knowing the CPS they probably did not decide to take it to court until last week. No reason for any employee to tell their employer what has gone on until the point they are being taken to court. Or do employers on here expect those who work for them to tell them the ins and outs of a gnats ass? Wrong, there are standards that players and management have to adhere to comply with their contracts. Promoting the club in a positive way is one of them as is disciplinary action for tarnishing the name of the club. There is also the element of trust between employer and employee and it sounds like Barton has lost Wael's trust.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2021 16:16:09 GMT
Wael has provided an explanation and apology. For me, whether we break with Barton or not depends if he is innocent or guilty. You cannot just sack someone based on an allegation. The club were able to sack DC, BG and PT without needing to justify itself, if they wanted to part ways with JB then I'm sure they could, I'm no expert on football manager contacts but I expect their is a clause that allows either party to terminate the contract if they wish. There may be a cost associated with doing that of course but it's a decision that is open to the club I'm sure. Unlike others on here I know Gasheadblues is a very experienced and highly successful businessman and is fully aware of employment law unlike the vast majority on here.
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Post by Wembley_Gas on Jul 27, 2021 16:16:27 GMT
Wael has provided an explanation and apology. For me, whether we break with Barton or not depends if he is innocent or guilty. You cannot just sack someone based on an allegation. The club were able to sack DC, BG and PT without needing to justify itself, if they wanted to part ways with JB then I'm sure they could, I'm no expert on football manager contacts but I expect their is a clause that allows either party to terminate the contract if they wish. There may be a cost associated with doing that of course but it's a decision that is open to the club I'm sure. Most of us have signed a contract in the past that has stipulated failure to comply with the laws and statutes of the country will result in instant dismissal with no compensation due or right of appeal. Sacking him now would mean he was entitled to a pay off and may also prejudice his case, we have a history of waiting for the result of legal proceedings before acting, so when Junior Agogo was acquitted we could continue to play him and when Pipe was sent down we dismissed him. Wales took a different approach with Giggs and suspended him from duty until after his case is settled but he does not have quite such a hand in running things there. We’ve given JB Carte Blanche to sign and dismiss players, coaching staff, support staff. He’s responsible for patterns of play, training schedules etc. Suspending him now makes the rest of preseason directionless. If he’s not allowed to communicate with Clint & co. whilst suspended then we can’t sign anybody because we told him he had full control over that…so that’s no experienced striker coming in. Luckily TW is in charge of the outgoing loans so he can at least get the overage fringe players a temporary home that means they get some game time without taking up a place in our squad…but we tread water until December if we suspend him and we pay more compo if we get rid now. Given a lot of the new players have come primarily to work with JB maybe they get that opportunity now and the boat isn’t rocked too much until November or December take that decision out of our hands or if both land favourable for Barton we can then make a decision on him that doesn’t prejudice outstanding cases against him based purely on how his tenure has turned out for BRFC both in terms of results on the pitch and reputation off it.
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Post by bluestone on Jul 27, 2021 16:18:32 GMT
Appreciate the clarification statement from Wael (although shame it's taken until 4pm to get it out) but I still firmly believe he should at the very least be suspending JB pending the outcome of the trial. His presence on the touchline and in the media from now until December is only going to fuel the fire and be an unnecessary distraction from the business on the pitch. what a great idea! So Barton’s got all his players in, but let’s make him stay away from them? We might as well sack him, and let a manager do his job! Good idea! Let's do that, let's get an actual manager to manage the team rather than someone who is incapable of avoiding a dust up with the cops every five minutes and as such is a liability to the club. For what it's worth until now I've not had a bad word to say about JB although I'll confess I had reservations over his appointment. I hate what is happening to us right now which is a direct result of guys behaviour and attitude and I can't help but feel that if JB was the manager of any other club there would barely be a voice on here saying he should stay in his position.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2021 16:20:02 GMT
The club were able to sack DC, BG and PT without needing to justify itself, if they wanted to part ways with JB then I'm sure they could, I'm no expert on football manager contacts but I expect their is a clause that allows either party to terminate the contract if they wish. There may be a cost associated with doing that of course but it's a decision that is open to the club I'm sure. Unlike others on here I know Gasheadblues is a very experienced and highly successful businessman and is fully aware of employment law unlike the vast majority on here. And I have signed players and managers contracts and fully aware of the contents.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2021 16:25:20 GMT
Well said Wael Innocent until proven guilty Pitty some of the self righteous idiots on this forum don't understand the law of this country Nail on the head ineedgas. This thread just goes to prove some on here have already found Barton guilty! Our owner makes a statement and that is still not good enough for some and are now pulling his statement to bits. He has spoken, explained the club's position and I would suggest if that's not good enough for some there is an easy option for them to take. I don't think I need to explain what that is.
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Post by bluestone on Jul 27, 2021 16:25:49 GMT
The club were able to sack DC, BG and PT without needing to justify itself, if they wanted to part ways with JB then I'm sure they could, I'm no expert on football manager contacts but I expect their is a clause that allows either party to terminate the contract if they wish. There may be a cost associated with doing that of course but it's a decision that is open to the club I'm sure. Most of us have signed a contract in the past that has stipulated failure to comply with the laws and statutes of the country will result in instant dismissal with no compensation due or right of appeal. Sacking him now would mean he was entitled to a pay off and may also prejudice his case, we have a history of waiting for the result of legal proceedings before acting, so when Junior Agogo was acquitted we could continue to play him and when Pipe was sent down we dismissed him. Wales took a different approach with Giggs and suspended him from duty until after his case is settled but he does not have quite such a hand in running things there. We’ve given JB Carte Blanche to sign and dismiss players, coaching staff, support staff. He’s responsible for patterns of play, training schedules etc. Suspending him now makes the rest of preseason directionless. If he’s not allowed to communicate with Clint & co. whilst suspended then we can’t sign anybody because we told him he had full control over that…so that’s no experienced striker coming in. Luckily TW is in charge of the outgoing loans so he can at least get the overage fringe players a temporary home that means they get some game time without taking up a place in our squad…but we tread water until December if we suspend him and we pay more compo if we get rid now. Given a lot of the new players have come primarily to work with JB maybe they get that opportunity now and the boat isn’t rocked too much until November or December take that decision out of our hands or if both land favourable for Barton we can then make a decision on him that doesn’t prejudice outstanding cases against him based purely on how his tenure has turned out for BRFC both in terms of results on the pitch and reputation off it. To be fair, you've summed up the dilemma pretty well there. I think I said it yesterday, there's no good decision here only bad ones. Everyone has their own opinion on which decision is the least worst.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 27, 2021 16:28:25 GMT
The club were able to sack DC, BG and PT without needing to justify itself, if they wanted to part ways with JB then I'm sure they could, I'm no expert on football manager contacts but I expect their is a clause that allows either party to terminate the contract if they wish. There may be a cost associated with doing that of course but it's a decision that is open to the club I'm sure. Unlike others on here I know Gasheadblues is a very experienced and highly successful businessman and is fully aware of employment law unlike the vast majority on here. There's no reason why we can't put Barton on gardening leave and then make a final decision on his future employment when both trials have taken place, or just come to a mutual agreement and let him leave now, for all we know those talks maybe taking place this week.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2021 16:30:02 GMT
Unlike others on here I know Gasheadblues is a very experienced and highly successful businessman and is fully aware of employment law unlike the vast majority on here. And I have signed players and managers contracts and fully aware of the contents. And you obviously know then, that my good friend GHB is correct in what he says.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2021 16:30:13 GMT
Unlike others on here I know Gasheadblues is a very experienced and highly successful businessman and is fully aware of employment law unlike the vast majority on here. There's no reason why we can't put Barton on gardening leave and then make a final decision on his future employment when both trials have taken place, or just come to a mutual agreement and let him leave now, for all we know those talks maybe taking place this week. I think and hope you are correct.
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Post by wertongas on Jul 27, 2021 16:30:33 GMT
If correct that J B didn't tell Wael of the Police investigation, it means J B continued to sign players for the club without the owners Knowledge of the investigation and Wael had no opportunity to stop players being brought in. Wael may wanted to curtail signings if he thought JB job maybe further at risk. I know Wael appears a decent easy going sort of person but he must me fuming with J B actions, it is disrespectful not to keep your boss informed of things that effect the whole club. Wael is a very tolerant man .
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2021 16:31:37 GMT
And I have signed players and managers contracts and fully aware of the contents. And you obviously know then, that my good friend GHB is correct in what he says. Correct on the subject that he is talking about but incorrect in terms of breach of contract.
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Post by gashead1981 on Jul 27, 2021 16:34:29 GMT
Well said Wael Innocent until proven guilty Pitty some of the self righteous idiots on this forum don't understand the law of this country I think someone needs to give their head a wobble and spend some time with the DV charity we have partnered with.
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Post by gashead1981 on Jul 27, 2021 16:39:08 GMT
The club were able to sack DC, BG and PT without needing to justify itself, if they wanted to part ways with JB then I'm sure they could, I'm no expert on football manager contacts but I expect their is a clause that allows either party to terminate the contract if they wish. There may be a cost associated with doing that of course but it's a decision that is open to the club I'm sure. Unlike others on here I know Gasheadblues is a very experienced and highly successful businessman and is fully aware of employment law unlike the vast majority on here. As an employer I know a fair bit about employment law too. You can suspend anyone on full pay, pending an investigation of any breaches of your contract of employment or for any allegation of misconduct. You can even say your investigation will be after any legal enquiries so you give the maximum amount of time possible. The person remains employed, bound by the terms and conditions of the contract of employment but cannot attend his place of work unless directed by his superior and accompanied by them.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jul 27, 2021 16:42:20 GMT
Sorry Wael, but that is utter wafflebollocks.
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Post by Dirt Dogg on Jul 27, 2021 16:44:28 GMT
Gotta feel abit sorry for Wael, he’s 100% backed Barton and is now left the club and himself in an embarrassing position.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2021 16:46:46 GMT
And you obviously know then, that my good friend GHB is correct in what he says. Correct on the subject that he is talking about but incorrect in terms of breach of contract. Where has the breach of contract occurred? Unless you have seen his contract you are not in a position to come to that conclusion. The man has not been found guilty and has had allegations made against him that have yet to be proved. Our owner has explained his and the club's position and you obviously disagree. Unfortunately for you he is our club's owner and you are just like the rest of us, a nobody.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2021 16:46:56 GMT
Unlike others on here I know Gasheadblues is a very experienced and highly successful businessman and is fully aware of employment law unlike the vast majority on here. As an employer I know a fair bit about employment law too. You can suspend anyone on full pay, pending an investigation of any breaches of your contract of employment or for any allegation of misconduct. You can even say your investigation will be after any legal enquiries so you give the maximum amount of time possible. The person remains employed, bound by the terms and conditions of the contract of employment but cannot attend his place of work unless directed by his superior and accompanied by them. Regardless of what can be done under employment law, Wael is Barton's employer, and the decision rests with him. Joey Barton has assembled his own team, both on and off the field, maybe Wael thinks that it is best from a business aspect to allow him to continue the task he has started, as so much as been invested in it?. Maybe Wael thinks it will benefit the Barton family for Joey to be occupied by continuing his employment, until a legal verdict has been reached? Different people would do things in a different way - it's Wael's money at stake.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2021 16:51:37 GMT
Correct on the subject that he is talking about but incorrect in terms of breach of contract. Where has the breach of contract occurred? Unless you have seen his contract you are not in a position to come to that conclusion. The man has not been found guilty and has had allegations made against him that have yet to be proved. Our owner has explained his and the club's position and you obviously disagree. Unfortunately for you he is our club's owner and you are just like the rest of us, a nobody. Ok, neither has your highly successful friend. Everybody is somebody you poor lost soul.
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