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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 17, 2021 7:42:21 GMT
Needed to stop, to compose a longish piece rather than just react to different things. Obviously things have been made difficult here because of the relationship breakdown between the FC and The SC The FC (if true) should never demand any money from any supporters group and any supporters group should never hand over any money willy nilly. The problem here (as I see it) is that The SC has been so intertwined with the club, that despite what the website might say, the SC are not a truly independent voice or organisation. The SC has basically been the fund raising arm of the club for decades and if The SC are slow to hand the money over, then of course the club et twitchy as they are accustomed to this income (whatever the size) It’s no surprise the club would want to take it in-house, collect the money direct and divert it wherever they want. If The SC were truly independent and had not had such a symbiotic relationship with the club over the years perhaps there would be less pressure on The SC to hand over any money It’s 2021 and football clubs have changed a whole bit. The club are now running their own membership scheme (like many other pro clubs). If the FC want to raise money direct through match day draws, organise away travel or anything else because they believe they can do it better or more effectively than they will. None of this has had to happen this way, but the seeds of division have probably made this harder than necessary, both sides are to blame here and it needn’t be so acrimonious It’s 2021. The SC cannot and quite frankly shouldn’t be the Supporters Club of 1986. The SC, if no longer needed to be what it has been for so long, needs to re-evaluate itself and it’s aims and most of all needs to engage it’s members and the wider fan base to achieve this. The SC can still raise money, but they can do so on their terms, without being the un-official, official fund raising arm of the club. Both sides need to get round a table and thrash things out, with an acceptance there is change, or The SC should just retreat and take stock and come back later Meanwhile The SC needs to call an EGM so it can properly update it’s members and the fans Could you explain to us uneducated what the SC is raising funds for if it's not to pass on to the club? I can't recall ever being told when I bought a 50/50 ticket etc that the money received was being saved in the SC bank account just in case the owners ever did a runner and then left us in the lurch and the club needed saving? Even if that did happen I doubt £50K/£100K would go that far to save the club? Also how much do the SC presently have squirreled away, I understood they received around £130K from the sale of the old club shop, assuming that's been wisely invested, after it was lost and then recovered (!) it must be over the £150K by now? Plus I assume they have the receipts from the 50/50 draws etc also saved? Finally, why have they never attempted to put forward a replacement for Ken Masters, they can hardly still use the COVID excuse now? As far your suggestion that they retreat to mull things over, you sense JC has already done this and decided that to attack TG (and the club) publicly is the best way to resolve matters.
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Post by bluebiro on Aug 17, 2021 7:42:42 GMT
Why as a club are we going round the neighbourhood trying to find every pound we can grab?thought the quarters were self financed by wael?all so confusing.no idea who is right or wrong but both parties seems far removed from the fan base now.
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 17, 2021 7:46:35 GMT
Why as a club are we going round the neighbourhood trying to find every pound we can grab?thought the quarters were self financed by wael?all so confusing.no idea who is right or wrong but both parties seems far removed from the fan base now. On the flip side why are the SC holding on to the money they raise from fans for the club? Would fans keep on buying 50/50 tickets if they knew the money was just sitting in the SC's bank account, which we already know is hardly the safest place to keep money.
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Post by madgas on Aug 17, 2021 7:47:13 GMT
Presidents club - not a news story. Supporters club - Yes, perhaps worthy. But why not wait until after the meetings and relay a full a picture? Well, because under the current leadership they just want to undermine the football club. What if we actually win tonight? Who'd care? Get the bad news out now to cause as much damage as possible. If it was about being transparent this could have been said on Saturday afternoon.
Both antiquated, time to move on. If you want to give Bristol Rovers money- spend it at the bar, the club shop etc.
The community trust however- is an excellent organisation and people should not confuse this.
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Post by bluebiro on Aug 17, 2021 7:51:37 GMT
Why as a club are we going round the neighbourhood trying to find every pound we can grab?thought the quarters were self financed by wael?all so confusing.no idea who is right or wrong but both parties seems far removed from the fan base now. On the flip side why are the SC holding on to the money they raise from fans for the club? Would fans keep on buying 50/50 tickets if they knew the money was just sitting in the SC's bank account, which we already know is hardly the safest place to keep money. no idea. Maybe the money could have been spent on the supporters experience at the mem like working toilets running water and the sound system.
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Post by gasgasgasgas on Aug 17, 2021 7:55:24 GMT
I don’t understand the point of the Supporters Club any more.
The club needs an independent organisation in the mould of the Wimbledon Independent Supporters Association or Spirit of Shankly to publicly express the fans dissatisfaction with the owner and his decisions.
The farce with Barton’s ongoing employment and the clubs “victimless crime” statement underline this.
Wael does not take criticism well, as we’ve seen by the sackings of managers, the removal of board members, the spats with the existing supporters club. Didn’t Darrell say the politics at Rovers was unbelievable? All of a sign of an owner with thin skin.
An organisation that can pressure the owner into making better decisions could only be a good thing.
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Post by oldie on Aug 17, 2021 8:00:59 GMT
I don’t understand the point of the Supporters Club any more. The club needs an independent organisation in the mould of the Wimbledon Independent Supporters Association or Spirit of Shankly to publicly express the fans dissatisfaction with the owner and his decisions. The farce with Barton’s ongoing employment and the clubs “victimless crime” statement underline this. Wael does not take criticism well, as we’ve seen by the sackings of managers, the removal of board members, the spats with the existing supporters club. Didn’t Darrell say the politics at Rovers was unbelievable? All of a sign of an owner with thin skin. An organisation that can pressure the owner into making better decisions could only be a good thing. Thats just pie in the sky.
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Post by wertongas on Aug 17, 2021 8:01:51 GMT
Why as a club are we going round the neighbourhood trying to find every pound we can grab?thought the quarters were self financed by wael?all so confusing.no idea who is right or wrong but both parties seems far removed from the fan base now. T G is a penny pincher tries to get money where ever he can, like said I arranged to purchase new toilet block for the Mem, but was then told club couldn't afford to pay for it to be connected so I didn't bother. But like someone said SC money is really the fans money and is there to be spent on the club not squirreled away, though I suppose ultimately it is SC decision what they spend that money on.
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Post by peterparker on Aug 17, 2021 8:02:32 GMT
Needed to stop, to compose a longish piece rather than just react to different things. Obviously things have been made difficult here because of the relationship breakdown between the FC and The SC The FC (if true) should never demand any money from any supporters group and any supporters group should never hand over any money willy nilly. The problem here (as I see it) is that The SC has been so intertwined with the club, that despite what the website might say, the SC are not a truly independent voice or organisation. The SC has basically been the fund raising arm of the club for decades and if The SC are slow to hand the money over, then of course the club et twitchy as they are accustomed to this income (whatever the size) It’s no surprise the club would want to take it in-house, collect the money direct and divert it wherever they want. If The SC were truly independent and had not had such a symbiotic relationship with the club over the years perhaps there would be less pressure on The SC to hand over any money It’s 2021 and football clubs have changed a whole bit. The club are now running their own membership scheme (like many other pro clubs). If the FC want to raise money direct through match day draws, organise away travel or anything else because they believe they can do it better or more effectively than they will. None of this has had to happen this way, but the seeds of division have probably made this harder than necessary, both sides are to blame here and it needn’t be so acrimonious It’s 2021. The SC cannot and quite frankly shouldn’t be the Supporters Club of 1986. The SC, if no longer needed to be what it has been for so long, needs to re-evaluate itself and it’s aims and most of all needs to engage it’s members and the wider fan base to achieve this. The SC can still raise money, but they can do so on their terms, without being the un-official, official fund raising arm of the club. Both sides need to get round a table and thrash things out, with an acceptance there is change, or The SC should just retreat and take stock and come back later Meanwhile The SC needs to call an EGM so it can properly update it’s members and the fans Could you explain to us uneducated what the SC is raising funds for if it's not to pass on to the club? I can't recall ever being told when I bought a 50/50 ticket etc that the money received was being saved in the SC bank account just in case the owners ever did a runner and then left us in the lurch and the club needed saving? Even if that did happen I doubt £50K/£100K would go that far to save the club? Also how much do the SC presently have squirreled away, I understood they received around £130K from the sale of the old club shop, assuming that's been wisely invested, after it was lost and then recovered (!) it must be over the £150K by now? Plus I assume they have the receipts from the 50/50 draws etc also saved? Finally, why have they never attempted to put forward a replacement for Ken Masters, they can hardly still use the COVID excuse now? missing the point slightly Topper. If we had an owner like Oyston for example, would our SC raise money and just give it to the club?. The point I am trying to make is that any supporters group can raise money with the intention of giving it to the club, but should never be dictated too in what it donates. The SC are (or have been more accurately) so close to the club that it has become second nature which flies in the face of being independent If the SC are holding back 50/50 funds (raised on the clubs property in the main remember), then it's no wonder the Fc would want to take it in-house to ensure they get the cash, whatever the amount when they have become accustomed to it. That's the problem with the too close ties to the club over the years it's 2021 and the FC don't need volunteers to run the shop, sell 50/50 tickets or programmes. Whilst there is a certain amount of sadness in that in some respects, it's not exactly a bad thing is it that a professional club tries to run things professionally (how good they are at that is a different argument) Either the SC and FC need to thrash things out, or The SC need to walk away , accept things have changed and decide what they want to be. They can't be one foot in, one foot out
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Post by peterparker on Aug 17, 2021 8:04:50 GMT
Why as a club are we going round the neighbourhood trying to find every pound we can grab?thought the quarters were self financed by wael?all so confusing.no idea who is right or wrong but both parties seems far removed from the fan base now. T G is a penny pincher tries to get money where ever he can, like said I arranged to purchase new toilet block for the Mem, but was then told club couldn't afford to pay for it to be connected so I didn't bother. But like someone said SC money is really the fans money and is there to be spent on the club not squirreled away, though I suppose ultimately it is SC decision what they spend that money on. well yes, but I would also add, it needs to engage it membership on the issue given the problems occurring now
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Post by stevek192 on Aug 17, 2021 8:05:11 GMT
At the end of the day what does it bloody matter? I support my team Bristol Rovers FC by attending matches. I turn up to a rickety old stadium that resembles in most parts a visit to either Billy Smarts or Chipperfields, I go pre match to a bar for which I don't have to be any member of any type other than I have to pay a fiver a pint which is my choice, I stand in my favourite place on terracing where I meet up with similar mates who don't have the privilege of special rooms and then we watch at the moment what can only be described as a special brand of football that is generally played in our half the pitch with the occasional forage into opponents territory with a pre arranged agreement that we don't trouble the opponents goalkeeper who has a 90 minute siesta. I have the option of buying a pie which I am not allowed to throw at the officiaLs despite having paid for it and they generally ruining my entertainment. All I ask for is somebody to make sure that i still have this "wonderful experience" to watch every week and at the moment Wael is the person who ensures this. I always think on supporting the club as doing exactly that SUPPORTING.It seems to me that both organisations the Supporters Club and the Presidents club are forever in dispute with the club they are supposed to support and the views of these organisations are the views of the "elite" people who run them and probably not the majority of their members.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2021 8:10:58 GMT
Don't know the rights and wrongs of all this but sad to see ever more division affecting the club.
Some might see the Gorringe-changes as necessary progress and others as ripping the heart out of the club unnecessarily. Probably a bit of both.
Personally, I found the programme sellers, the old programme and the 50/50 draw all part of the match-day experience but I guess Gorringe feel more money can be made and better controlled his way.
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 17, 2021 8:11:05 GMT
Could you explain to us uneducated what the SC is raising funds for if it's not to pass on to the club? I can't recall ever being told when I bought a 50/50 ticket etc that the money received was being saved in the SC bank account just in case the owners ever did a runner and then left us in the lurch and the club needed saving? Even if that did happen I doubt £50K/£100K would go that far to save the club? Also how much do the SC presently have squirreled away, I understood they received around £130K from the sale of the old club shop, assuming that's been wisely invested, after it was lost and then recovered (!) it must be over the £150K by now? Plus I assume they have the receipts from the 50/50 draws etc also saved? Finally, why have they never attempted to put forward a replacement for Ken Masters, they can hardly still use the COVID excuse now? missing the point slightly Topper. If we had an owner like Oyston for example, would our SC raise money and just give it to the club?. The point I am trying to make is that any supporters group can raise money with the intention of giving it to the club, but should never be dictated too in what it donates. The SC are (or have been more accurately) so close to the club that it has become second nature which flies in the face of being independent If the SC are holding back 50/50 funds (raised on the clubs property in the main remember), then it's no wonder the Fc would want to take it in-house to ensure they get the cash, whatever the amount when they have become accustomed to it. That's the problem with the too close ties to the club over the years it's 2021 and the FC don't need volunteers to run the shop, sell 50/50 tickets or programmes. Whilst there is a certain amount of sadness in that in some respects, it's not exactly a bad thing is it that a professional club tries to run things professionally (how good they are at that is a different argument) Either the SC and FC need to thrash things out, or The SC need to walk away , accept things have changed and decide what they want to be. They can't be one foot in, one foot out But surely the SC shouldn't also dictate what the money is spent on? Purchasing dug outs seems a sensible idea but why purchase stands when we can't have any paying (or even any?) spectators at The Quarters?
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 17, 2021 8:16:27 GMT
I don’t understand the point of the Supporters Club any more. The club needs an independent organisation in the mould of the Wimbledon Independent Supporters Association or Spirit of Shankly to publicly express the fans dissatisfaction with the owner and his decisions. The farce with Barton’s ongoing employment and the clubs “victimless crime” statement underline this. Wael does not take criticism well, as we’ve seen by the sackings of managers, the removal of board members, the spats with the existing supporters club. Didn’t Darrell say the politics at Rovers was unbelievable? All of a sign of an owner with thin skin. An organisation that can pressure the owner into making better decisions could only be a good thing. That's your own personal views, I sense most fans support Wael, even if they do question some of his decision making, and have no intention of setting up a protest group, they just want an SC which actually supports the club.
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Post by peterparker on Aug 17, 2021 8:20:47 GMT
missing the point slightly Topper. If we had an owner like Oyston for example, would our SC raise money and just give it to the club?. The point I am trying to make is that any supporters group can raise money with the intention of giving it to the club, but should never be dictated too in what it donates. The SC are (or have been more accurately) so close to the club that it has become second nature which flies in the face of being independent If the SC are holding back 50/50 funds (raised on the clubs property in the main remember), then it's no wonder the Fc would want to take it in-house to ensure they get the cash, whatever the amount when they have become accustomed to it. That's the problem with the too close ties to the club over the years it's 2021 and the FC don't need volunteers to run the shop, sell 50/50 tickets or programmes. Whilst there is a certain amount of sadness in that in some respects, it's not exactly a bad thing is it that a professional club tries to run things professionally (how good they are at that is a different argument) Either the SC and FC need to thrash things out, or The SC need to walk away , accept things have changed and decide what they want to be. They can't be one foot in, one foot out But surely the SC shouldn't also dictate what the money is spent on? Purchasing dug outs seems a sensible idea but why purchase stands when we can't have any paying (or even any?) spectators at The Quarters? i mean dugouts is very oddly specific, but I don't find it unreasonable that The SC say they want it spent on the U18s or The Gas Girls and see something tangible. The last thing any of us should want is to see money swallowed up in the black hole where nobody knows what it went towards, like paying off Max Ehmer
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Post by fanboy on Aug 17, 2021 8:28:42 GMT
Feels like one of the only marginally positive things going on at the club over the last couple of years is the improvements on the commercial side. This strikes me that some are seeing attempts to improve the club as an insult to their position. Hardly surprising given they've been out of touch and unnecessary for years now.
These statements should be kept on the playground. Frankly, with everything going on at the moment, the idea the SC would put this statement out now is a shambles and reflects poorly on them, no one else.
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 17, 2021 8:29:58 GMT
But surely the SC shouldn't also dictate what the money is spent on? Purchasing dug outs seems a sensible idea but why purchase stands when we can't have any paying (or even any?) spectators at The Quarters? i mean dugouts is very oddly specific, but I don't find it unreasonable that The SC say they want it spent on the U18s or The Gas Girls and see something tangible. The last thing any of us should want is to see money swallowed up in the black hole where nobody knows what it went towards, like paying off Max Ehmer Regardless £50K seems a big sum just to spend on Gas Girls etc. I guess that the issue neither of us can understand, why can't both parties just come to an agreement where the money's spent.
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Post by daniel300380 on Aug 17, 2021 8:38:41 GMT
i mean dugouts is very oddly specific, but I don't find it unreasonable that The SC say they want it spent on the U18s or The Gas Girls and see something tangible. The last thing any of us should want is to see money swallowed up in the black hole where nobody knows what it went towards, like paying off Max Ehmer Regardless £50K seems a big sum just to spend on Gas Girls etc. I guess that the issue neither of us can understand, why can't both parties just come to an agreement where the money's spent. Because then they would have to get on and discuss it line adults😂. Not good for the club, that they are not getting on. Both sides like the power and want to be in charge of the money by the sounds of it.
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Post by BrightonGas on Aug 17, 2021 8:41:21 GMT
On the flip side why are the SC holding on to the money they raise from fans for the club? Would fans keep on buying 50/50 tickets if they knew the money was just sitting in the SC's bank account, which we already know is hardly the safest place to keep money. no idea. Maybe the money could have been spent on the supporters experience at the mem like working toilets running water and the sound system. Rather than "spectator" facilities at the training ground!
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Post by Henbury Gas on Aug 17, 2021 8:42:36 GMT
No it is not and it is down to TG. looks like TG is a common denominator in all this upheaval, i remember his "handling" of the Blue Diamond club issue which was not very professional to say the least I wonder what his motive is in all this to cause these issues ? Maybe a closet shithead LOL
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