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Post by Hugh Jarsole on Jul 29, 2021 14:39:52 GMT
Must
Resist
Urge
To
Delete
Myself
Seriously though its getting pretty rough in here now
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Post by BelieveItWhenIAmSatInIt on Jul 29, 2021 14:43:39 GMT
Is deleting your account the same as leaving a whattsapp group then? Cos in my experience, only really dedicated attention seekers do that.
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Post by gregsy on Jul 29, 2021 14:46:59 GMT
Must Resist Urge To Delete Myself Seriously though its getting pretty rough in here now Badgers bottom.... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2021 14:47:27 GMT
Can I just check, are we not allowed to call Joey Barton a Special lady garden on this forum then? Seems to be a lot of people upset that some don't like him? I am just checking as I personally think he is a thuggish scum bag who should never have been allowed anywhere near our club and I honestly do not see myself being particularly arsed about the club until he is gone.. So.. Wanted to be clear of the rules before I made my feelings clear. Until I know for sure I will just keep my feelings on Joey Barton neutral. Thanks in advanced Mods. Who is getting upset solely because some people don’t like JB? I see people getting ‘upset’ that some want him sacked for an offence for which he has yet to be found guilty. I think there is a 100% consensus that if he is guilty he should be sacked - the differences of opinion mainly stem from those who believe in innocent until proven guilty and those that don’t. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2021 14:49:24 GMT
Is deleting your account the same as leaving a whattsapp group then? Cos in my experience, only really dedicated attention seekers do that. I’ve never seen Tilly as an attention seeking type. |
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Post by LJG on Jul 29, 2021 14:51:30 GMT
Well the quote you posted above clearly refers to the circumstances in which he is convicted. I don't think you can read that any other way. It clearly doesn't say he is convicted so the claim that this is defamatory is still silly and in my opinion motivated for personal reasons and frankly, not that far off bullying. I think it's fine to call someone who would offer support to a convicted wife beater filth. I'm genuinely struggling to see how you can have any opposition to that statement. If you have one, state your case. maybe the definition of ‘convicted’ might help you. “having been declared guilty of a criminal offence by the verdict of a jury or the decision of a judge” I don’t think he has been found guilty, therefor he is not a convicted wife beater. Did you not read my response to your previous post? Well the quote you posted above clearly refers to the circumstances in which he is convicted. I don't think you can read that any other way. It clearly doesn't say he is convicted so the claim that this is defamatory is still silly and in my opinion motivated for personal reasons and frankly, not that far off bullying. Do you have a definition of overreaction? Or bullying? |
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Post by LJG on Jul 29, 2021 14:54:57 GMT
This whole "push the boundaries of law" and defamation thing is utter nonsense. Everything said is easily defensible on the grounds of opinion and fair comment. In relation to what mods do and don't do I think the answer to your question is that they are human beings and therefore fallible. The mods presumably don’t feel it is nonsense and one chose to raise this with a poster on this very subject. Of course we are all fallible and mistakes happen, however the mods still need to act with care and consistency to gain the trust and respect of forum members. It's nonsense. You and a couple of others have decided to chew this particular bone to publicly target and bully one member of this forum because you have a difference of opinion over the manager. This whole Barton thing is more like a cult each day. |
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Post by cockergas on Jul 29, 2021 15:00:53 GMT
maybe the definition of ‘convicted’ might help you. “having been declared guilty of a criminal offence by the verdict of a jury or the decision of a judge” I don’t think he has been found guilty, therefor he is not a convicted wife beater. Did you not read my response to your previous post? Well the quote you posted above clearly refers to the circumstances in which he is convicted. I don't think you can read that any other way. It clearly doesn't say he is convicted so the claim that this is defamatory is still silly and in my opinion motivated for personal reasons and frankly, not that far off bullying. Do you have a definition of overreaction? Or bullying? i really don’t know what you are reading, but here is the quote again. ”Just want to know what filth we have on here that would continue to support a convicted wife beater.” Think it’s pretty clear he is saying convicted. I don’t see any bullying or overreacting. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2021 15:07:25 GMT
The mods presumably don’t feel it is nonsense and one chose to raise this with a poster on this very subject. Of course we are all fallible and mistakes happen, however the mods still need to act with care and consistency to gain the trust and respect of forum members. It's nonsense. You and a couple of others have decided to chew this particular bone to publicly target and bully one member of this forum because you have a difference of opinion over the manager. This whole Barton thing is more like a cult each day. There is no personal vendetta, I’ve no idea who RD is. I respect the views of those who don’t like Barton and want him out, I prefer innocent until proven guilty and would prefer him to remain in his job until his case is concluded. I’ve not randomly selected one of the other 50% who have a different view to me and decided to pursue them. I didn’t like how he made very vociferous public assumptions of guilt without challenge from those who moderate the forum. Like I’ve said before I don’t like the inconsistency where actions/non actions of mods are concerned. |
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Post by LJG on Jul 29, 2021 15:09:28 GMT
Did you not read my response to your previous post? Do you have a definition of overreaction? Or bullying? i really don’t know what you are reading, but here is the quote again. ”Just want to know what filth we have on here that would continue to support a convicted wife beater.” Think it’s pretty clear he is saying convicted. I don’t see any bullying or overreacting. Yes, that's the same one. It is a question which asks which people would support a convicted wife beater. It is not a statement which says Barton is a convicted wife beater. The difference is the inclusion of the word "would" rather than "who supports" or "who still supports" which indeed would be a statement that Barton has been convicted. I don't understand how you don't understand the difference. Perhaps you do and you're just enjoying this public pile-on of a single user of the forum. |
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Post by LJG on Jul 29, 2021 15:10:35 GMT
It's nonsense. You and a couple of others have decided to chew this particular bone to publicly target and bully one member of this forum because you have a difference of opinion over the manager. This whole Barton thing is more like a cult each day. There is no personal vendetta, I’ve no idea who RD is. I respect the views of those who don’t like Barton and want him out, I prefer innocent until proven guilty and would prefer him to remain in his job until his case is concluded. I’ve not randomly selected one of the other 50% who have a different view to me and decided to pursue them. I didn’t like how he made very vociferous public assumptions of guilt without challenge from those who moderate the forum. Like I’ve said before I don’t like the inconsistency where actions/non actions of mods are concerned. There is no assumption of guilt. The problem is reading comprehension not the opinions of the author. |
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Post by olskooltoteender on Jul 29, 2021 15:17:46 GMT
Did you not read my response to your previous post? Do you have a definition of overreaction? Or bullying? i really don’t know what you are reading, but here is the quote again. ”Just want to know what filth we have on here that would continue to support a convicted wife beater.” Think it’s pretty clear he is saying convicted. I don’t see any bullying or overreacting. He’s talking in the future tense - perhaps a better way of phrasing it would have been “ Just want to know what filth we have on here that would continue to support him if he is convicted of beating his wife” ? |
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Post by cockergas on Jul 29, 2021 15:21:03 GMT
i really don’t know what you are reading, but here is the quote again. ”Just want to know what filth we have on here that would continue to support a convicted wife beater.” Think it’s pretty clear he is saying convicted. I don’t see any bullying or overreacting. Yes, that's the same one. It is a question which asks which people would support a convicted wife beater. It is not a statement which says Barton is a convicted wife beater. The difference is the inclusion of the word "would" rather than "who supports" or "who still supports" which indeed would be a statement that Barton has been convicted. I don't understand how you don't understand the difference. Perhaps you do and you're just enjoying this public pile-on of a single user of the forum. could should would, I can see how it can be read either way, however the fact it was in the Barton ‘In or Out’ thread and aimed at those who had voted “in” makes it clear in my mind that it is reference to Barton. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2021 15:21:35 GMT
All,
I like to think of myself as a reasonable, balanced poster and someone who is fair in what I write and in the debates/discussions I have and I have purposely not contributed to this thread until now as I was finding it really difficult reading…
But surely all of us can see something must be wrong if the forum is losing longstanding members because of how toxic these threads are becoming and how people are ‘talking’ to each other?
My Divided Fans thread - which people seemed to be in agreement with - was an aim to try and get us all empathising or at least respecting each other’s views even if we didn’t agree with them and for us to think before we write some of the things we do on here. Unfortunately it appears to have failed.
There are binary opinions and, from both the anti JB and ‘await the outcome’ JB groups there have been strong over the top views being posted. I’m not comfortable with language and accusations being thrown around about people on both sides of the debate and personally feel some of the things being written are wrong, very wrong.
As a community we need to take a long hard look at ourselves as when long-standing forum members are leaving either through time outs or deleting their accounts then that has to tell us all something?
No one has a divine right to impose their opinion on someone else nor should they use repetitive forceful and aggressive language to do so. It’s just not right in my opinion.
So as a community of passionate gasheads who all have the clubs best interests at heart, can we please please please be more respectful and empathetic to each other before we lose any more forum members and before this forum just turns into a nasty, argumentative and completely toxic place that people no longer wish to use (life is depressing enough at the moment!)
In a time when people’s mental health is challenging enough with every day life pressures, we don’t need this place making it worse! This should be somewhere where people can get a release from those strains.
I’m not going to say any more on the matter other than all of us have a responsibility here.
I’m also going to probably take some time out as I used to see this place as a bit of a haven to be able to relax, discuss all things gas with good likeminded approachable people and enjoy reading and understanding other peoples views whereas now all I see on pretty much every thread is arguing and not constructive debate.
I won’t delete my account as I know I’d just come back in time and I’d miss Jocks what’s for dinner thread too much!
Take care all and here’s hoping that once the football starts we’ll all find it easier and be able to focus on something else.
Yours
Bluestickgas
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jul 29, 2021 15:58:43 GMT
I know I said I'd stay off this thread, but it's gone away from missing members and general mod discussions and into an anti Roverdrive thread. I shut down 2 polls for the same reason which in part led to some people leaving. I explained then, as I do now that witch hunts for/against posters isn't good for anyone. I think LJG has put forward a well thought out and reasoned argument as to why we as a mod team "allowed" RD to post what he did and in his own style. Personally, I prefer a more balanced approach and I told RD that but we are all individuals. I don't know how many times I can repeat, we are posters first. It's also all well and good having a pop and blaming a single mod for all the forums problems, lamenting the good old days when we were not like this while forgetting that Roverdrive was one of the first users of this site and is the longest serving moderator. He must have done something right! I'm not defending RD, because I think he would be the first to admit that he has sailed close to the wind recently and probably has blurred the boundaries but I can no longer stand by and see him hung out to dry because I don't think that's fair either. I am aware that even by posting this that I am about to bring another ton of sh** down on myself, but I really mean no offense and I totally understand how and why Roverdrive has turned into a panto villain in some people's eyes. But RD has worked hard in the background here from day one. He has been honest and supportive of me when I have had tough times on here. I am also aware that as a mod, I have made mistakes. I banned someone in anger a few months back, but rectified it and apologised. I can accept that that can look like an abuse of power and at the time it probably was. That said, as far as I can tell, one of the main things that has changed recently is the arrival of Joey Barton. Plenty of posters warned that he would divide and split our fanbase. They were ignored and in some cases, ridiculed. I personally underestimated just what baggage he would bring and just how heated we would become as a group. We have always had ups and downs here, and posters come and go, and some come back, and some don't. (I'm looking at you 5thUsername  ) but I have never known things as bad as they are now. I wish I knew how to make things better, but I'm completely at a loss and for that I can only apologise. All I will do is respectfully ask you all to just stop, and reread your own words before you click "post" and stop and reread the words of someone you don't agree with before you decide to get involved in an argument with someone. |
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Post by LJG on Jul 29, 2021 16:05:21 GMT
Yes, that's the same one. It is a question which asks which people would support a convicted wife beater. It is not a statement which says Barton is a convicted wife beater. The difference is the inclusion of the word "would" rather than "who supports" or "who still supports" which indeed would be a statement that Barton has been convicted. I don't understand how you don't understand the difference. Perhaps you do and you're just enjoying this public pile-on of a single user of the forum. could should would, I can see how it can be read either way, however the fact it was in the Barton ‘In or Out’ thread and aimed at those who had voted “in” makes it clear in my mind that it is reference to Barton. Well it is in reference to Barton but it is in relation to Barton in a potential future scenario not now. The Barton in/out thread gave 3 options: - stays in - must leave - innocent until proven guilty The inclusion of innocent until proven guilty gives us information about the other two options in that it now asks us to think of them as absolutes i.e. "stays in no matter what" and "must leave no matter what" rather than "stays for now unless proven guilty" and "must leave now but we'll look silly if found not guilty". Roverdrive is asking those who have voted stays in i.e. the ones saying he must stay no matter what and not innocent until proven guilty why they would say stays in no matter what when there is a possibility that he could be a convicted wife beater. All seems perfectly reasonable to me. |
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Post by cockergas on Jul 29, 2021 16:15:54 GMT
I know I said I'd stay off this thread, but it's gone away from missing members and general mod discussions and into an anti Roverdrive thread. I shut down 2 polls for the same reason which in part led to some people leaving. I explained then, as I do now that witch hunts for/against posters isn't good for anyone. I think LJG has put forward a well thought out and reasoned argument as to why we as a mod team "allowed" RD to post what he did and in his own style. Personally, I prefer a more balanced approach and I told RD that but we are all individuals. I don't know how many times I can repeat, we are posters first. It's also all well and good having a pop and blaming a single mod for all the forums problems, lamenting the good old days when we were not like this while forgetting that Roverdrive was one of the first users of this site and is the longest serving moderator. He must have done something right! I'm not defending RD, because I think he would be the first to admit that he has sailed close to the wind recently and probably has blurred the boundaries but I can no longer stand by and see him hung out to dry because I don't think that's fair either. I am aware that even by posting this that I am about to bring another ton of sh** down on myself, but I really mean no offense and I totally understand how and why Roverdrive has turned into a panto villain in some people's eyes. But RD has worked hard in the background here from day one. He has been honest and supportive of me when I have had tough times on here. I am also aware that as a mod, I have made mistakes. I banned someone in anger a few months back, but rectified it and apologised. I can accept that that can look like an abuse of power and at the time it probably was. That said, as far as I can tell, one of the main things that has changed recently is the arrival of Joey Barton. Plenty of posters warned that he would divide and split our fanbase. They were ignored and in some cases, ridiculed. I personally underestimated just what baggage he would bring and just how heated we would become as a group. We have always had ups and downs here, and posters come and go, and some come back, and some don't. (I'm looking at you 5thUsername ) but I have never known things as bad as they are now. I wish I knew how to make things better, but I'm completely at a loss and for that I can only apologise. All I will do is respectfully ask you all to just stop, and reread your own words before you click "post" and stop and reread the words of someone you don't agree with before you decide to get involved in an argument with someone. Hugo, sorry if I have overstepped the mark, it was not intention. I have no beef with RD, he is fully entitled to his views. I was merely using his recent post as an example of the type of thing that could cause people to go missing, and as you have stated he is aware that he has ‘sailed close to the wind’ . it seemed to escalate from there although that was never my intention. |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jul 29, 2021 16:28:10 GMT
I know I said I'd stay off this thread, but it's gone away from missing members and general mod discussions and into an anti Roverdrive thread. I shut down 2 polls for the same reason which in part led to some people leaving. I explained then, as I do now that witch hunts for/against posters isn't good for anyone. I think LJG has put forward a well thought out and reasoned argument as to why we as a mod team "allowed" RD to post what he did and in his own style. Personally, I prefer a more balanced approach and I told RD that but we are all individuals. I don't know how many times I can repeat, we are posters first. It's also all well and good having a pop and blaming a single mod for all the forums problems, lamenting the good old days when we were not like this while forgetting that Roverdrive was one of the first users of this site and is the longest serving moderator. He must have done something right! I'm not defending RD, because I think he would be the first to admit that he has sailed close to the wind recently and probably has blurred the boundaries but I can no longer stand by and see him hung out to dry because I don't think that's fair either. I am aware that even by posting this that I am about to bring another ton of sh** down on myself, but I really mean no offense and I totally understand how and why Roverdrive has turned into a panto villain in some people's eyes. But RD has worked hard in the background here from day one. He has been honest and supportive of me when I have had tough times on here. I am also aware that as a mod, I have made mistakes. I banned someone in anger a few months back, but rectified it and apologised. I can accept that that can look like an abuse of power and at the time it probably was. That said, as far as I can tell, one of the main things that has changed recently is the arrival of Joey Barton. Plenty of posters warned that he would divide and split our fanbase. They were ignored and in some cases, ridiculed. I personally underestimated just what baggage he would bring and just how heated we would become as a group. We have always had ups and downs here, and posters come and go, and some come back, and some don't. (I'm looking at you 5thUsername ) but I have never known things as bad as they are now. I wish I knew how to make things better, but I'm completely at a loss and for that I can only apologise. All I will do is respectfully ask you all to just stop, and reread your own words before you click "post" and stop and reread the words of someone you don't agree with before you decide to get involved in an argument with someone. Hugo, sorry if I have overstepped the mark, it was not intention. I have no beef with RD, he is fully entitled to his views. I was merely using his recent post as an example of the type of thing that could cause people to go missing, and as you have stated he is aware that he has ‘sailed close to the wind’ . it seemed to escalate from there although that was never my intention. nothing to worry about in anything said on here. I just wanted to see right by RD, while acknowledging that I understand how his style can be misinterpreted. His heart really is in the right place  |
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Post by BishopstonBRFC on Jul 29, 2021 16:40:08 GMT
I know I said I'd stay off this thread, but it's gone away from missing members and general mod discussions and into an anti Roverdrive thread. I shut down 2 polls for the same reason which in part led to some people leaving. I explained then, as I do now that witch hunts for/against posters isn't good for anyone. I think LJG has put forward a well thought out and reasoned argument as to why we as a mod team "allowed" RD to post what he did and in his own style. Personally, I prefer a more balanced approach and I told RD that but we are all individuals. I don't know how many times I can repeat, we are posters first. It's also all well and good having a pop and blaming a single mod for all the forums problems, lamenting the good old days when we were not like this while forgetting that Roverdrive was one of the first users of this site and is the longest serving moderator. He must have done something right! I'm not defending RD, because I think he would be the first to admit that he has sailed close to the wind recently and probably has blurred the boundaries but I can no longer stand by and see him hung out to dry because I don't think that's fair either. I am aware that even by posting this that I am about to bring another ton of sh** down on myself, but I really mean no offense and I totally understand how and why Roverdrive has turned into a panto villain in some people's eyes. But RD has worked hard in the background here from day one. He has been honest and supportive of me when I have had tough times on here. I am also aware that as a mod, I have made mistakes. I banned someone in anger a few months back, but rectified it and apologised. I can accept that that can look like an abuse of power and at the time it probably was. That said, as far as I can tell, one of the main things that has changed recently is the arrival of Joey Barton. Plenty of posters warned that he would divide and split our fanbase. They were ignored and in some cases, ridiculed. I personally underestimated just what baggage he would bring and just how heated we would become as a group. We have always had ups and downs here, and posters come and go, and some come back, and some don't. (I'm looking at you 5thUsername ) but I have never known things as bad as they are now. I wish I knew how to make things better, but I'm completely at a loss and for that I can only apologise. All I will do is respectfully ask you all to just stop, and reread your own words before you click "post" and stop and reread the words of someone you don't agree with before you decide to get involved in an argument with someone. Getting rid of Barton would probably be a start! |
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Post by LJG on Jul 29, 2021 16:45:46 GMT
Getting rid of Barton would probably be a start! SteveK will be along with your "re-education" in just a moment. |
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) but I have never known things as bad as they are now.
