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Post by gashead1981 on Jan 29, 2023 13:41:23 GMT
I see the problems we have as generating from the midfield. Main problem we seem to have surrounds Coutts and his inability to play facing the opposition goal. He plays with his back turned running possession sideways or backwards.
That’s fine when you’re 3-0 up and seeing a game out. However when we’re set up like that it means we start with no energy and it invites opposition teams onto us to press our midfield.
It would also be ok if Coutts had a good range of passing whereby when we are pressed, the right forward pass is found to open up play. I believe this is part of the JB tactic, but the problem with it is Coutts has a limited range or is no longer quick enough to see the killer pass.
As a result our more creative players, Evans, Collins, Finley and Sinclair have to drop deeper to collect possession or offer themselves. So we are constantly bottlenecking our midfield and as a result, Coburn is isolated and we play hoofball to reach him from the back.
Conversely, if we lose possession on Coutts misplaces one of his sideways passes, because we have played inciting the opposition onto us, it makes for easy breaks to run at us. Coutts then can’t keep up with that kind of play and the rest of the midfielders are caught 15 yards further forward.
It’s been the scene for most of our goals this year and it’s so frustrating because it’s so damn obvious.
When Rossiter was in the team it was much different, him and Finley took it in turns to anchor the midfield, we played much more aggressively and our attackers connected.
It’s true we do need another centre half at the back to strengthen the rear guard, but if we could sort out what’s just in front of them we will cure 70% of the issue.
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Post by eastgas on Jan 29, 2023 13:47:32 GMT
Yes definitely Coutts, Evans is out of sorts but there's a good player there, when he's confident and played in his correct position. Madness to suggest Connolly and Hoole, two very promising young players who will go on to do very well. I would keep Evans, bring him on as sub and play him in his best position, will allow him to get his confidence back. I think it's similar with Mccormick, we just aren't getting the best out of him for some reason? I have been saying for a while amongst my friendship group of gas heads, evans looks a showdown of last season because we have him playing on the right of a midfield 3. Evans should be playing behind the striker and playing his football in the final third of the pitch like last season. Unfortunately he is playing out of position to accommodate a new formation and playing style |
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Post by GasAttacK on Jan 29, 2023 13:55:35 GMT
Would love to see Coutts off the wage bill, and although it pains me to say it after last season, I think it's time for Evans to move on as well. McCormick has been relegated twice from L1 but performed pretty well for both teams at this level, so I'm not sure why he looks like a shadow of the player he was. Three of our midfield, Coutts, Finley & Evans, were released by Fleetwood and Crewe. They're smallish clubs at this level and Crewe have since been relegated, but they decided Coutts, Finley, and Evans weren't good enough and it looks like they were right. Wouldn't be sorry to see Connolly, Coutts, Finley, Evans, or McCormick leave to be honest. I think we need better. Whether we can get them is another thing altogether. There's zero chance of JB spending £100K+ on a player in one window then releasing him in the next window, I also can't see McM could take much blame for yesterday's hammering. Certainly not blaming McCormick for yesterdays hammering and I agree, I doubt Barton is likely to give up on him yet.
However, he's made 25 appearances this season and I think you could count on 1 or 2 fingers the amount of times he's made a positive impact.
Weakest link is Coutts.
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Jan 29, 2023 13:56:29 GMT
Would love to see Coutts off the wage bill, and although it pains me to say it after last season, I think it's time for Evans to move on as well. McCormick has been relegated twice from L1 but performed pretty well for both teams at this level, so I'm not sure why he looks like a shadow of the player he was. Three of our midfield, Coutts, Finley & Evans, were released by Fleetwood and Crewe. They're smallish clubs at this level and Crewe have since been relegated, but they decided Coutts, Finley, and Evans weren't good enough and it looks like they were right. Wouldn't be sorry to see Connolly, Coutts, Finley, Evans, or McCormick leave to be honest. I think we need better. Whether we can get them is another thing altogether. Evans was on loan at Crewe. He was released by SC Paderborn, who yoyo between the Bundesliga and Bundesliga 2. |
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Post by GasAttacK on Jan 29, 2023 14:01:47 GMT
Would love to see Coutts off the wage bill, and although it pains me to say it after last season, I think it's time for Evans to move on as well. McCormick has been relegated twice from L1 but performed pretty well for both teams at this level, so I'm not sure why he looks like a shadow of the player he was. Three of our midfield, Coutts, Finley & Evans, were released by Fleetwood and Crewe. They're smallish clubs at this level and Crewe have since been relegated, but they decided Coutts, Finley, and Evans weren't good enough and it looks like they were right. Wouldn't be sorry to see Connolly, Coutts, Finley, Evans, or McCormick leave to be honest. I think we need better. Whether we can get them is another thing altogether. Evans was on loan at Crewe. He was released by SC Paderborn, who yoyo between the Bundesliga and Bundesliga 2. Okay, fair enough.
However, I remember reading plenty of comments from Crewe fans saying he was very poor for them. Nowhere near L1 standard was their view. Have to say, based on this season they've got a point. |
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Post by eric on Jan 29, 2023 14:40:32 GMT
Last season we switched to 4231 around Christmas and it worked because we had the right players for that formation and not the 3 at the back wing backs formation. I can’t understand why Barton hasn’t really used that formation this season we still have the players for it we could use corburn as the striker then we’ve got the likes of Sinclair , Collins Evans , loft Marquis etc all capable of playing in one of the three attacking midfield / inside forward roles behind/ around him. this season so far has been very much like the first half of last season in that Joe is constantly chopping and changing everything and he doesn’t seem to know his best formation or team and whilst we’ve done ok and are mid table I really think that a settled side with a settled formation that suits the players we have is the way forward from here on. The season isn’t over there’s still play off places for grabs and we’re not definitely safe either. It’s a big few days until the window closes and once it does it’s time to stop experimenting and build a bit of solid backbone and consistency and put the pre season type experimenting to bed. Agree and have been saying the same for a while. The squad looks far better suited to 4-2-3-1 and the best chance of Evans recovering his form would be in the number 10 position in the middle of the three. |
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Post by warehamgas on Jan 29, 2023 15:06:35 GMT
Last season we switched to 4231 around Christmas and it worked because we had the right players for that formation and not the 3 at the back wing backs formation. I can’t understand why Barton hasn’t really used that formation this season we still have the players for it we could use corburn as the striker then we’ve got the likes of Sinclair , Collins Evans , loft Marquis etc all capable of playing in one of the three attacking midfield / inside forward roles behind/ around him. this season so far has been very much like the first half of last season in that Joe is constantly chopping and changing everything and he doesn’t seem to know his best formation or team and whilst we’ve done ok and are mid table I really think that a settled side with a settled formation that suits the players we have is the way forward from here on. The season isn’t over there’s still play off places for grabs and we’re not definitely safe either. It’s a big few days until the window closes and once it does it’s time to stop experimenting and build a bit of solid backbone and consistency and put the pre season type experimenting to bed. Yes, I agree. It’s seemed strange that he had a system that suited the players he had and yet hasn’t taken advantage of it. But that seems to be JB. After comments about other teams playing a back 4 I’m sure he’s talked himself into a corner where he thinks playing a back 4 would be a comedown so he perseveres with a 3 (although yesterday it did seem a back 4 for much of the game). It’s similar to the situation, imo, where he said that the best signings are made at the end of the window and played down the early signings made by some. It’s been clear we needed a midfielder, so let’s hope Ward is that player. When JB uses his football brain and sets up the team and is doing football stuff he can be exceptional but sometimes I think he says things that come to bite him on the *** and he finds himself in a difficult situation all of his own making. It has happened on several occasions. He tries to be almost too clever. The surprising thing to me about yesterday was how the character and determination of the side seemed to collapse. On many times this season and last this side found themselves behind yet recovered to get points. Whilst I think you could criticise the team for lack of quality sometimes their character couldn’t be questioned they always persevered. I hope it was just a bad day at the office with too many having a bad day. UTG! |
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Jan 29, 2023 15:20:13 GMT
There’s no chance we’re gonna make a promotion push this season now. Forget it . |
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Post by eric on Jan 29, 2023 15:22:08 GMT
Last season we switched to 4231 around Christmas and it worked because we had the right players for that formation and not the 3 at the back wing backs formation. I can’t understand why Barton hasn’t really used that formation this season we still have the players for it we could use corburn as the striker then we’ve got the likes of Sinclair , Collins Evans , loft Marquis etc all capable of playing in one of the three attacking midfield / inside forward roles behind/ around him. this season so far has been very much like the first half of last season in that Joe is constantly chopping and changing everything and he doesn’t seem to know his best formation or team and whilst we’ve done ok and are mid table I really think that a settled side with a settled formation that suits the players we have is the way forward from here on. The season isn’t over there’s still play off places for grabs and we’re not definitely safe either. It’s a big few days until the window closes and once it does it’s time to stop experimenting and build a bit of solid backbone and consistency and put the pre season type experimenting to bed. Yes, I agree. It’s seemed strange that he had a system that suited the players he had and yet hasn’t taken advantage of it. But that seems to be JB. After comments about other teams playing a back 4 I’m sure he’s talked himself into a corner where he thinks playing a back 4 would be a comedown so he perseveres with a 3 (although yesterday it did seem a back 4 for much of the game). It’s similar to the situation, imo, where he said that the best signings are made at the end of the window and played down the early signings made by some. It’s been clear we needed a midfielder, so let’s hope Ward is that player. When JB uses his football brain and sets up the team and is doing football stuff he can be exceptional but sometimes I think he says things that come to bite him on the *** and he finds himself in a difficult situation all of his own making. It has happened on several occasions. He tries to be almost too clever. The surprising thing to me about yesterday was how the character and determination of the side seemed to collapse. On many times this season and last this side found themselves behind yet recovered to get points. Whilst I think you could criticise the team for lack of quality sometimes their character couldn’t be questioned they always persevered. I hope it was just a bad day at the office with too many having a bad day. UTG! Wasn’t his criticism of 4 at the back relating to those persevering with an old fashioned 4-4-2? (Possibly aimed at Danny Cowley when he was still at Pompey?) |
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Post by warehamgas on Jan 29, 2023 15:33:09 GMT
Yes, I agree. It’s seemed strange that he had a system that suited the players he had and yet hasn’t taken advantage of it. But that seems to be JB. After comments about other teams playing a back 4 I’m sure he’s talked himself into a corner where he thinks playing a back 4 would be a comedown so he perseveres with a 3 (although yesterday it did seem a back 4 for much of the game). It’s similar to the situation, imo, where he said that the best signings are made at the end of the window and played down the early signings made by some. It’s been clear we needed a midfielder, so let’s hope Ward is that player. When JB uses his football brain and sets up the team and is doing football stuff he can be exceptional but sometimes I think he says things that come to bite him on the *** and he finds himself in a difficult situation all of his own making. It has happened on several occasions. He tries to be almost too clever. The surprising thing to me about yesterday was how the character and determination of the side seemed to collapse. On many times this season and last this side found themselves behind yet recovered to get points. Whilst I think you could criticise the team for lack of quality sometimes their character couldn’t be questioned they always persevered. I hope it was just a bad day at the office with too many having a bad day. UTG! Wasn’t his criticism of 4 at the back relating to those persevering with an old fashioned 4-4-2? (Possibly aimed at Danny Cowley when he was still at Pompey?) It was eric. I was at a party in Pompey in November and a Pompey fan once he knew I was a gashead was having a good laugh about JB. At Christmas he wasn’t quite as cocky with us above them. My point was that JB seems to see external things, having a go at other managers, other clubs and trying to show himself in a good light and how because he’s played in the PL he’ll know more than others etc. etc as being important. If he just concentrated on the football side and let his football and results speak for him I’m sure he’d be a better manager because he’s very good at the actual football stuff. UTG! |
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Post by oldie on Jan 29, 2023 16:44:10 GMT
Wasn’t his criticism of 4 at the back relating to those persevering with an old fashioned 4-4-2? (Possibly aimed at Danny Cowley when he was still at Pompey?) It was eric. I was at a party in Pompey in November and a Pompey fan once he knew I was a gashead was having a good laugh about JB. At Christmas he wasn’t quite as cocky with us above them. My point was that JB seems to see external things, having a go at other managers, other clubs and trying to show himself in a good light and how because he’s played in the PL he’ll know more than others etc. etc as being important. If he just concentrated on the football side and let his football and results speak for him I’m sure he’d be a better manager because he’s very good at the actual football stuff. UTG! Yep...not sure that his tactics and game management this season qualifies as "good at the actual football stuff" though🤔 |
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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 29, 2023 17:06:03 GMT
There’s no chance we’re gonna make a promotion push this season now. Forget it . I was simply highlighting JB's comments in response to the OP's relegation concerns. |
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Jan 29, 2023 17:21:38 GMT
There’s no chance we’re gonna make a promotion push this season now. Forget it . I was simply highlighting JB's comments in response to the OP's relegation concerns. Yep , I wasn’t implying you were . Just saying JB is spouting rubbish if he thinks we can mount a promotion bid this season. |
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Post by warehamgas on Jan 29, 2023 18:46:21 GMT
It was eric. I was at a party in Pompey in November and a Pompey fan once he knew I was a gashead was having a good laugh about JB. At Christmas he wasn’t quite as cocky with us above them. My point was that JB seems to see external things, having a go at other managers, other clubs and trying to show himself in a good light and how because he’s played in the PL he’ll know more than others etc. etc as being important. If he just concentrated on the football side and let his football and results speak for him I’m sure he’d be a better manager because he’s very good at the actual football stuff. UTG! Yep...not sure that his tactics and game management this season qualifies as "good at the actual football stuff" though🤔 Perhaps but when he concentrates on the football stuff I think he’s probably a good manager. But he gets sidelined quite often and that’s been a problem, imo. And after yesterday you may be more accurate than me! 😉 UTG! |
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Post by pudseygas on Jan 29, 2023 18:55:54 GMT
I was simply highlighting JB's comments in response to the OP's relegation concerns. Yep , I wasn’t implying you were . Just saying JB is spouting rubbish if he thinks we can mount a promotion bid this season. Just like last year when he said we'd 'get promoted, no doubt about it'. Whi actually thought that was going to happen this time last year? We were one loss in 12 6 weeks ago or something. A few draws that should have been wins if it wasn't for last minute equalisers, that would have put us well in the play offs at that point. Yes form has dipped, coinciding with Rossiter getting injured. Maybe Ward can step into that role and steady the ship, maybe there are a few imminent signings in the next day or so. To write off the season before the end of Jan is a bit much, even for rovers fans |
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Post by yategasman on Jan 29, 2023 19:05:26 GMT
If we are in the Top Half at the end of the season it would be a fantastic achievement anywhere but the bottom three will do😜👍
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Post by oldie on Jan 29, 2023 19:13:04 GMT
Yep...not sure that his tactics and game management this season qualifies as "good at the actual football stuff" though🤔 Perhaps but when he concentrates on the football stuff I think he’s probably a good manager. But he gets sidelined quite often and that’s been a problem, imo. And after yesterday you may be more accurate than me! 😉 UTG! Well, he does spout a lot of nonsense, but to be fair to him he has calmed down in recent months. So I am no longer convinced it is that which is holding him back, which translates into on the field performance. Take the left back Clarke. Offers him an extended contract then in effect sacks him, within weeks. Thomas, disliked it so much he asked for his loan to be terminated. Rossiter, good player at L1 level, but a terrible injury record and looks like he will miss a large part of the rest of the season. Gordon from Brentford, decent attacking wing back but doesn't play him. Gibbons from Vale, another injury prone player who has missed a number of weeks this season so far. Gibson from Everton had injury problems coming in and is now injured again. Playing Evans in a different position from his successful year last year. Hoole, home grown talent had a breakthrough year last year at wing back, often played out of position at centre back. If not for the brilliant play of Collins and Coburn (one gamble that has paid off to date) up front so far this season I believe we would be relegation fodder. That is down to Barton, his recruitment gambles, his tactics and game management (which has cost us numerous points) and his man management. I remain totally unconvinced by him. Would be great though to have to eat humble pie at the end of the season. It really would. |
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Post by Wimborne Gas on Jan 29, 2023 19:14:26 GMT
If we are in the Top Half at the end of the season it would be a fantastic achievement anywhere but the bottom three will do😜👍 Not really, four go down… |
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Post by DrFaustus on Jan 29, 2023 19:14:39 GMT
It was eric. I was at a party in Pompey in November and a Pompey fan once he knew I was a gashead was having a good laugh about JB. At Christmas he wasn’t quite as cocky with us above them. My point was that JB seems to see external things, having a go at other managers, other clubs and trying to show himself in a good light and how because he’s played in the PL he’ll know more than others etc. etc as being important. If he just concentrated on the football side and let his football and results speak for him I’m sure he’d be a better manager because he’s very good at the actual football stuff. UTG! Yep...not sure that his tactics and game management this season qualifies as "good at the actual football stuff" though🤔 Still banned from the grumpy site, Les? We're 12th. If you think that's unacceptable in our first season back, then maybe you should reign in your expectations. |
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Post by oldie on Jan 29, 2023 19:21:53 GMT
Yep...not sure that his tactics and game management this season qualifies as "good at the actual football stuff" though🤔 Still banned from the grumpy site, Les? We're 12th. If you think that's unacceptable in our first season back, then maybe you should reign in your expectations. 1. Yep, calling out racism is apparently against the rules. 2. We are 12th, but it's the end of January and I have the uneasy feeling that the foundations are built on shifting sands. |
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