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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2023 11:21:20 GMT
Oh god this will end in tears. Or tiers of a stand. If we do end up at the fruit market, wonderful. However, I do wish the board would give some serious consideration to reappraisal of their intransigence around redevelopment of The Mem. The space is there and 18,000 with capacity to increase to 22/23k would be mint. Back to the world of dreams. No, tears as in boo hoo “It’s July and the South Stand hasn’t been dismantled yet”. You wait, it’s coming….. |
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Post by Gaswood on Feb 17, 2023 11:31:52 GMT
If they do refresh and improve it then great, but if not I actually don’t mind the South West Stand at all, as it’s where we currently sit… having always stood on the Blackthorn / Thatchers until this year, I used to think the South and South West were both embarrassing and not at all fit for purpose, but now we sit down there, it’s not as bad as I thought from afar. Yes it’s still embarrassing to have tents. Yes it would be better if more substantial. But overall I do still enjoy taking my place down there with my kids, who love it! 🤣
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Post by DrFaustus on Feb 17, 2023 11:37:00 GMT
Or tiers of a stand. If we do end up at the fruit market, wonderful. However, I do wish the board would give some serious consideration to reappraisal of their intransigence around redevelopment of The Mem. The space is there and 18,000 with capacity to increase to 22/23k would be mint. Back to the world of dreams. No, tears as in boo hoo “It’s July and the South Stand hasn’t been dismantled yet”. You wait, it’s coming….. Afraid you're probably right. Then it will be tears about tiers. Anyway, UTFG 🏴☠️ |
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Post by DrFaustus on Feb 17, 2023 11:38:47 GMT
Or tiers of a stand. If we do end up at the fruit market, wonderful. However, I do wish the board would give some serious consideration to reappraisal of their intransigence around redevelopment of The Mem. The space is there and 18,000 with capacity to increase to 22/23k would be mint. Back to the world of dreams. I wonder how much a new stand, albeit semi permanent is going to cost? Redevelopment of the Mem, I'd love to see it but I cannot see how we could make it pay. Brentford's stadium which holds 17250 seats cost £70m. Thats £4050 per seat roughly. If we were to build the same then at £400 per season ticket that would take you 10 years to pay back assuming no interest on the debt and you sell all the seats for every game. Even if we limited the build cost to £2k and put in 20k seats for additional capacity, promotions and local derbies in mind thats still £40m to find! Thats just some back of the fag packet numbers but gives an idea on why the club is baulking at the idea of a Mem redevelopment. I put this on the FM thread DrF, does this seem a reasonable cost and if so, how do we raise the £40m and what else could we do to increase the ROI to give greater returns both up front and in the future which would contribute for an increased budget? The ones that are saying "just rebuild the mem" arent in any way working out any form of numbers before making the statement to me and no one builds a house without at first counting the cost. Don't ask me daft questions like, "how much will it cost?". Good grief man, that would involve cogent thought, something that is anathema to me on a Friday! 👍🏴☠️🍺🇪🇸 |
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Post by gashead1981 on Feb 17, 2023 11:39:17 GMT
I wonder how much a new stand, albeit semi permanent is going to cost? Redevelopment of the Mem, I'd love to see it but I cannot see how we could make it pay. Brentford's stadium which holds 17250 seats cost £70m. Thats £4050 per seat roughly. If we were to build the same then at £400 per season ticket that would take you 10 years to pay back assuming no interest on the debt and you sell all the seats for every game. Even if we limited the build cost to £2k and put in 20k seats for additional capacity, promotions and local derbies in mind thats still £40m to find! Thats just some back of the fag packet numbers but gives an idea on why the club is baulking at the idea of a Mem redevelopment. I put this on the FM thread DrF, does this seem a reasonable cost and if so, how do we raise the £40m and what else could we do to increase the ROI to give greater returns both up front and in the future which would contribute for an increased budget? The ones that are saying "just rebuild the mem" arent in any way working out any form of numbers before making the statement to me and no one builds a house without at first counting the cost. A basic stand is roughly £1m per 1,000 seats although that's probably increased somewhat in recent years. Not sure dividing the Brentford costs across the whole capacity is accurate as it would include facilities that wouldn't be in the proposed South Stand, but may be a decent ball park figure for a total redevelopment, it really depends on what is inside the stands. How much did the AG redevelopment cost? That may be a good gauge. A basic stand, is that the temp stand we are putting in or for a knock down a rebuild? If its a permanent structure then I would say thats grossly underestimated and would love to know the breakdown cost on that. The reason I used Brentford as it was a ground up build and people are tallking about replacing every stand at the mem making it a new stadium. Believe it or not the Ashton Gate refurb started in 2014 (nearly 10 years ago) and cost £45m, that was a 3 side redevelopment. Lansdown stand 11k seats, South and Dolman 6k seats which works out to be £1950 per seat roughly. Factor in the rising cost of building and materials since 2014 trying to redevelop the mem for £2k per seat would be a tough ask and makes Brentfords stadium an even more realistic figure IMO. |
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Post by Gaswood on Feb 17, 2023 11:43:45 GMT
A basic stand is roughly £1m per 1,000 seats although that's probably increased somewhat in recent years. Not sure dividing the Brentford costs across the whole capacity is accurate as it would include facilities that wouldn't be in the proposed South Stand, but may be a decent ball park figure for a total redevelopment, it really depends on what is inside the stands. How much did the AG redevelopment cost? That may be a good gauge. A basic stand, is that the temp stand we are putting in or for a knock down a rebuild? If its a permanent structure then I would say thats grossly underestimated and would love to know the breakdown cost on that. The reason I used Brentford as it was a ground up build and people are tallking about replacing every stand at the mem making it a new stadium. Believe it or not the Ashton Gate refurb started in 2014 (nearly 10 years ago) and cost £45m, that was a 3 side redevelopment. Lansdown stand 11k seats, South and Dolman 6k seats which works out to be £1950 per seat roughly. Factor in the rising cost of building and materials since 2014 trying to redevelop the mem for £2k per seat would be a tough ask and makes Brentfords stadium an even more realistic figure IMO. Much as it pains me to say it, the spec of the rebuild at AG is pretty high so probably not chosen the cheapest options, rather the best options, so the cost is not indicative of the cheapest viable option as money probably wasn’t much of an issue. |
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 17, 2023 11:45:11 GMT
A basic stand is roughly £1m per 1,000 seats although that's probably increased somewhat in recent years. Not sure dividing the Brentford costs across the whole capacity is accurate as it would include facilities that wouldn't be in the proposed South Stand, but may be a decent ball park figure for a total redevelopment, it really depends on what is inside the stands. How much did the AG redevelopment cost? That may be a good gauge. A basic stand, is that the temp stand we are putting in or for a knock down a rebuild? If its a permanent structure then I would say thats grossly underestimated and would love to know the breakdown cost on that. The reason I used Brentford as it was a ground up build and people are tallking about replacing every stand at the mem making it a new stadium. Believe it or not the Ashton Gate refurb started in 2014 (nearly 10 years ago) and cost £45m, that was a 3 side redevelopment. Lansdown stand 11k seats, South and Dolman 6k seats which works out to be £1950 per seat roughly. Factor in the rising cost of building and materials since 2014 trying to redevelop the mem for £2k per seat would be a tough ask and makes Brentfords stadium an even more realistic figure IMO. Could be a good guide and working assumption, certainly for us mere mortals. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2023 11:50:18 GMT
Oh god this will end in tears. Or tiers of a stand. If we do end up at the fruit market, wonderful. However, I do wish the board would give some serious consideration to reappraisal of their intransigence around redevelopment of The Mem. The space is there and 18,000 with capacity to increase to 22/23k would be mint. Back to the world of dreams. With you all the way with this one. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 17, 2023 12:38:46 GMT
Surely whatever the Mem costs to rebuild the FM would cost exactly the same to build, apart from the costs of clearing both sites, so if it comes down to just RoI why's the FM going to generate that much more, it's not like there'll be no competition for conferences etc. You do wonder if it's RoI or it's the only option where we can sell the Mem for £m's then just lease the FM. How do Liverpool make Anfield pay when it's built in the middle of houses?
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Post by yattongas on Feb 17, 2023 12:47:49 GMT
Proper roofs should really add to the atmosphere in the ground.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2023 12:49:11 GMT
Surely whatever the Mem costs to rebuild the FM would cost exactly the same to build, apart from the costs of clearing both sites, so if it comes down to just RoI why's the FM going to generate that much more, it's not like there'll be no competition for conferences etc. You do wonder if it's RoI or it's the only option where we can sell the Mem for £m's then just lease the FM. How do Liverpool make Anfield pay when it's built in the middle of houses? Wasn't the plan for the Fruit Market that it would be built and paid for by the developer and Rovers would lease it and in return the developer would take ownership of The Mem? I'm sure that was the plan and reported as so by Bristol Live. |
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Post by gashead1981 on Feb 17, 2023 13:04:28 GMT
Surely whatever the Mem costs to rebuild the FM would cost exactly the same to build, apart from the costs of clearing both sites, so if it comes down to just RoI why's the FM going to generate that much more, it's not like there'll be no competition for conferences etc. You do wonder if it's RoI or it's the only option where we can sell the Mem for £m's then just lease the FM. How do Liverpool make Anfield pay when it's built in the middle of houses? Firstly, you cant compare us to Liverpool and Anfield when you have £100m of Prem money + Champs league + already a 45k seater stadium + Brand Liverpool which brings in global revenue per annum. Its the very reason above we need to look at maximising stadium use locally or having a multipurpose site where youll be able to draw an income from mixed industrial use opportunity which will be unrestricted. The mem will come with fairly heavy restrictions, especially with noise meaning we wont be able to maximise what AG do in the close season, for example. Its unlikely we will own the freehold the FM would be built on, there would probably be some 1000 year lease given so we wouldnt have to spend £60m on land. The ground rent cost will be absorbed into any additional commercial rental opportunity we can make on whatever else we can build on the site. Meaning that if we sell the mem for £35-40m, which is what that plot is worth I am told for housing, then you only have to find £20-30m to build a completely multi-use stadium with no restrictions and absolute carte blanche to build whatever infrastructure you want to ROI the site. |
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Post by yattongas on Feb 17, 2023 13:13:26 GMT
Surely whatever the Mem costs to rebuild the FM would cost exactly the same to build, apart from the costs of clearing both sites, so if it comes down to just RoI why's the FM going to generate that much more, it's not like there'll be no competition for conferences etc. You do wonder if it's RoI or it's the only option where we can sell the Mem for £m's then just lease the FM. How do Liverpool make Anfield pay when it's built in the middle of houses? Firstly, you cant compare us to Liverpool and Anfield when you have £100m of Prem money + Champs league + already a 45k seater stadium + Brand Liverpool which brings in global revenue per annum. Its the very reason above we need to look at maximising stadium use locally or having a multipurpose site where youll be able to draw an income from mixed industrial use opportunity which will be unrestricted. The mem will come with fairly heavy restrictions, especially with noise meaning we wont be able to maximise what AG do in the close season, for example. It’s unlikely we will own the freehold the FM would be built on, there would probably be some 1000 year lease given so we wouldnt have to spend £60m on land. The ground rent cost will be absorbed into any additional commercial rental opportunity we can make on whatever else we can build on the site. Meaning that if we sell the mem for £35-40m, which is what that plot is worth I am told for housing, then you only have to find £20-30m to build a completely multi-use stadium with no restrictions and absolute carte blanche to build whatever infrastructure you want to ROI the site. 35-45 million? That seems a bit high to me . I’d guess more like 15-20 million . I’ll caveat this by admitting I know naff all ! |
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Post by DrFaustus on Feb 17, 2023 13:27:18 GMT
I’ll caveat this by admitting I know naff all ! , he's finally admitted what we've known for ages. |
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Post by playtowin on Feb 17, 2023 13:28:45 GMT
If the aim is to improve facilities whilst also increasing capacity that opens a few options.
As the open terrace is seen as sub standard accommodation for fans losing some of it may be a good thing.
So moving the pitch towards the north terrace by 2 metres is a definite option.
If the rake of the new stand is steeper then an extra few rows might be added.
The key will be if the whole width of the pitch can be used even if it tapers to less rows of seats.
Having the seated stand as the only away places available allows more home standing on the East terrace.
Home seating at the south would therefore be available on a match by match basis depending on away take up.
We could push the capacity upto the 10,000 mark. Which is still too low but better than what it currently is.
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Post by oldmarket65 on Feb 17, 2023 13:39:14 GMT
If the aim is to improve facilities whilst also increasing capacity that opens a few options. As the open terrace is seen as sub standard accommodation for fans losing some of it may be a good thing. So moving the pitch towards the north terrace by 2 metres is a definite option. If the rake of the new stand is steeper then an extra few rows might be added. The key will be if the whole width of the pitch can be used even if it tapers to less rows of seats. Having the seated stand as the only away places available allows more home standing on the East terrace. Home seating at the south would therefore be available on a match by match basis depending on away take up. We could push the capacity upto the 10,000 mark. Which is still too low but better than what it currently is. I could be wrong but I believe the capacity is now 10000. They had 9k v FGR : 9.2k v Muff 9.7k v cheltenham but they were short by 300-400 ( C.F.C). To justify spending quite a bit of money on a L shaped stand must mean an increase to around 11000 - 11500 otherwise its not worth it. |
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Post by yattongas on Feb 17, 2023 13:43:23 GMT
I’ll caveat this by admitting I know naff all ! , he's finally admitted what we've known for ages. Oi ! |
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Post by percy on Feb 17, 2023 13:56:03 GMT
Oi, this is my thread stop talking about the FM or redeveloping the Mem  Jokes aside, I would imagine they are looking at a semi-permanent structure - i.e. one that can be dismantled and sold at end of life/move elsewhere so would be cheaper than all the permanent groundworks needed and give some re-sale value. He guesses |
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Post by yattongas on Feb 17, 2023 13:58:30 GMT
Oi, this is my thread stop talking about the FM or redeveloping the Mem Jokes aside, I would imagine they are looking at a semi-permanent structure - i.e. one that can be dismantled and sold at end of life/move elsewhere so would be cheaper than all the permanent groundworks needed and give some re-sale value. He guesses Agreed , Wael is ordering a big meccano set . |
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 17, 2023 14:03:08 GMT
I got a little bit excited when I heard about a new family stand, I know this is supposed to be different, but forgive me for not getting too excited. I’m a lot older than you pirate!! 😉 So when anything about a new ground, new part of the Mem comes up, esp from the CEO, a paid employee and not someone’s cousin who knows someone who worked in the bar two years ago I get more excited. ☹️ Stupid I know! UTG! |
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