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Post by playtowin on Mar 7, 2023 11:59:20 GMT
So similar to the original redevelopment plan, apart from flats were for students. Looking at the original mock-ups there was hardly enough parking space for players. No idea what the plan was for visiting coaches. Just imaging having all those cars normally in the car park added to on street parking, then the increase in attendance.... It did look exceptionally tight but the council planners must have been aware and approved it anyway, so maybe there was an area of parking not revealed in the images, maybe behind the new East stand. It would never have been passed without some level of adequate parking for staff, visitors, disabled etc. There was no parking for the accommodation and the minimum allowed by FA/EFL rules for games as far as i remember. |
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Post by amgas on Mar 7, 2023 15:32:30 GMT
Surprised the club have never considered building student accommodation in the car park rather than the corners of the stadium. Might even be possible to have car parking still at ground level with accommodation above. A much cheaper build, then use money to improve stadium without a total rebuild.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2023 15:38:33 GMT
Surprised the club have never considered building student accommodation in the car park rather than the corners of the stadium. Might even be possible to have car parking still at ground level with accommodation above. A much cheaper build, then use money to improve stadium without a total rebuild. That's what Exeter City did in their car park behind the Big Bank which paid for their recent new stand and rebuild of the away end with a roof. They actually got the idea from our original plans for The Mem and used the same advisers.  |
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 7, 2023 19:29:49 GMT
How's that different from any other football league club.. it's hardly got us anywhere. Don't get me wrong he's a nice bloke but the standard of football is right back where he started. If I'm honest I haven't got a clue what the clubs objective is other than just about staying afloat. A lot of the money he's writing off is down to some bloody awful decision making and recruitment on his part. This is something I challenged a few on the OF to do when this statement was made. Go through the club accounts and pick out where the money was wasted, how much that waste is and whether we are repeating the same waste. So far no one has done it. The best we had was that the quarters were a waste of money and we should’ve rented a facility instead. Swissgas' point was why are we paying out £3m more each season in wages etc than the likes of Exeter and Shrewsbury, to be fair he did have a good point as where is the extra £3m going, as the quality of the playing squad seems no better than those two teams. TG confirmed in his recent podcast that the club is still losing £3m a season, so promotion doesn't seem to have reduced the annual losses. |
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Post by wider on Mar 7, 2023 23:12:52 GMT
This thread is supposed to be about South/South West Stand?
There seems to be more debate about club finances and is Wael doing a decent job or what he promised?
To me replacing the tent/s with a semi permanent structure makes sense now because we are (nearly/sometimes) filling The Mem. Up till now there hasn’t been the likelihood of a financial return.
The Mem isn’t in the right location to develop and generate income to become sustainable - we can’t make any additional noise nor hold big events because of the locals and planners so investment is wasted unless able to generate a short term return (even that is risky).
Wael (through Tom recently) has said the aim is still to find a new stadium. I’ve been a Rovers fan for over 60 years and hope I’m able to finally sit in it. I never sat in Eastville, stood in Muller Road End first, then Tote End and occasionally South or North Enclosure. Never went to Twerton as we are Bristol Rovers not Bath - gave what would have been my entrance money to Share Scheme. So pleased when we got to The Mem and I could stand in the Blackthorn End. Gradually moved to sitting in the West Stand.
From where I sit the stadium doesn’t look that awful (better with one of the tents gone!). Despite my advanced years I rarely use the facilities but found them ok just before Christmas when I came on the bus (from Bath, in walking distance of Twerton) so had a few more drinks than usual. Not brilliant but ok and better than some away venues.
Before retiring I was a surveyor who got into property development and design. I worked for a national construction company for a while and then joined an architects practice to head project management eventually becoming a Partner so have a bit of experience of how to get things built. A site for a stadium is not an easy thing to find. Bristol area (including North Somerset, South Gloucestershire and BANES) is known as one of the most difficult areas to get planning permission in. Like this forum, we all have plenty to say about why things shouldn’t happen or what’s wrong - rarely do we accept that perfection is unlikely and that people are doing their best.
I think Wael is doing his best as our owner and deserves our support (on and off the pitch). No harm in constructive reminders of what we want/expect from past promises but these things do take time - in many cases they prove impossible - not for the want of trying. The sh**e never got their new stadium but Trashton was in an ok location to redevelop, The Mem isn’t, it can’t be made to pay. A new stadium has to remain the dream, I hope I’m still around if it becomes reality. Till then I’m grateful we still have a club to support and that the last couple of seasons have been supported in bigger numbers - I first wrote better supported but I don’t think that’s strictly true - the atmosphere last season was good but this season at home we’ve been lacking a bit, even the Thatcher’s End has been a bit quiet at times and our West Side has been way too slow to join the singing. Let’s get behind the club properly and be supporters not just fans blowing air about. UTG!
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Post by aghast on Mar 8, 2023 0:21:24 GMT
Well the Mem appears to be fine to host evening games with up to 9,000 noisy fans every week or fortnight, so I'm not sure why the recent gaschat fact on here is that we couldn't put on other events.
'We just can't' seems to be the explanation.
Where there's a will, there's a way. We already do it.
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Post by francegas on Mar 8, 2023 9:46:53 GMT
Well the Mem appears to be fine to host evening games with up to 9,000 noisy fans every week or fortnight, so I'm not sure why the recent gaschat fact on here is that we couldn't put on other events. 'We just can't' seems to be the explanation. Where there's a will, there's a way. We already do it. Totally agree. What other events other than a few concerts a year is going to generate noise for the locals. Ashton Gate is hardly in the middle of no mans land with no residential housing near by yet they seem to manage it. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2023 10:41:10 GMT
Well the Mem appears to be fine to host evening games with up to 9,000 noisy fans every week or fortnight, so I'm not sure why the recent gaschat fact on here is that we couldn't put on other events. 'We just can't' seems to be the explanation. Where there's a will, there's a way. We already do it. Add to that The County Ground just down the road hosts open air concerts on a regular basis during the summer months so us not being able to host one due to the neighbours is an urban myth. |
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Post by oldmarket65 on Mar 8, 2023 10:48:53 GMT
This will be a positive short term project. It would mean 6_8 away team can bring big followings. Additionally : our home supporters could buy more seated tickets. We could of got 12500 sell outs v Muff Exeter maybe FGR.
We still need to play the BIG 5. Next week we should get pushing 10000 v Pompey . If they were allocated a full allocation it would probably mean close to a 12500 sell out. The project will pay for itself within a few years and make the ground acceptable.
I'm just hoping this project happens now. We can finally say after 60 years " we built a stand ".
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Post by gasonthemount on Mar 8, 2023 18:28:28 GMT
Stockport County are looking at building 2 new stands and extending an existing one to increase capacity to 20,000. Strange how other clubs look at redeveloping their existing grounds. It must be only BRFC who think differently. The last 27 years have, for the most part, been wasted in terms of improving the stadium.
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Post by Colyton Gas on Mar 8, 2023 18:52:52 GMT
Stockport County are looking at building 2 new stands and extending an existing one to increase capacity to 20,000. Strange how other clubs look at redeveloping their existing grounds. It must be only BRFC who think differently. The last 27 years have, for the most part, been wasted in terms of improving the stadium. Spot on.When you look at so many others improving their set ups at ALL levels why does our club simply stagnate with disabled facilities seriously below par let alone the lack of modern stands. Went to Muff last night.Great atmosphere but it wasn't the same as following the Gas.Their ground though and on-going improvements was heartening.Also when you take a disabled person to games everything is a lot easier at Muff or Exeter than the Mem. Maybe one day.......... |
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Post by yattongas on Mar 8, 2023 19:01:33 GMT
Stockport County are looking at building 2 new stands and extending an existing one to increase capacity to 20,000. Strange how other clubs look at redeveloping their existing grounds. It must be only BRFC who think differently. The last 27 years have, for the most part, been wasted in terms of improving the stadium. Which is precisely why we can’t afford to waste another season doing nothing . Let’s just get on and improve what we’ve got until we’ve got somewhere definite to move to. Improving the south stand will add capacity, which we’ll need if we’re to build our fanbase for our hopeful move to a new ground in the future. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 8, 2023 19:20:54 GMT
Well the Mem appears to be fine to host evening games with up to 9,000 noisy fans every week or fortnight, so I'm not sure why the recent gaschat fact on here is that we couldn't put on other events. 'We just can't' seems to be the explanation. Where there's a will, there's a way. We already do it. If we can't hold concerts at the Mem how was this one going to be held? www.bristolrovers.co.uk/news/2021/august/evening-of-queen-tour-memorial-stadium/I've no idea why it was subsequently cancelled. |
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Post by wider on Mar 8, 2023 20:18:32 GMT
Well the Mem appears to be fine to host evening games with up to 9,000 noisy fans every week or fortnight, so I'm not sure why the recent gaschat fact on here is that we couldn't put on other events. 'We just can't' seems to be the explanation. Where there's a will, there's a way. We already do it. If we can't hold concerts at the Mem how was this one going to be held? www.bristolrovers.co.uk/news/2021/august/evening-of-queen-tour-memorial-stadium/I've no idea why it was subsequently cancelled. Games are an “Established use”. We need permission for anything different and can’t seem to get it. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2023 20:34:42 GMT
Games are an “Established use”. We need permission for anything different and can’t seem to get it. When have we applied and had the application declined? |
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 8, 2023 20:49:17 GMT
Games are an “Established use”. We need permission for anything different and can’t seem to get it. Are you suggesting that we advertised tickets for sale for an unlicensed event? If we can't get permission then how do City & Glos managed to get it? Looking at Stockport County's ground it looks to be in the middle of housing developments and they are talking about building two new stands and increasing capacity to 20K, not sure why it's viable for them but apparently a non starter at the Mem. |
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Post by aghast on Mar 8, 2023 23:27:36 GMT
Games are an “Established use”. We need permission for anything different and can’t seem to get it. Are you suggesting that we advertised tickets for sale for an unlicensed event? If we can't get permission then how do City & Glos managed to get it? Looking at Stockport County's ground it looks to be in the middle of housing developments and they are talking about building two new stands and increasing capacity to 20K, not sure why it's viable for them but apparently a non starter at the Mem. Gashead1981 seems to have a hotline to the corridors of power and he tells us that they tell him it's just not happening. No matter that everyone else seems to have managed it. We're special. |
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 9, 2023 0:32:39 GMT
Are you suggesting that we advertised tickets for sale for an unlicensed event? If we can't get permission then how do City & Glos managed to get it? Looking at Stockport County's ground it looks to be in the middle of housing developments and they are talking about building two new stands and increasing capacity to 20K, not sure why it's viable for them but apparently a non starter at the Mem. Gashead1981 seems to have a hotline to the corridors of power and he tells us that they tell him it's just not happening. No matter that everyone else seems to have managed it. We're special. What a load of nonsense Aghast. No one has told me anything. Tom G himself has publicly said many times the Mem is a non starter. What I have continually said is when people come on here wanting us to bulldozer the Mem and rebuild every stand, relocate the pitch, etc etc it’s with absolutely no idea of cost in mind. I have demonstrated reasonably well using both Brentford’s ground and the AG redevelopment of a per seat cost to do including loss of revenue whilst we have do it. What I have said is how do we rebuild the Mem in that way, which would cost £60-70m minimum and make it not just pay off that debt but also generate revenue and income which can be fed into the club to be used for buying better players etc when the Mem would have many caveats for development which would restrict what can do to maximise the site. Football will not pay for it alone. I’ve got friends and family in the property game. Most of what I say is based on the facts, figures and numbers from them and nothing to do with the “corridors of power”. It’s a simple maths exercise anyone could do if they could be bothered to spend the time. Personally, I’d love a Mem redevelopment. |
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Post by bluestickgas1 on Mar 9, 2023 8:05:59 GMT
Theoretically the Mem could be redeveloped but as has been said before, the cost, the neighbourhood impact and the restrictions that would exist mean that it doesn’t make commercial sense.
People forget that the age of the stadium itself and the maintenance costs as well as Bristol being one of (I think 2nd behind London) most expensive cities to live in with ground costs, building costs and building restrictions as well as an unsupportive Council for projects such as these all bearing a significant influence on the ability to develop the Mem. Also there are financial benefits to new build over upgrading existing buildings.
You then add in infrastructure and road services to support a potential doubling of capacity (assume 10000 increase to 20000) which the club would a) have to bear the majority if not all the cost of and b) the housing development structures and locations mean it would require significant impact on traffic flow and people’s homes again mean this would be highly problematic and likely receive significant objection from residents
Finally noise pollution. We just have to look back at the objections raised and restrictions that were put on Sainsbury’s lorry deliveries when they were going to buy the Mem and build the supermarket. You then also get noise challenges from concerts (we already get some complaints from local residents about the bands in the fan zone), and potential light pollution from concerts which have excessive lighting etc. People say that we already host 9000 for midweek games but if we redeveloped the Mem you have to account for the increased noise from a maximum capacity crowd - 20000 is significantly more than 9000 and then again add in the increased traffic noise etc etc and an noise from concerts. This means again the local residents are likely to object (think about impact on house prices etc in the area) and if there is significant resistance to it, planning approval is highly unlikely.
As I said, the Mem could be redeveloped theoretically but the above means it’s unfeasible.
The new stand being temporary and not a full permanent build as well as it only being a small increase in capacity in the grand scheme of things means it doesn’t impact in the same ways mentioned above and therefore does make commercial sense
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Mar 9, 2023 8:48:40 GMT
Gashead1981 seems to have a hotline to the corridors of power and he tells us that they tell him it's just not happening. No matter that everyone else seems to have managed it. We're special. What a load of nonsense Aghast. No one has told me anything. Tom G himself has publicly said many times the Mem is a non starter. What I have continually said is when people come on here wanting us to bulldozer the Mem and rebuild every stand, relocate the pitch, etc etc it’s with absolutely no idea of cost in mind. I have demonstrated reasonably well using both Brentford’s ground and the AG redevelopment of a per seat cost to do including loss of revenue whilst we have do it. What I have said is how do we rebuild the Mem in that way, which would cost £60-70m minimum and make it not just pay off that debt but also generate revenue and income which can be fed into the club to be used for buying better players etc when the Mem would have many caveats for development which would restrict what can do to maximise the site. Football will not pay for it alone. I’ve got friends and family in the property game. Most of what I say is based on the facts, figures and numbers from them and nothing to do with the “corridors of power”. It’s a simple maths exercise anyone could do if they could be bothered to spend the time. Personally, I’d love a Mem redevelopment. The question supporters are asking is how come it’s viable for other clubs like Stockport, Wrexham, Argyle, Swindon, Orient, Exeter, Tranmere, Vale, Notts, Accrington, Flletwood, Morcambe, Blackpool, Preston etc etc to redevelop their old dilapidated grounds but it’s not viable for Bristol Rovers to do so too? Why is it just Rovers and it has to be said a lot of fans like you who claim we are an exception to every other club in the league when it comes to building or redevelopment of a stadium? What return on investment is it that we have to have but everyone else doesn’t? Our facilities are pathetic and embarrassing and as the current owner seems to have now passed by two opportunities to build a fantastic modern stadium elsewhere he should either get on with redevelopment of the Mem or find someone else who can do one or the other. That’s what Higgs thought he had done when he sold to him funnily enough! |
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