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Post by playtowin on Mar 9, 2023 10:10:17 GMT
Lets not forget the immediate question for the club was...How can we increase the capacity at the Mem for a number of years for the lowest cost.
The answer to that was simple ,replace a temporary stand with a bigger temporary stand.
Which is the plan.
Anything else will cost way too much if we intend on leaving the Mem within ten years.
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 9, 2023 10:41:29 GMT
What a load of nonsense Aghast. No one has told me anything. Tom G himself has publicly said many times the Mem is a non starter. What I have continually said is when people come on here wanting us to bulldozer the Mem and rebuild every stand, relocate the pitch, etc etc it’s with absolutely no idea of cost in mind. I have demonstrated reasonably well using both Brentford’s ground and the AG redevelopment of a per seat cost to do including loss of revenue whilst we have do it. What I have said is how do we rebuild the Mem in that way, which would cost £60-70m minimum and make it not just pay off that debt but also generate revenue and income which can be fed into the club to be used for buying better players etc when the Mem would have many caveats for development which would restrict what can do to maximise the site. Football will not pay for it alone. I’ve got friends and family in the property game. Most of what I say is based on the facts, figures and numbers from them and nothing to do with the “corridors of power”. It’s a simple maths exercise anyone could do if they could be bothered to spend the time. Personally, I’d love a Mem redevelopment. The question supporters are asking is how come it’s viable for other clubs like Stockport, Wrexham, Argyle, Swindon, Orient, Exeter, Tranmere, Vale, Notts, Accrington, Flletwood, Morcambe, Blackpool, Preston etc etc to redevelop their old dilapidated grounds but it’s not viable for Bristol Rovers to do so too? Why is it just Rovers and it has to be said a lot of fans like you who claim we are an exception to every other club in the league when it comes to building or redevelopment of a stadium? What return on investment is it that we have to have but everyone else doesn’t? Our facilities are pathetic and embarrassing and as the current owner seems to have now passed by two opportunities to build a fantastic modern stadium elsewhere he should either get on with redevelopment of the Mem or find someone else who can do one or the other. That’s what Higgs thought he had done when he sold to him funnily enough! Firstly I agree with you our facilities are pathetic. I also agree with you that we need a new ground and I also agree with you that passing up on the UWE was a big mistake. No one can comment on the FM because we really don’t know what is happening with that development. That doesn’t mean that Wael hasn’t the desire to sort us a ground. His track record demonstrates that he is an honourable chap who's already proceeded with building a training facility, something we haven't had in years. What we shouldn't do though is think the Mem is just as development friendly as the other clubs you have just mentioned. For example, what's suitable for Accrington, Morecambe and Fleetwood would not suit us at all. Their average attendances are between 2700-3800 per game. Them having an 8k seater stadium would feel huge and we need at least double that and then some. So you are comparing apples with oranges there. Exeter are doing ground improvements but its nothing like what we would want or need and is very limited in what they can do on that site. Interestingly I've just looked at Edgely Park to see what's there currently, what surrounds it and its links into and out of Stockport, because its one ground I've not been to. That plot is nothing like the Mem plot for starters. They only have a few houses towards one side of the stadium which is separated by what looks like a tram link. Behind their big existing stand is a reservoir and open community space sports/recreation land with a lake/reservoir. There is literally nothing that would prevent building something there which would enhance that community which has nothing like the stumbling blocks the Mem has. Onto Vale Park which actually reminds me of a 1990s Ashton Gate and Home Park at Plymouth before their development I'ts already mostly seated with a 19k capacity. Surrounded by Burslem Park and Light industrial estate to one side it has no housing within its immediate vicinity that would cause any developmental problems with good links in and out of the ground. A very easy stand by stand development could be done incorporating lots of mixed use commercial/industrial opportunity. Meadow Park, The County Ground, Prenton Park and Home Park is the same as vale park for location, what's already on it and what it can incorporate in its build and most of these grounds are only in need of one stand or 2. These clubs had already invested in rebuilding stadia post Hillsborough disaster when we weren't even playing in our own city. The only one you could mention that is similar to our circumstances is Brisbane Road, but London has a totally different mindset to planning than the self entitled, tofu eating, green nimbys that have infiltrated our fair city and for some reason, people keep voting for to elect them onto councils. But again, Brisbane Road is already a much better stadium and all seated and probably only needs a piecemeal development, not a full one like we do. The Mem would've been a great development if the Rugger hadn't sold off the training pitches and built houses, we could have done whatever we wanted then and very easily including an access road straight out onto Filton Ave. I'd say there are very few clubs actually in our position with a ground like ours, in a development adverse city, with a development adverse set of councils but looking at what others have and then demanding we do something similar without looking at the reasons why we can't with a completely objective mind rather than a subjective one is completely counter productive. If you adjust that mindset just slightly you'll start to understand what we are really up against. What I think we do need and certainly within the next 6 months is a detailed plan for the club about how we are going to approach this situation and give us a realistic timescale for a new stadium. |
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Post by bluestickgas1 on Mar 9, 2023 10:54:03 GMT
What a load of nonsense Aghast. No one has told me anything. Tom G himself has publicly said many times the Mem is a non starter. What I have continually said is when people come on here wanting us to bulldozer the Mem and rebuild every stand, relocate the pitch, etc etc it’s with absolutely no idea of cost in mind. I have demonstrated reasonably well using both Brentford’s ground and the AG redevelopment of a per seat cost to do including loss of revenue whilst we have do it. What I have said is how do we rebuild the Mem in that way, which would cost £60-70m minimum and make it not just pay off that debt but also generate revenue and income which can be fed into the club to be used for buying better players etc when the Mem would have many caveats for development which would restrict what can do to maximise the site. Football will not pay for it alone. I’ve got friends and family in the property game. Most of what I say is based on the facts, figures and numbers from them and nothing to do with the “corridors of power”. It’s a simple maths exercise anyone could do if they could be bothered to spend the time. Personally, I’d love a Mem redevelopment. The question supporters are asking is how come it’s viable for other clubs like Stockport, Wrexham, Argyle, Swindon, Orient, Exeter, Tranmere, Vale, Notts, Accrington, Flletwood, Morcambe, Blackpool, Preston etc etc to redevelop their old dilapidated grounds but it’s not viable for Bristol Rovers to do so too? Why is it just Rovers and it has to be said a lot of fans like you who claim we are an exception to every other club in the league when it comes to building or redevelopment of a stadium? What return on investment is it that we have to have but everyone else doesn’t? Our facilities are pathetic and embarrassing and as the current owner seems to have now passed by two opportunities to build a fantastic modern stadium elsewhere he should either get on with redevelopment of the Mem or find someone else who can do one or the other. That’s what Higgs thought he had done when he sold to him funnily enough! See my post - you can’t directly compare our position with those other clubs as the locations and councils are different, the stadia requirements and footprints are vastly different, the council appetite is different, the infrastructure is different…. If it was easy to redevelop the Mem with the right commercial return etc , don’t we think that Wael would do it? He certainly doesn’t seem to be withholding funding etc? We all want better facilities and an improved experience and revenue stream for the club but I don’t think people fully appreciate just how difficult it is in Bristol/South Glos |
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Post by Colyton Gas on Mar 9, 2023 11:07:42 GMT
Whatever the reason for our stagnation,lack of any improvements,disabled facilities way below an acceptable standard etc ,the club needs to tell us even if it's to say we are stuck here in a time warp for at least another ten years but we need to know what the situation is be it Fruit Market,Mem ,Ground sharing or whatever.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2023 11:21:35 GMT
The question supporters are asking is how come it’s viable for other clubs like Stockport, Wrexham, Argyle, Swindon, Orient, Exeter, Tranmere, Vale, Notts, Accrington, Flletwood, Morcambe, Blackpool, Preston etc etc to redevelop their old dilapidated grounds but it’s not viable for Bristol Rovers to do so too? Why is it just Rovers and it has to be said a lot of fans like you who claim we are an exception to every other club in the league when it comes to building or redevelopment of a stadium? What return on investment is it that we have to have but everyone else doesn’t? Our facilities are pathetic and embarrassing and as the current owner seems to have now passed by two opportunities to build a fantastic modern stadium elsewhere he should either get on with redevelopment of the Mem or find someone else who can do one or the other. That’s what Higgs thought he had done when he sold to him funnily enough! I also agree with you that we need a new ground and I also agree with you that passing up on the UWE was a big mistake. That's an interesting comment. Do you think Wael would have gone ahead with UWE if the choice was his and his alone at the time? |
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 9, 2023 11:56:42 GMT
I also agree with you that we need a new ground and I also agree with you that passing up on the UWE was a big mistake. That's an interesting comment. Do you think Wael would have gone ahead with UWE if the choice was his and his alone at the time? Perhaps. That's a question for Wael isn't it and one no one has been allowed to ask him to answer publicly. From my perspective, from everything I know and have been told about the UWE development, I can only see it as what was a golden opportunity for us, but I don't know what the ALQs wanted out of it for them to feel it was a bad deal. However, had we built it within the 5 years of their takeover we would already be in and reaping the benefits wouldn't we? Staying at the Mem for 15 years post takeover losing millions a season is also a bad deal isn't it? It's all ifs and buts. IMO the real shame lies in the JR process, the decisions surrounding that and how nimby groups can exert that much power to stop and take apart multi million pound developments. I still can't help but think that there was a higher power influencing the outcome of the review as if we had won, it would have set a precedent for other sites where Sainsbury's had done similar which would have cost them upwards of £800m in compensation across 9-10 developments. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2023 12:08:05 GMT
That's an interesting comment. Do you think Wael would have gone ahead with UWE if the choice was his and his alone at the time? Perhaps. That's a question for Wael isn't it and one no one has been allowed to ask him to answer publicly. From my perspective, from everything I know and have been told about the UWE development, I can only see it as what was a golden opportunity for us, but I don't know what the ALQs wanted out of it for them to feel it was a bad deal. However, had we built it within the 5 years of their takeover we would already be in and reaping the benefits wouldn't we? Staying at the Mem for 15 years post takeover losing millions a season is also a bad deal isn't it? It's all ifs and buts. IMO the real shame lies in the JR process, the decisions surrounding that and how nimby groups can exert that much power to stop and take apart multi million pound developments. I still can't help but think that there was a higher power influencing the outcome of the review as if we had won, it would have set a precedent for other sites where Sainsbury's had done similar which would have cost them upwards of £800m in compensation across 9-10 developments. Thanks for the first line. As for the events before Wael taking over, yes we all have opinions on that one but we also had a chairman who wouldn't listen to people. |
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Post by Gaswood on Mar 9, 2023 12:23:16 GMT
So… the New South and South West stand then…
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Post by baggins on Mar 9, 2023 12:43:41 GMT
So… the New South and South West stand then… Hopefully it'll have blue seats. |
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Post by eric on Mar 9, 2023 12:58:28 GMT
Whatever the reason for our stagnation,lack of any improvements,disabled facilities way below an acceptable standard etc ,the club needs to tell us even if it's to say we are stuck here in a time warp for at least another ten years but we need to know what the situation is be it Fruit Market,Mem ,Ground sharing or whatever. It’s that complete unknown and an unwillingness from the club to update us fans on the long term future plans that is making me think twice about whether to renew my season ticket. Even if they hold their hands up and say despite their best efforts we are no closer than before of securing a new home or that a complete overhaul of the Mem is not viable - we just need to know and not be treated as nobodies. |
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Post by yattongas on Mar 9, 2023 13:00:27 GMT
Whatever the reason for our stagnation,lack of any improvements,disabled facilities way below an acceptable standard etc ,the club needs to tell us even if it's to say we are stuck here in a time warp for at least another ten years but we need to know what the situation is be it Fruit Market,Mem ,Ground sharing or whatever. It’s that complete unknown and an unwillingness from the club to update us fans on the long term future plans that is making me think twice about whether to renew my season ticket. Even if they hold their hands up and say despite their best efforts we are no closer than before of securing a new home or that a complete overhaul of the Mem is not viable - we just need to know and not be treated as nobodies. 100% agree. |
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Post by heartofgas on Mar 9, 2023 13:20:32 GMT
What gets me is we have had since the Eastville days to try and sort a new stadium, so 40 years. We have never been as close as the UWE. What is surprising is there is no plan B. When we sold off half of the car park for houses why didn't we use that to help build a stand. We could build a new east stand with 8000 seats. If we would have done this 20 years ago it would have more than paid for itself by now, with the added bonus we'd actually have a nicer environment to watch the football. It could be another 20 years before we get another UWE situation. Even if it costs £10M then lets get a proper stand built. I think the long term future has to be a new stadium but that has to be at least 10 years away.
At the moment it seems there is no plan or strategy. even with the south stand it feels it is something that was said as an off the cuff remark. There doesn't seem to be any strategy behind it.
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Post by heartofgas on Mar 9, 2023 13:25:27 GMT
The other thing i find surprising is Wael's family are bankers and involved in site developments with hotels etc. You would think this would give some expertise in getting these things done. It's rather like when you watch the apprentice and someone says they have expertise in something then they project manage a task and are actually shocking and know very little. I have nothing against Wael by the way, I think he has been fantastic for the club but he has failed to deliver, so far, on what is the main thing holding the club back.
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Post by albaron on Mar 9, 2023 13:29:54 GMT
What gets me is we have had since the Eastville days to try and sort a new stadium, so 40 years. We have never been as close as the UWE. What is surprising is there is no plan B. When we sold off half of the car park for houses why didn't we use that to help build a stand. We could build a new east stand with 8000 seats. If we would have done this 20 years ago it would have more than paid for itself by now, with the added bonus we'd actually have a nicer environment to watch the football. It could be another 20 years before we get another UWE situation. Even if it costs £10M then lets get a proper stand built. I think the long term future has to be a new stadium but that has to be at least 10 years away. At the moment it seems there is no plan or strategy. even with the south stand it feels it is something that was said as an off the cuff remark. There doesn't seem to be any strategy behind it. This post sums up my feelings exactly. I am 70 this year and don't think I will see a new South Stand let alone a new ground in my lifetime. But the days of rolling up to a delapitated Mem are getting shorter and shorter. |
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Post by heartofgas on Mar 9, 2023 13:38:01 GMT
What gets me is we have had since the Eastville days to try and sort a new stadium, so 40 years. We have never been as close as the UWE. What is surprising is there is no plan B. When we sold off half of the car park for houses why didn't we use that to help build a stand. We could build a new east stand with 8000 seats. If we would have done this 20 years ago it would have more than paid for itself by now, with the added bonus we'd actually have a nicer environment to watch the football. It could be another 20 years before we get another UWE situation. Even if it costs £10M then lets get a proper stand built. I think the long term future has to be a new stadium but that has to be at least 10 years away. At the moment it seems there is no plan or strategy. even with the south stand it feels it is something that was said as an off the cuff remark. There doesn't seem to be any strategy behind it. This post sums up my feelings exactly. I am 70 this year and don't think I will see a new South Stand let alone a new ground in my lifetime. But the days of rolling up to a delapitated Mem are getting shorter and shorter. I was 14 when we left Eastville. I am ever the optimist so at the time i Thought by the time I'm an adult the club will have sorted a stadium out. I now have kids of my own who are reaching adulthood. I do wonder if we will have anything in my lifetime too. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2023 13:49:33 GMT
What gets me is we have had since the Eastville days to try and sort a new stadium, so 40 years. We have never been as close as the UWE. What is surprising is there is no plan B. When we sold off half of the car park for houses why didn't we use that to help build a stand. We could build a new east stand with 8000 seats. If we would have done this 20 years ago it would have more than paid for itself by now, with the added bonus we'd actually have a nicer environment to watch the football. It could be another 20 years before we get another UWE situation. Even if it costs £10M then lets get a proper stand built. I think the long term future has to be a new stadium but that has to be at least 10 years away. At the moment it seems there is no plan or strategy. even with the south stand it feels it is something that was said as an off the cuff remark. There doesn't seem to be any strategy behind it. The club received £500k for the car park and you might be surprised to know that every penny was spent on stadium improvements, it had to be as the money was ring fenced as part of the deal only to be used for stadium improvements and controlled by the council. A couple of its uses were the new floodlights and the purchase of the South Stand Tent which was being leased. The deal was struck by the rugby club long before Rovers became owners. |
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Post by heartofgas on Mar 9, 2023 13:56:02 GMT
What gets me is we have had since the Eastville days to try and sort a new stadium, so 40 years. We have never been as close as the UWE. What is surprising is there is no plan B. When we sold off half of the car park for houses why didn't we use that to help build a stand. We could build a new east stand with 8000 seats. If we would have done this 20 years ago it would have more than paid for itself by now, with the added bonus we'd actually have a nicer environment to watch the football. It could be another 20 years before we get another UWE situation. Even if it costs £10M then lets get a proper stand built. I think the long term future has to be a new stadium but that has to be at least 10 years away. At the moment it seems there is no plan or strategy. even with the south stand it feels it is something that was said as an off the cuff remark. There doesn't seem to be any strategy behind it. The club received £500k for the car park and you might be surprised to know that every penny was spent on stadium improvements, it had to be as the money was ring fenced as part of the deal only to be used for stadium improvements and controlled by the council. A couple of its uses were the new floodlights and the purchase of the South Stand Tent which was being leased. The deal was struck by the rugby club long before Rovers became owners. I am surprised, didn't realise it was the rugby club that sold it.. How did they only get £0.5M for the land?? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2023 13:57:45 GMT
The club received £500k for the car park and you might be surprised to know that every penny was spent on stadium improvements, it had to be as the money was ring fenced as part of the deal only to be used for stadium improvements and controlled by the council. A couple of its uses were the new floodlights and the purchase of the South Stand Tent which was being leased. The deal was struck by the rugby club long before Rovers became owners. I am surprised, didn't realise it was the rugby club that sold it.. How did they only get £0.5M for the land?? The builders built the centenary stand for the rugby without charge in exchange for an option to purchase the land for a fixed price of £500k within a certain time period. They took up that option with a few days to spare. |
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Post by baggins on Mar 9, 2023 14:11:39 GMT
I am surprised, didn't realise it was the rugby club that sold it.. How did they only get £0.5M for the land?? The builders built the centenary stand for the rugby without charge in exchange for an option to purchase the land for a fixed price of £500k within a certain time period. They took up that option with a few days to spare. Wasn't there something to do with taking on their debt? |
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 9, 2023 14:11:57 GMT
Bristol (Rugby) were in an awful mess financially, ran poorly and had no concept of forward planning. I mean the deal they did with us, whilst we were the beneficiaries, was an utter madness really and almost guaranteed their own execution.
Holmes tells it exactly how it is. We were nothing to do with the carpark sale or west stand build. It was the most short cited deal anyone could ever put together.
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