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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 9, 2023 14:16:27 GMT
The other thing i find surprising is Wael's family are bankers and involved in site developments with hotels etc. You would think this would give some expertise in getting these things done. It's rather like when you watch the apprentice and someone says they have expertise in something then they project manage a task and are actually shocking and know very little. I have nothing against Wael by the way, I think he has been fantastic for the club but he has failed to deliver, so far, on what is the main thing holding the club back. Banking equates to many specialist areas of finance but I'm not aware that automatically qualifies you for commercial property development. You would certainly need a partner to be appointed to oversee the project. The problem is we dont really have a project do we. All we have is a possibility of land at the FM, but its so tied up in other ventures and reliant on others that it'll take years to come off and personally I dont think it will. That said I have no evidence it wont and it may be worth waiting for.
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Post by heartofgas on Mar 9, 2023 14:17:18 GMT
Bristol (Rugby) were in an awful mess financially, ran poorly and had no concept of forward planning. I mean the deal they did with us, whilst we were the beneficiaries, was an utter madness really and almost guaranteed their own execution. Holmes tells it exactly how it is. We were nothing to do with the carpark sale or west stand build. It was the most short cited deal anyone could ever put together. The housing developers must have been laughing all the way to the bank
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Post by heartofgas on Mar 9, 2023 14:18:48 GMT
The other thing i find surprising is Wael's family are bankers and involved in site developments with hotels etc. You would think this would give some expertise in getting these things done. It's rather like when you watch the apprentice and someone says they have expertise in something then they project manage a task and are actually shocking and know very little. I have nothing against Wael by the way, I think he has been fantastic for the club but he has failed to deliver, so far, on what is the main thing holding the club back. Banking equates to many specialist areas of finance but I'm not aware that automatically qualifies you for commercial property development. You would certainly need a partner to be appointed to oversee the project. The problem is we dont really have a project do we. All we have is a possibility of land at the FM, but its so tied up in other ventures and reliant on others that it'll take years to come off and personally I dont think it will. That said I have no evidence it wont and it may be worth waiting for. we don't even have an artists impression to fantasise over😂😂
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Post by heartofgas on Mar 9, 2023 14:20:41 GMT
The other thing i find surprising is Wael's family are bankers and involved in site developments with hotels etc. You would think this would give some expertise in getting these things done. It's rather like when you watch the apprentice and someone says they have expertise in something then they project manage a task and are actually shocking and know very little. I have nothing against Wael by the way, I think he has been fantastic for the club but he has failed to deliver, so far, on what is the main thing holding the club back. Banking equates to many specialist areas of finance but I'm not aware that automatically qualifies you for commercial property development. You would certainly need a partner to be appointed to oversee the project. The problem is we dont really have a project do we. All we have is a possibility of land at the FM, but its so tied up in other ventures and reliant on others that it'll take years to come off and personally I dont think it will. That said I have no evidence it wont and it may be worth waiting for. I thought they were experts in property development for hotels? Part of that must involve buying land and relevant issues around a development.
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Post by ifollowgas on Mar 9, 2023 14:22:16 GMT
I also agree with you that we need a new ground and I also agree with you that passing up on the UWE was a big mistake. That's an interesting comment. Do you think Wael would have gone ahead with UWE if the choice was his and his alone at the time? The Al Qadi family wouldn't spend the capital on a property/business they could not easily sell on, should Wael lose interest. The 'UWE Stadium not right for the club' was the excuse surprisingly still accepted by many supporters. Result is, we have a football club permanently embedded in the lower leagues with no likelihood of the investment required to build a modern stadium.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2023 14:22:33 GMT
Bristol (Rugby) were in an awful mess financially, ran poorly and had no concept of forward planning. I mean the deal they did with us, whilst we were the beneficiaries, was an utter madness really and almost guaranteed their own execution. Holmes tells it exactly how it is. We were nothing to do with the carpark sale or west stand build. It was the most short cited deal anyone could ever put together. The housing developers must have been laughing all the way to the bank We did get one gain from them. When they were half way through building the wall to divide the car park from the development site it was noticed that they were building it slightly out of line. When they had finished building it they were advised of their error and told to rebuild it in the correct place. They settled on giving the club £100k compensation.
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Post by baggins on Mar 9, 2023 14:22:34 GMT
Banking equates to many specialist areas of finance but I'm not aware that automatically qualifies you for commercial property development. You would certainly need a partner to be appointed to oversee the project. The problem is we dont really have a project do we. All we have is a possibility of land at the FM, but its so tied up in other ventures and reliant on others that it'll take years to come off and personally I dont think it will. That said I have no evidence it wont and it may be worth waiting for. I thought they were experts in property development for hotels? Part of that must involve buying land and relevant issues around a development. In Bristol?
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 9, 2023 14:25:03 GMT
Bristol (Rugby) were in an awful mess financially, ran poorly and had no concept of forward planning. I mean the deal they did with us, whilst we were the beneficiaries, was an utter madness really and almost guaranteed their own execution. Holmes tells it exactly how it is. We were nothing to do with the carpark sale or west stand build. It was the most short cited deal anyone could ever put together. The housing developers must have been laughing all the way to the bank The West Stand must have cost about £1m to build so they got a whole estates worth for £1.5m. So yes, they must have peed their pants with excitement.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2023 14:26:08 GMT
The housing developers must have been laughing all the way to the bank The West Stand must have cost about £1m to build so they got a whole estates worth for £1.5m. So yes, they must have peed their pants with excitement. The car park deal was for the Centenary Stand not the West Stand.
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Post by baggins on Mar 9, 2023 14:26:21 GMT
That's an interesting comment. Do you think Wael would have gone ahead with UWE if the choice was his and his alone at the time? The Al Qadi family wouldn't spend the capital on a property/business they could not easily sell on, should Wael lose interest. The 'UWE Stadium not right for the club' was the excuse surprisingly still accepted by many supporters.  Result is, we have a football club permanently embedded in the lower leagues with no likelihood of the investment required to build a modern stadium. The UWE wasn't right for us otherwise we'd be in there by now. Permanently embedded in the lower leagues. We were promoted last Season.
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Post by heartofgas on Mar 9, 2023 14:29:29 GMT
That's an interesting comment. Do you think Wael would have gone ahead with UWE if the choice was his and his alone at the time? The Al Qadi family wouldn't spend the capital on a property/business they could not easily sell on, should Wael lose interest. The 'UWE Stadium not right for the club' was the excuse surprisingly still accepted by many supporters. Result is, we have a football club permanently embedded in the lower leagues with no likelihood of the investment required to build a modern stadium. What I also find surprising about it is they terminated the deal without having an alternative. When they knew it was looking like the UWE project wouldn't work for them you would have thought they would have started looking for an alternate option whilst still negotiating with the UWE and not ruled that out until we had another option. Unbelievable as it seems, I think there must have been some mis-understanding between the family and the old board. The stadium development must have been the cherry the family were after and as soon as the reality of that deal became apparent to them they wanted out. I guess that's where we have to be very grateful that Wael had taken the club to heart (no doubt helped by Lee Brown's promotion winner, how important that goal was).
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 9, 2023 14:44:23 GMT
The West Stand must have cost about £1m to build so they got a whole estates worth for £1.5m. So yes, they must have peed their pants with excitement. The car park deal was for the Centenary Stand not the West Stand. Correct, I meant to write East, which was constructed in 1988 I think?
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 9, 2023 14:52:47 GMT
The Al Qadi family wouldn't spend the capital on a property/business they could not easily sell on, should Wael lose interest. The 'UWE Stadium not right for the club' was the excuse surprisingly still accepted by many supporters. Result is, we have a football club permanently embedded in the lower leagues with no likelihood of the investment required to build a modern stadium. What I also find surprising about it is they terminated the deal without having an alternative. When they knew it was looking like the UWE project wouldn't work for them you would have thought they would have started looking for an alternate option whilst still negotiating with the UWE and not ruled that out until we had another option. Unbelievable as it seems, I think there must have been some mis-understanding between the family and the old board. The stadium development must have been the cherry the family were after and as soon as the reality of that deal became apparent to them they wanted out. I guess that's where we have to be very grateful that Wael had taken the club to heart (no doubt helped by Lee Brown's promotion winner, how important that goal was). Well some of it seems ill feted right from the start. Originally Ed Ware and Nick Higgs were going to stay on the board in a non-executive capacity to see the UWE deal over the line. 2 hours before the announcement Hamer informed them both that that part of the deal was off and they wanted to handle it. When it came to the break with UWE when it announced it was off, it actually went back to the negotiating table with Ed Ware being the centre of trying to make peace with the both sides, redrawing a few of the plans to accomodate what the family wanted to his own personal cost, but there couldnt be a meeting of minds. At the time we had Hamer and Hani working together and that self important blowfish never had the interests of our club at heart, only his own position within it and he was a major instigator in influencing the decision of where and how Hani ran things. Thats why when I holmes asked me if it had been solely Waels decision behind the UWE would he have built it and I think perhaps there would have been, simply because his track record since taking complete control is night and day to when he had to collaborate with his dad and brother with a total dickhead chairman in the middle of it all serving only his own interests.
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Post by baggins on Mar 9, 2023 14:57:11 GMT
We've got a crap Stadium, it's falling apart, but in Lg1, holding our own after promotion, it's entertaining for 90 minutes, I'll leave the Stadium issues to someone far wealthier than me. Just glad we've got a Club to support, that'll do me.
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 9, 2023 15:10:38 GMT
We've got a crap Stadium, it's falling apart, but in Lg1, holding our own after promotion, it's entertaining for 90 minutes, I'll leave the Stadium issues to someone far wealthier than me. Just glad we've got a Club to support, that'll do me. Quite. Just because Wael hasnt gotten us a stadium yet, doesnt mean he wont or isnt going to and we should still show our gratitude for what he has done and is doing for us.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2023 15:13:09 GMT
The car park deal was for the Centenary Stand not the West Stand. Correct, I meant to write East, which was constructed in 1988 I think? Correct, Bristol Rugby Clubs centenary hence the original name of the stand.
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Mar 9, 2023 15:44:26 GMT
That's an interesting comment. Do you think Wael would have gone ahead with UWE if the choice was his and his alone at the time? The Al Qadi family wouldn't spend the capital on a property/business they could not easily sell on, should Wael lose interest. The 'UWE Stadium not right for the club' was the excuse surprisingly still accepted by many supporters. Result is, we have a football club permanently embedded in the lower leagues with no likelihood of the investment required to build a modern stadium. Exactly this. Wael has got off very lightly because too many of our fans cannot get that what is right for the owner doesn't necessarily correlate with what is right for the club!
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Post by heartofgas on Mar 9, 2023 15:49:43 GMT
We've got a crap Stadium, it's falling apart, but in Lg1, holding our own after promotion, it's entertaining for 90 minutes, I'll leave the Stadium issues to someone far wealthier than me. Just glad we've got a Club to support, that'll do me. Quite. Just because Wael hasnt gotten us a stadium yet, doesnt mean he wont or isnt going to and we should still show our gratitude for what he has done and is doing for us. I think you can be grateful for what he's done but also critical on the stadium. The attitude that we should be grateful to have a club is why we have stagnated for the last 40 years. Every club is on the brink and needs to be grateful to their owners. We are no different but this lack of ambition and unproven faith that Wael will sort something out will mean we will continue to stagnate. He has had seven years and we have no plan, no stadium in the pipeline. If we want the best for rovers us fans should be pushing Wael to come up with a strategy/plan. I'm sure if it is done in a constructive way then Wael would understand where fans are coming from If we stick with the mustn't grumble mentality then we really aren't pushing the club on My dream would be for Rovers to get to the prem but without serious ambition this won't happen. I dont want my footballing lot to be us moving between L1 and L2 with the odd gem of a footballer to watch. And I would expect the owner of the club to have at least my level of ambition.
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 9, 2023 16:18:31 GMT
Quite. Just because Wael hasnt gotten us a stadium yet, doesnt mean he wont or isnt going to and we should still show our gratitude for what he has done and is doing for us. I think you can be grateful for what he's done but also critical on the stadium. The attitude that we should be grateful to have a club is why we have stagnated for the last 40 years. Every club is on the brink and needs to be grateful to their owners. We are no different but this lack of ambition and unproven faith that Wael will sort something out will mean we will continue to stagnate. He has had seven years and we have no plan, no stadium in the pipeline. If we want the best for rovers us fans should be pushing Wael to come up with a strategy/plan. I'm sure if it is done in a constructive way then Wael would understand where fans are coming from If we stick with the mustn't grumble mentality then we really aren't pushing the club on My dream would be for Rovers to get to the prem but without serious ambition this won't happen. I dont want my footballing lot to be us moving between L1 and L2 with the odd gem of a footballer to watch. And I would expect the owner of the club to have at least my level of ambition. I see it slightly differently. You cannot blame Wael for the last 40 years and tarr him with the same brush. He took over a club in desperate need of more than a stadium, the whole place needed going over and infrastructure put in place. We had a false start when ultimately Hani was in charge, whilst Wael was President, he wasn’t fully in charge, so we must really judge him on his accomplishments. He’s been in charge technically for 4 years since he acquired his brothers and fathers shareholding giving him control. In those 4 years we’ve been relegated and promoted, built a training facility. Professionalised the playing side to a standard worthy of championship level staffing. Increased our commercial revenue, reduced our operating loses and done all of that through a pandemic where he bankrolled us for 2 years. I think he’s doing ok. It’s also why I’m grateful to him and everyone else should be too.
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Post by yattongas on Mar 9, 2023 16:37:29 GMT
I think you can be grateful for what he's done but also critical on the stadium. The attitude that we should be grateful to have a club is why we have stagnated for the last 40 years. Every club is on the brink and needs to be grateful to their owners. We are no different but this lack of ambition and unproven faith that Wael will sort something out will mean we will continue to stagnate. He has had seven years and we have no plan, no stadium in the pipeline. If we want the best for rovers us fans should be pushing Wael to come up with a strategy/plan. I'm sure if it is done in a constructive way then Wael would understand where fans are coming from If we stick with the mustn't grumble mentality then we really aren't pushing the club on My dream would be for Rovers to get to the prem but without serious ambition this won't happen. I dont want my footballing lot to be us moving between L1 and L2 with the odd gem of a footballer to watch. And I would expect the owner of the club to have at least my level of ambition. I see it slightly differently. You cannot blame Wael for the last 40 years and tarr him with the same brush. He took over a club in desperate need of more than a stadium, the whole place needed going over and infrastructure put in place. We had a false start when ultimately Hani was in charge, whilst Wael was President, he wasn’t fully in charge, so we must really judge him on his accomplishments. He’s been in charge technically for 4 years since he acquired his brothers and fathers shareholding giving him control. In those 4 years we’ve been relegated and promoted, built a training facility. Professionalised the playing side to a standard worthy of championship level staffing. Increased our commercial revenue, reduced our operating loses and done all of that through a pandemic where he bankrolled us for 2 years. I think he’s doing ok. It’s also why I’m grateful to him and everyone else should be too. Has he reduced our operating losses ? I thought we were on target for a £3m deficit again this season .
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