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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 17, 2023 14:05:42 GMT
Surely whatever the Mem costs to rebuild the FM would cost exactly the same to build, apart from the costs of clearing both sites, so if it comes down to just RoI why's the FM going to generate that much more, it's not like there'll be no competition for conferences etc. You do wonder if it's RoI or it's the only option where we can sell the Mem for £m's then just lease the FM. How do Liverpool make Anfield pay when it's built in the middle of houses? Firstly, you cant compare us to Liverpool and Anfield when you have £100m of Prem money + Champs league + already a 45k seater stadium + Brand Liverpool which brings in global revenue per annum. Its the very reason above we need to look at maximising stadium use locally or having a multipurpose site where youll be able to draw an income from mixed industrial use opportunity which will be unrestricted. The mem will come with fairly heavy restrictions, especially with noise meaning we wont be able to maximise what AG do in the close season, for example. Its unlikely we will own the freehold the FM would be built on, there would probably be some 1000 year lease given so we wouldnt have to spend £60m on land. The ground rent cost will be absorbed into any additional commercial rental opportunity we can make on whatever else we can build on the site. Meaning that if we sell the mem for £35-40m, which is what that plot is worth I am told for housing, then you only have to find £20-30m to build a completely multi-use stadium with no restrictions and absolute carte blanche to build whatever infrastructure you want to ROI the site. Sounds like Eastville MK2, let's give away a ground we own and just lease one, as what could possibly go wrong! I do find it hard to believe anybody finds leasing a ground acceptable, given our history with grounds. There's no way we'll get Sainsbury's type money now for just residential land at the Mem. |
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Post by playtowin on Feb 17, 2023 14:44:32 GMT
If the aim is to improve facilities whilst also increasing capacity that opens a few options. As the open terrace is seen as sub standard accommodation for fans losing some of it may be a good thing. So moving the pitch towards the north terrace by 2 metres is a definite option. If the rake of the new stand is steeper then an extra few rows might be added. The key will be if the whole width of the pitch can be used even if it tapers to less rows of seats. Having the seated stand as the only away places available allows more home standing on the East terrace. Home seating at the south would therefore be available on a match by match basis depending on away take up. We could push the capacity upto the 10,000 mark. Which is still too low but better than what it currently is. I could be wrong but I believe the capacity is now 10000. They had 9k v FGR : 9.2k v Muff 9.7k v cheltenham but they were short by 300-400 ( C.F.C). To justify spending quite a bit of money on a L shaped stand must mean an increase to around 11000 - 11500 otherwise its not worth it. To improve the matchday experience might be enough. Like putting a roof on the north terrace did. |
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Post by womble on Feb 17, 2023 15:01:43 GMT
Firstly, you cant compare us to Liverpool and Anfield when you have £100m of Prem money + Champs league + already a 45k seater stadium + Brand Liverpool which brings in global revenue per annum. Its the very reason above we need to look at maximising stadium use locally or having a multipurpose site where youll be able to draw an income from mixed industrial use opportunity which will be unrestricted. The mem will come with fairly heavy restrictions, especially with noise meaning we wont be able to maximise what AG do in the close season, for example. It’s unlikely we will own the freehold the FM would be built on, there would probably be some 1000 year lease given so we wouldnt have to spend £60m on land. The ground rent cost will be absorbed into any additional commercial rental opportunity we can make on whatever else we can build on the site. Meaning that if we sell the mem for £35-40m, which is what that plot is worth I am told for housing, then you only have to find £20-30m to build a completely multi-use stadium with no restrictions and absolute carte blanche to build whatever infrastructure you want to ROI the site. 35-45 million? That seems a bit high to me . I’d guess more like 15-20 million . I’ll caveat this by admitting I know naff all ! Government figures for 2019 suggest that land in Bristol is worth around £1.3m an acre, so gashead1981 may well be in the right ballpark. |
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Post by gashead1981 on Feb 17, 2023 15:08:00 GMT
Firstly, you cant compare us to Liverpool and Anfield when you have £100m of Prem money + Champs league + already a 45k seater stadium + Brand Liverpool which brings in global revenue per annum. Its the very reason above we need to look at maximising stadium use locally or having a multipurpose site where youll be able to draw an income from mixed industrial use opportunity which will be unrestricted. The mem will come with fairly heavy restrictions, especially with noise meaning we wont be able to maximise what AG do in the close season, for example. Its unlikely we will own the freehold the FM would be built on, there would probably be some 1000 year lease given so we wouldnt have to spend £60m on land. The ground rent cost will be absorbed into any additional commercial rental opportunity we can make on whatever else we can build on the site. Meaning that if we sell the mem for £35-40m, which is what that plot is worth I am told for housing, then you only have to find £20-30m to build a completely multi-use stadium with no restrictions and absolute carte blanche to build whatever infrastructure you want to ROI the site. Sounds like Eastville MK2, let's give away a ground we own and just lease one, as what could possibly go wrong! I do find it hard to believe anybody finds leasing a ground acceptable, given our history with grounds. There's no way we'll get Sainsbury's type money now for just residential land at the Mem. Topper, I didnt say lease the stadium, but the land to which it sits on. UWE would have been a similar arrangement. Dont confuse that as leasing a whole property as they arent the same thing. |
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Post by gashead1981 on Feb 17, 2023 15:09:32 GMT
35-45 million? That seems a bit high to me . I’d guess more like 15-20 million . I’ll caveat this by admitting I know naff all ! Government figures for 2019 suggest that land in Bristol is worth around £1.3m an acre, so gashead1981 may well be in the right ballpark. Land in Bristol is currently £1.2-1.5m per acre depending on the site and potential returns on development. |
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Post by onedaygas83 on Feb 17, 2023 15:20:30 GMT
Link to TG's Tweet just in case anybody wonders what we're talking about: He says fruition 3 times . It’s happening lads ! 😂 yes that word (fruition) made me think that's a hidden message to us Gasheads. 3 times to say the same word with meaning to a site we have on our radar in such a small post tells me that something is happening 😀 |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2023 15:24:30 GMT
Sounds like Eastville MK2, let's give away a ground we own and just lease one, as what could possibly go wrong! I do find it hard to believe anybody finds leasing a ground acceptable, given our history with grounds. There's no way we'll get Sainsbury's type money now for just residential land at the Mem. Topper, I didnt say lease the stadium, but the land to which it sits on. UWE would have been a similar arrangement. Dont confuse that as leasing a whole property as they arent the same thing. Bristol Live reported back in Dec 21 that the Fruit Market stadium would not be owned by the club but leased on a long term lease with a minimal yearly financial obligation and the sale of The Mem to the developer. Has this changed in the 2 years since or maybe this is the sticking point? |
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Post by fatherbrown on Feb 17, 2023 15:25:46 GMT
So Tom said fruition three times, have anyone considered the hidden meaning that the FM project has been squashed?.
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Post by rememberhalifax on Feb 17, 2023 15:27:08 GMT
Quite like the idea of new wrap around South stand , how about extending East Stand as well?
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 17, 2023 16:00:09 GMT
So Tom said fruition three times, have anyone considered the hidden meaning that the FM project has been squashed?. No, he's just taking the pith. 😇 |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2023 16:02:58 GMT
So Tom said fruition three times, have anyone considered the hidden meaning that the FM project has been squashed?. No, he's just taking the pith. 😇 He was using words which would only apeel to a few supporters. |
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Post by baggins on Feb 17, 2023 16:23:33 GMT
So Tom said fruition three times, have anyone considered the hidden meaning that the FM project has been squashed?. No, he's just taking the pith. 😇 You, outside, now. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 17, 2023 16:23:56 GMT
No, he's just taking the pith. 😇 He was using words which would only apeel to a few supporters. Only the core fanbase. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 17, 2023 16:24:59 GMT
No, he's just taking the pith. 😇 You, outside, now. Is that your chat up line? 😘 |
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 17, 2023 16:29:22 GMT
Topper, I didnt say lease the stadium, but the land to which it sits on. UWE would have been a similar arrangement. Dont confuse that as leasing a whole property as they arent the same thing. Bristol Live reported back in Dec 21 that the Fruit Market stadium would not be owned by the club but leased on a long term lease with a minimal yearly financial obligation and the sale of The Mem to the developer. Has this changed in the 2 years since or maybe this is the sticking point? They reported recently there were now 5 different developments proposed for the FM site, so it's anybody's guess what's actually happening. |
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Post by aghast on Feb 17, 2023 17:50:34 GMT
Surely whatever the Mem costs to rebuild the FM would cost exactly the same to build, apart from the costs of clearing both sites, so if it comes down to just RoI why's the FM going to generate that much more, it's not like there'll be no competition for conferences etc. You do wonder if it's RoI or it's the only option where we can sell the Mem for £m's then just lease the FM. How do Liverpool make Anfield pay when it's built in the middle of houses? Firstly, you cant compare us to Liverpool and Anfield when you have £100m of Prem money + Champs league + already a 45k seater stadium + Brand Liverpool which brings in global revenue per annum. Its the very reason above we need to look at maximising stadium use locally or having a multipurpose site where youll be able to draw an income from mixed industrial use opportunity which will be unrestricted. The mem will come with fairly heavy restrictions, especially with noise meaning we wont be able to maximise what AG do in the close season, for example. Its unlikely we will own the freehold the FM would be built on, there would probably be some 1000 year lease given so we wouldnt have to spend £60m on land. The ground rent cost will be absorbed into any additional commercial rental opportunity we can make on whatever else we can build on the site. Meaning that if we sell the mem for £35-40m, which is what that plot is worth I am told for housing, then you only have to find £20-30m to build a completely multi-use stadium with no restrictions and absolute carte blanche to build whatever infrastructure you want to ROI the site. So you've said before, and of course it would be cheaper to build a new stadium elsewhere after selling the Mem than building a new stadium at the Mem. But we don't have a new stadium elsewhere or it appears anywhere or any time soon. The announcement that stands are to be extended and improved just adds to the perception that nothing is happening on the FM front. Wael isn't a charity, so why spend hundreds of thousands of ££, at least, improving the Mem? I'm guessing because there is no plan A anymore, and this is plan B. And if we're not moving, then it simply has to be done before the Mem falls down or deemed unfit for L1 and 2 never mind the Championship. It's progress, at least, and we can all agree now that the Mem has to be redeveloped. Because it is being! |
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 17, 2023 18:06:22 GMT
If Wael was going to redevelop the Mem then you'd hope that he would go further than just replacing the tents with temporary stands.
I assume he's working on the basis that the improved stands will pay for themselves with increased sales.
If we can get the ground capacity back up to 12K+ the ground may be viable in the Championship for at least a few years.
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Post by gashead1981 on Feb 17, 2023 22:22:47 GMT
Firstly, you cant compare us to Liverpool and Anfield when you have £100m of Prem money + Champs league + already a 45k seater stadium + Brand Liverpool which brings in global revenue per annum. Its the very reason above we need to look at maximising stadium use locally or having a multipurpose site where youll be able to draw an income from mixed industrial use opportunity which will be unrestricted. The mem will come with fairly heavy restrictions, especially with noise meaning we wont be able to maximise what AG do in the close season, for example. Its unlikely we will own the freehold the FM would be built on, there would probably be some 1000 year lease given so we wouldnt have to spend £60m on land. The ground rent cost will be absorbed into any additional commercial rental opportunity we can make on whatever else we can build on the site. Meaning that if we sell the mem for £35-40m, which is what that plot is worth I am told for housing, then you only have to find £20-30m to build a completely multi-use stadium with no restrictions and absolute carte blanche to build whatever infrastructure you want to ROI the site. So you've said before, and of course it would be cheaper to build a new stadium elsewhere after selling the Mem than building a new stadium at the Mem. But we don't have a new stadium elsewhere or it appears anywhere or any time soon. The announcement that stands are to be extended and improved just adds to the perception that nothing is happening on the FM front. Wael isn't a charity, so why spend hundreds of thousands of ££, at least, improving the Mem? I'm guessing because there is no plan A anymore, and this is plan B. And if we're not moving, then it simply has to be done before the Mem falls down or deemed unfit for L1 and 2 never mind the Championship. It's progress, at least, and we can all agree now that the Mem has to be redeveloped. Because it is being! So how are we going to finance the £3k+ per seat build which would see the club approx £50m in debt? It’s not that I don’t want to see the Mem redeveloped, personally I would love us to, I just don’t see how it’s fiscally possible to a) build b) get a return c) make it the best long term solution without a decent plan for points a and b. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 17, 2023 23:13:28 GMT
For the sake of argument if we sell the Mem for £30m and build a new stadium for £50m, we've still got to find an extra £20m from somewhere. Assuming the land at the FM has a similar value to the Mem then even if the developer just wants interest payments as rental/lease costs that's another £1.2m p.a. to find.
The club will need to find around £3m p.a. each season before a ball is even kicked.
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Post by aghast on Feb 17, 2023 23:15:32 GMT
So you've said before, and of course it would be cheaper to build a new stadium elsewhere after selling the Mem than building a new stadium at the Mem. But we don't have a new stadium elsewhere or it appears anywhere or any time soon. The announcement that stands are to be extended and improved just adds to the perception that nothing is happening on the FM front. Wael isn't a charity, so why spend hundreds of thousands of ££, at least, improving the Mem? I'm guessing because there is no plan A anymore, and this is plan B. And if we're not moving, then it simply has to be done before the Mem falls down or deemed unfit for L1 and 2 never mind the Championship. It's progress, at least, and we can all agree now that the Mem has to be redeveloped. Because it is being! So how are we going to finance the £3k+ per seat build which would see the club approx £50m in debt? It’s not that I don’t want to see the Mem redeveloped, personally I would love us to, I just don’t see how it’s fiscally possible to a) build b) get a return c) make it the best long term solution without a decent plan for points a and b. Well as I've said before there are plenty of revenue generating opportunities at the Mem if we maximise the space, which would mean giving up a lot of the car park, of course. Restaurants, bars, hotel, conference and hospitality facilities, daytime and evening events. It would be a long term return for investors, but it could be done if someone with deep pockets and time felt inclined to invest. Of course that's easy for me to say looking in from the outside. |
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