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Barton
Jul 21, 2023 8:59:11 GMT
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Post by trevorgas on Jul 21, 2023 8:59:11 GMT
Agree Stuart,my view is if you don't understand yourself how can you expect to understand and lead others. I wonder, out loud, if Mr Barton understands that concept? Or do we think, as I suspect, that to understand himself causes a multitude of conflicting emotions when confronting his past? I think many of us could justifiably say that about ourselves. But as Trevorgas points out, we learn and most importantly learn to recognise ourselves in order to improve. I believe this is an age related process, experience and lessons overcoming the blind bravado of youth/young adulthood. I would say Mr Barton is beyond the point where this should have kicked in. Agree Les,it's probably fair to see that JB had a challenging early life and must as we all do carry a fair bit of baggage, getting that on the table, unpicking it , understanding and reflecting is a key process if you are going to move on. You are correct that increased maturity really facilitates ,I still mentor a number of relatively senior managers and this is what we talk about first up ,it's fascinating and very inspirational. |
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Barton
Jul 21, 2023 9:00:22 GMT
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Post by trevorgas on Jul 21, 2023 9:00:22 GMT
Morning Les,yes I was , Leadership is a complex skill set ,not one dimensional,it took many years for me to "get it",the key for me was to understand me as a person and why I reacted/Responded to circumstances in the way that I did. MBTI was a great tool for that and gave me the tool kit to work on what I was not good at . Eh? What comment of mine were you supposed to be replying too? I don't believe I have mentioned anything about 'leadership' have I? The bit about emotion etc |
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 21, 2023 9:02:37 GMT
It’s called Emotional Intelligence and over the past 20/30 years it has become very important. Any leader unable to show emotional intelligence would find leading groups of people harder than if they showed it. Never really looked up what the dictionary definition is but I’ve always understood it as being able to manage your own emotions in any situation and being able to understand the emotions of others at that time and acting accordingly. You learn to develop empathy and communicate effectively using social skills. You are very aware of yourself and the impact you can have. Qualities that you can learn and use more effectively as you develop.
Basically being a very good leader.
I suspect Ferguson, Clough, Guardiola, Ben Stokes and others have/had those qualities in spades.
UTG!
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Barton
Jul 21, 2023 9:02:58 GMT
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Post by Gastafari on Jul 21, 2023 9:02:58 GMT
Eh? What comment of mine were you supposed to be replying too? I don't believe I have mentioned anything about 'leadership' have I? The bit about emotion etc Which bit? Could you please point out the specific bit you were replying too? |
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Barton
Jul 21, 2023 9:04:11 GMT
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Post by oldie on Jul 21, 2023 9:04:11 GMT
It’s called Emotional Intelligence and over the past 20/30 years it has become very important. Any leader unable to show emotional intelligence would find leading groups of people harder than if they showed it. Never really looked up what the dictionary definition is but I’ve always understood it as being able to manage your own emotions in any situation and being able to understand the emotions of others at that time and acting accordingly. You learn to develop empathy and communicate effectively using social skills. You are very aware of yourself and the impact you can have. Qualities that you can learn and use more effectively as you develop. Basically being a very good leader. I suspect Ferguson, Clough, Guardiola, Ben Stokes and others have/had those qualities in spades. UTG! Indeed sir. |
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Post by copster on Jul 21, 2023 9:08:53 GMT
Jeez I’m just glad I don’t have to work in an environment where “dominance” is considered a good leadership trait 😂
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Post by DrFaustus on Jul 21, 2023 9:14:23 GMT
This thread reads like a willy waving contest. Bring on the football. You are not forced to read nor then need to contribute Good one Les. You contribute to half the threads on here, so I'm sure you'll allow the rest of us an opinion. |
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Post by oldie on Jul 21, 2023 9:16:51 GMT
You are not forced to read nor then need to contribute Good one Les. You contribute to half the threads on here, so I'm sure you'll allow the rest of us an opinion. Of course But be honest, you contribution was to be critical and sarcastic about the contributions of others. How are you these days anyway? I think it's nigh on two decades since I last saw you. |
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Barton
Jul 21, 2023 9:18:43 GMT
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Post by Gastafari on Jul 21, 2023 9:18:43 GMT
To you 1981 and Gastafari. You say lack of emotion is "essential" Do you really believe that a lack of empathy is possible in a good leader? That's rubbish,my own personal experience and what made me successful in leadership positions was being able to display Passion, empathy and a bit of charisma. I would say Roy Keane was a brilliant leader and captain for Manchester United. He may have displayed a lot of passion and he does have charisma. Do you think he had much empathy? Jose Mourinho one of the most succesful managers over the last 20 years. Again he certainly had passion and at times charisma, do you think he had much empathy? |
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Post by A Source (aka Angry Badger) on Jul 21, 2023 9:21:07 GMT
Jeez I’m just glad I don’t have to work in an environment where “dominance” is considered a good leadership trait 😂 Some people pay good money for it..... Oh sorry, getting work and pleasure mixed up |
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Post by purdownpoacher1 on Jul 21, 2023 9:24:37 GMT
Jeez I’m just glad I don’t have to work in an environment where “dominance” is considered a good leadership trait 😂 Amen to that sentiment ! 👍💙utg |
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Barton
Jul 21, 2023 9:27:42 GMT
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Post by DrFaustus on Jul 21, 2023 9:27:42 GMT
Good one Les. You contribute to half the threads on here, so I'm sure you'll allow the rest of us an opinion. Of course But be honest, you contribution was to be critical and sarcastic about the contributions of others. How are you these days anyway? I think it's nigh on two decades since I last saw you. Just said Tate was mad and unsure Barton quoting him achieved much, that's all. You must have been hammered as me and Father Jack talked to you on the West last season! 😁 Hope you're well. |
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Post by oldie on Jul 21, 2023 9:35:08 GMT
Of course But be honest, you contribution was to be critical and sarcastic about the contributions of others. How are you these days anyway? I think it's nigh on two decades since I last saw you. Just said Tate was mad and unsure Barton quoting him achieved much, that's all. You must have been hammered as me and Father Jack talked to you on the West last season! 😁 Hope you're well. Oh Christ....another age related incident 😱 Besides that, all good thanks |
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Post by oldie on Jul 21, 2023 9:38:04 GMT
That's rubbish,my own personal experience and what made me successful in leadership positions was being able to display Passion, empathy and a bit of charisma. I would say Roy Keane was a brilliant leader and captain for Manchester United. He may have displayed a lot of passion and he does have charisma. Do you think he had much empathy? Jose Mourinho one of the most succesful managers over the last 20 years. Again he certainly had passion and at times charisma, do you think he had much empathy? You call him a brilliant leader. Others (I would) call him a great footballer. His leadership failings were laid bare when caught in the headlights of first team management. |
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Barton
Jul 21, 2023 9:41:23 GMT
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Post by trevorgas on Jul 21, 2023 9:41:23 GMT
That's rubbish,my own personal experience and what made me successful in leadership positions was being able to display Passion, empathy and a bit of charisma. I would say Roy Keane was a brilliant leader and captain for Manchester United. He may have displayed a lot of passion and he does have charisma. Do you think he had much empathy? Jose Mourinho one of the most succesful managers over the last 20 years. Again he certainly had passion and at times charisma, do you think he had much empathy? I have no idea,what I would say public personna always different to private and for every rule there are exceptions. Also leading by fear is not leadership it's just another form of bullying. |
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Barton
Jul 21, 2023 10:00:47 GMT
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Post by Gastafari on Jul 21, 2023 10:00:47 GMT
I would say Roy Keane was a brilliant leader and captain for Manchester United. He may have displayed a lot of passion and he does have charisma. Do you think he had much empathy? Jose Mourinho one of the most succesful managers over the last 20 years. Again he certainly had passion and at times charisma, do you think he had much empathy? You call him a brilliant leader. Others (I would) call him a great footballer. His leadership failings were laid bare when caught in the headlights of first team management. Yes. He captained Manchester United to multiple league titles, a European Cup, Fa Cups, League Cups. Of course he was a brilliant leader on the pitch. So you don't think the most succesful Premier League Captain wasn't a brilliant leader? He also did win The Championship title as a manager. |
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Post by oldie on Jul 21, 2023 10:06:11 GMT
You call him a brilliant leader. Others (I would) call him a great footballer. His leadership failings were laid bare when caught in the headlights of first team management. Yes. He captained Manchester United to multiple league titles, a European Cup, Fa Cups, League Cups. Of course he was a brilliant leader on the pitch. So you don't think the most succesful Premier League Captain wasn't a brilliant leader? He also did win The Championship title as a manager. I would say that he was integral to the team/club led by Ferguson. Many moons ago I attended a Sporting Dinner where Ferguson was guest of honour and main speaker. Apart from his very expensive taste in wine I was struck (in chatting to him afterwards on our table) by his humility and empathy for people of his background in Scotland. A proud man who struck me as one at peace with himself. |
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Barton
Jul 21, 2023 10:10:58 GMT
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Post by Gastafari on Jul 21, 2023 10:10:58 GMT
Yes. He captained Manchester United to multiple league titles, a European Cup, Fa Cups, League Cups. Of course he was a brilliant leader on the pitch. So you don't think the most succesful Premier League Captain wasn't a brilliant leader? He also did win The Championship title as a manager. I would say that he was integral to the team/club led by Ferguson. Many moons ago I attended a Sporting Dinner where Ferguson was guest of honour and main speaker. Apart from his very expensive taste in wine I was struck (in chatting to him afterwards on our table) by his humility and empathy for people of his background in Scotland. A proud man who struck me as one at peace with himself. Why have club Captains then? The Captains are the leaders on the pitch, to motivate, inspire and lead by example. That's the whole point of them! |
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Barton
Jul 21, 2023 10:23:50 GMT
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Post by oldie on Jul 21, 2023 10:23:50 GMT
I would say that he was integral to the team/club led by Ferguson. Many moons ago I attended a Sporting Dinner where Ferguson was guest of honour and main speaker. Apart from his very expensive taste in wine I was struck (in chatting to him afterwards on our table) by his humility and empathy for people of his background in Scotland. A proud man who struck me as one at peace with himself. Why have club Captains then? The Captains are the leaders on the pitch, to motivate, inspire and lead by example. That's the whole point of them! Harry Maguire? He has been club captain...Don't wish to pick on him but I am sure you can understand where I am coming from |
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Barton
Jul 21, 2023 10:50:42 GMT
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Post by Gastafari on Jul 21, 2023 10:50:42 GMT
Why have club Captains then? The Captains are the leaders on the pitch, to motivate, inspire and lead by example. That's the whole point of them! Harry Maguire? He has been club captain...Don't wish to pick on him but I am sure you can understand where I am coming from I haven't said Harry Maguire is a brilliant leader. I said Roy Keane was,because he clearly was. All successful teams have leaders on the pitch, some teams have plenty in the same team, others will have just one, maybe two. Not all successful teams have great managers with supreme leadership skills though. Frank Rijkaard and Roberto Di Matteo won European Cups, not through great leadership. Frank Rijkaard at Barcelona had Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta etc all players that were leaders. Roberto Di Matteo at Chelsea had a plethora of leaders in that team John Terry, Ashley Cole, Frank Lampard, Didier Drogba etc. Claudio Ranieri won the Premier League with Leicester, it wasn't to do with great leadership qualities from him, it was Wes Morgan, Robert Huth, Cristian Fuchs, N'Golo Kante, Riyad Mahrez and Jamie Vardy who all had seasons of their lives and all lead by example. Roy Keane, John Terry(There's a reason he's dubbed Captain,Leader,Legend), Vincent Kompany, Jordan Henderson have all been brilliant leaders. Managers can be leaders in the dressing room, on the training pitch, in terms of man management etc, but they can't really influence the going ons on the pitch. It's the players jobs, and the Club Captains are given that specific duty, to motivate, inspire and lead by example. To be the Leader. As I said what is the point of having club Captains then? |
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