|
|
Post by oldie on Jul 21, 2023 11:23:47 GMT
Harry Maguire? He has been club captain...Don't wish to pick on him but I am sure you can understand where I am coming from I haven't said Harry Maguire is a brilliant leader. I said Roy Keane was,because he clearly was. All successful teams have leaders on the pitch, some teams have plenty in the same team, others will have just one, maybe two. Not all successful teams have great managers with supreme leadership skills though. Frank Rijkaard and Roberto Di Matteo won European Cups, not through great leadership. Frank Rijkaard at Barcelona had Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta etc all players that were leaders. Roberto Di Matteo at Chelsea had a plethora of leaders in that team John Terry, Ashley Cole, Frank Lampard, Didier Drogba etc. Claudio Ranieri won the Premier League with Leicester, it wasn't to do with great leadership qualities from him, it was Wes Morgan, Robert Huth, Cristian Fuchs, N'Golo Kante, Riyad Mahrez and Jamie Vardy who all had seasons of their lives and all lead by example. Roy Keane, John Terry(There's a reason he's dubbed Captain,Leader,Legend), Vincent Kompany, Jordan Henderson have all been brilliant leaders. Managers can be leaders in the dressing room, on the training pitch, in terms of man management etc, but they can't really influence the going ons on the pitch. It's the players jobs, and the Club Captains are given that specific duty, to motivate, inspire and lead by example. To be the Leader. As I said what is the point of having club Captains then? My last post on this topic. You do go around and around Gastafari. You claim "what's the point of club captains", inferring they are true leaders on the pitch. I point you to Maguire but apparently he doesn't count. In closing I think your rhetoric on leadership is simplistic, with a view that appears to be in monochrome. It's not like that, I would just echo what Trevorgas has already said, in my own words. Good leadership, successful leadership, is about conviction, confidence, self awareness, humility and empathy. Not screaming at people, not humiliating them one to one or in public, not goading people with exhibitions of personal wealth on social media, not calling people, your customers "Herbert's". Any likeness to a current employee is coincidental and is my observation only. |
|
|
|
Post by Tilly's Thighs on Jul 21, 2023 11:31:36 GMT
Id say that to be any form of leader, be it in an army, company, a sports person or a coach you need to have dominance and a lack of emotion. This is exactly what I mean by what is "toxic masculinity". If you remove one of those traits from every successful man alive he wouldn't be the successful man he is. The same goes for females. I've worked with some absolutely brilliant women, and I would say dominance and strength were their overriding personality traits. Is that toxic femininity at play? Was it a bad thing? Not in the workplace, they were utterly brilliant at what they did and they had my full respect even if others (men and women) didn't like the way they were. To you 1981 and Gastafari. You say lack of emotion is "essential" Do you really believe that a lack of empathy is possible in a good leader? Emotional intelligence is a good quality for a leader to have, in my experience. |
|
|
|
Barton
Jul 21, 2023 11:45:58 GMT
via mobile
Post by Gastafari on Jul 21, 2023 11:45:58 GMT
I haven't said Harry Maguire is a brilliant leader. I said Roy Keane was,because he clearly was. All successful teams have leaders on the pitch, some teams have plenty in the same team, others will have just one, maybe two. Not all successful teams have great managers with supreme leadership skills though. Frank Rijkaard and Roberto Di Matteo won European Cups, not through great leadership. Frank Rijkaard at Barcelona had Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta etc all players that were leaders. Roberto Di Matteo at Chelsea had a plethora of leaders in that team John Terry, Ashley Cole, Frank Lampard, Didier Drogba etc. Claudio Ranieri won the Premier League with Leicester, it wasn't to do with great leadership qualities from him, it was Wes Morgan, Robert Huth, Cristian Fuchs, N'Golo Kante, Riyad Mahrez and Jamie Vardy who all had seasons of their lives and all lead by example. Roy Keane, John Terry(There's a reason he's dubbed Captain,Leader,Legend), Vincent Kompany, Jordan Henderson have all been brilliant leaders. Managers can be leaders in the dressing room, on the training pitch, in terms of man management etc, but they can't really influence the going ons on the pitch. It's the players jobs, and the Club Captains are given that specific duty, to motivate, inspire and lead by example. To be the Leader. As I said what is the point of having club Captains then? My last post on this topic. You do go around and around Gastafari. You claim "what's the point of club captains", inferring they are true leaders on the pitch. I point you to Maguire but apparently he doesn't count. In closing I think your rhetoric on leadership is simplistic, with a view that appears to be in monochrome. It's not like that, I would just echo what Trevorgas has already said, in my own words. Good leadership, successful leadership, is about conviction, confidence, self awareness, humility and empathy. Not screaming at people, not humiliating them one to one or in public, not goading people with exhibitions of personal wealth on social media, not calling people, your customers "Herbert's". Any likeness to a current employee is coincidental and is my observation only. Because they are Oldie. Your last post on the topic because you have no answer. You don't answer the points I've raised. Maguires not a good leader. He was given that role to try and be the leader but he failed. Plenty of people in many walks of life fail at certain roles they are given. What so you think Sir Alex Ferguson didn't scream at people? Where do you think the 'Hairdryer treatment' quote came from? Remember the David Beckham boot incident? He humiliated plenty of players in his time at Manchester Utd, Paul Ince, Jaap Stam, even Roy Keane in the end. Also what about the influencing of Officials? The 'Mind Games' with other managers, i.e the quotes he made towards Stuart Pearce which led to Kevin Keegans meltdown? No offence Oldie, but you're talking garbage. |
|
|
|
Post by warehamgas on Jul 21, 2023 12:15:06 GMT
That's rubbish,my own personal experience and what made me successful in leadership positions was being able to display Passion, empathy and a bit of charisma. I would say Roy Keane was a brilliant leader and captain for Manchester United. He may have displayed a lot of passion and he does have charisma. Do you think he had much empathy? Jose Mourinho one of the most succesful managers over the last 20 years. Again he certainly had passion and at times charisma, do you think he had much empathy? Roy K was a very good footballer and a great captain. And he had lots of qualities but not sure he had much empathy which didn’t stop him achieving as a footballer. But as a manager his lack of empathy put a ceiling on how high he managed. Owners would not trust him with upsetting their best players at the very top. Klopp and Guardiola’s man-management is excellent. Keane is a good pundit because he tells it as it is and as a player he was very selfish which helped him on the pitch but man-management isn’t his thing. I don’t think people would call him emotionally intelligent which didn’t stop him achieving as a player. UTG! |
|
|
|
Barton
Jul 24, 2023 6:46:43 GMT
Post by Kingswood Polak on Jul 24, 2023 6:46:43 GMT
I wonder, out loud, if Mr Barton understands that concept? Or do we think, as I suspect, that to understand himself causes a multitude of conflicting emotions when confronting his past? I think many of us could justifiably say that about ourselves. But as Trevorgas points out, we learn and most importantly learn to recognise ourselves in order to improve. I believe this is an age related process, experience and lessons overcoming the blind bravado of youth/young adulthood. I would say Mr Barton is beyond the point where this should have kicked in. Agree Les,it's probably fair to see that JB had a challenging early life and must as we all do carry a fair bit of baggage, getting that on the table, unpicking it , understanding and reflecting is a key process if you are going to move on. You are correct that increased maturity really facilitates ,I still mentor a number of relatively senior managers and this is what we talk about first up ,it's fascinating and very inspirational. Surely the first thing in understanding yourself is the ability to recognise you have erred and that you have a wish to change. I see no such evidence, none that has not been forced onto him. If anything, he has shown that he seemingly looks for and craves attention, something i could understand from a much younger man but not a man of his age. His ego knows no bounds. I see no evidence of him wanting to change and , if anything, he is now setting up,or has set up a paid for subscription service. I am shocked the our owner allows this but then i have my own thoughts on that relationship and think it would be a difficult task to reign in JB or to get rid. I simply do not know if Wael has the gumption to give JB a talking to or , in old money, a 80llock1ng |
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on Jul 24, 2023 7:44:36 GMT
Who's seriously going to pay £4.69 a month just to read JB's "extra" Tweets?
|
|
|
|
Post by legas on Jul 24, 2023 8:04:18 GMT
Who's seriously going to pay £4.69 a month just to read JB's "extra" Tweets? Lawyers? 😏 |
|
|
|
Post by 2nd May 1990 on Jul 24, 2023 15:33:30 GMT
Who's seriously going to pay £4.69 a month just to read JB's "extra" Tweets? Lawyers? 😏 And the new Bristol Post reporter |
|
|
|
Barton
Jul 28, 2023 17:41:40 GMT
via mobile
Post by gasmania on Jul 28, 2023 17:41:40 GMT
|
|
