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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 22, 2023 19:48:24 GMT
Belshaw's an average to poor L1 goalie, I can't see how we can progress to being a top 10 or better side if he remains in goal, as it seems unlikely we'll be able to outscore out opponents in every game.
Instead of wasting £250K on Alfie May that money really needs to be spent on a goalie and also a dominant CH.
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Post by olskooltoteender on Jul 22, 2023 19:58:55 GMT
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Post by olskooltoteender on Jul 22, 2023 20:00:51 GMT
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 22, 2023 20:59:47 GMT
So the stats which pit him the bottom 5 of keepers last season are wrong. So that means there were 19 better keepers in league 1 last season. What stats are we using and comparing? As we all know, you can use data to manipulate and create any argument you want? Just interested who these better all round keepers are? Most likely the ones who played in a team that conceded less goals than us last season? We're only playing pre-season friendlies and we're already concerned we're letting him needless goals. |
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Post by bluestickgas1 on Jul 22, 2023 21:03:39 GMT
Belshaw's an average to poor L1 goalie, I can't see how we can progress to being a top 10 or better side if he remains in goal, as it seems unlikely we'll be able to outscore out opponents in every game. Instead of wasting £250K on Alfie May that money really needs to be spent on a goalie and also a dominant CH. Let’s agree to disagree Topper re Belshaw as I can’t think of many if any better League 1 goalkeepers - certainly from last season…. Ripley maybe but then again he made a number of mistakes in games I’d seen him in and also I don’t think he’s as much of a ball playing sweeper keeper… re dominant CH - haven’t we got that in Wilson? With Wilson and Friend alongside him and a season of League 1 football behind him I think Beefy is going to be much better and more comfortable this season and like the League 2 Beefy we had. We seem to want to write players off so quickly these days…. If CT is available, yes I’d like him back but remember, he hasn’t played league 1 football before and whilst he had a few games at the start of last season in Stokes starting 11, he too may not end up adapting to League 1 football straight away - just like Beefy didn’t… Personally I’d like to see another winger next… |
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Post by bluestickgas1 on Jul 22, 2023 21:07:34 GMT
What stats are we using and comparing? As we all know, you can use data to manipulate and create any argument you want? Just interested who these better all round keepers are? Most likely the ones who played in a team that conceded less goals than us last season? We're only playing pre-season friendlies and we're already concerned we're letting him needless goals. But thats such a pointless stat to use as Goals conceded are not solely down to the Goal keeper!? And we’ve conceded a few goals in pre season - not many I’d add and as mentioned earlier, Belshaw had no chance with the first - you just have to admire a great pinpoint finish and I think Hoole is as much culpable for the 2nd as Belshaw was… |
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 23, 2023 5:50:26 GMT
So the stats which pit him the bottom 5 of keepers last season are wrong. So that means there were 19 better keepers in league 1 last season. What stats are we using and comparing? As we all know, you can use data to manipulate and create any argument you want? Just interested who these better all round keepers are? This is Belshaw's data to the end of October. Things didn't get any better.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2023 7:20:40 GMT
Dear 1990, The glorious memory of promotion to the Championship still lingers fondly, as does the hoofball to big Dev up front and the memorable spanking of our neighbours at Twerton on a balmy Tuesday or Wednesday evening. It's now 2023, skill and ability have vastly improved at all levels of professional football. Unfortunately, since then, the internet has developed and allowed Gasheads to analyse in great detail and critique moments in meaningless friendlies. As was the case in your glorious year, friendlies are still arranged solely for the purpose of increasing player fitness, as has always been the case.Finally 1990, can I please come back as 2023 isn't making much sense, common sense and logic appear to have dissapeared completely. Yours sincerely, 2023. If that's really the case why is JB starting with the same 11 player every match and giving them 60 mins plus and the rest 30 mins max? Why isn't it changing the starting 11 so they all get the same (fitness) game time? It seems to me he's concentrating on what's likely to be the starting 11 v Pompey in order to get them use to playing as a team. Regardless last season's weaknesses are still being highlighted, we still don't have a dominant CH, Belshaw still makes mistakes which costs us goals but we have no problem scoring goals. Just meant as a bit of banter really Topper, thanks for the hugely ironic response though. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 23, 2023 7:42:06 GMT
If that's really the case why is JB starting with the same 11 player every match and giving them 60 mins plus and the rest 30 mins max? Why isn't it changing the starting 11 so they all get the same (fitness) game time? It seems to me he's concentrating on what's likely to be the starting 11 v Pompey in order to get them use to playing as a team. Regardless last season's weaknesses are still being highlighted, we still don't have a dominant CH, Belshaw still makes mistakes which costs us goals but we have no problem scoring goals. Just meant as a bit of banter really Topper, thanks for the hugely ironic response though. Why waste your time posting all that then if you didn't want any kind of response? |
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 23, 2023 7:47:26 GMT
Most likely the ones who played in a team that conceded less goals than us last season? We're only playing pre-season friendlies and we're already concerned we're letting him needless goals. But thats such a pointless stat to use as Goals conceded are not solely down to the Goal keeper!? And we’ve conceded a few goals in pre season - not many I’d add and as mentioned earlier, Belshaw had no chance with the first - you just have to admire a great pinpoint finish and I think Hoole is as much culpable for the 2nd as Belshaw was… We've only really played Cardiff the other two games were v non league sides? |
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Post by percy on Jul 23, 2023 8:30:04 GMT
Agree with Toppers point about starting the same 11 every time and not using preseason to give enough time to all squad players and try a few options (especially up front). Get JM up front with our best attacking players and let’s see!
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Post by bluestickgas1 on Jul 23, 2023 9:07:45 GMT
But thats such a pointless stat to use as Goals conceded are not solely down to the Goal keeper!? And we’ve conceded a few goals in pre season - not many I’d add and as mentioned earlier, Belshaw had no chance with the first - you just have to admire a great pinpoint finish and I think Hoole is as much culpable for the 2nd as Belshaw was… We've only really played Cardiff the other two games were v non league sides? So if you exclude non league and only count Cardiff and BRAGA games we’ve conceded 4 goals of which only 1 can be put down to Belshaw and which he wasn’t solely culpable… hardly conceding lots of needless goals where Belly has been at fault? |
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Post by gasify on Jul 23, 2023 9:15:16 GMT
Hope he paid for his own air fare! 🤣 |
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Post by bluestickgas1 on Jul 23, 2023 9:16:52 GMT
What stats are we using and comparing? As we all know, you can use data to manipulate and create any argument you want? Just interested who these better all round keepers are? This is Belshaw's data to the end of October. Things didn't get any better. Interesting stats but what’s the definition of save % and goals prevented? Against all shots against? Against expected saves ? Against what criteria? And is this all games, league games only and what are the games played comparisons? Depending on definition etc then you’d have to consider the defence in front and I’d argue that any overworked keeper will always end up with worse stats because the defence in front are not doing their job in preventing shooting/scoring opportunities and we know we had a poor defensive unit last season which was not confident, settled or experienced with little to no League 1 experience in it… Are we comparing apples to apples here? Without the context, structure, definitions and direct comparison stats where games played etc are equal then it’s not necessarily a fair comparison? if these stats are all directly equal then I stand corrected but I don’t think they are |
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Post by purdownpoacher1 on Jul 23, 2023 10:24:18 GMT
Hope he paid for his own air fare! 🤣 I must admit that crossed my mind ! 🤣💙utg |
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Jul 23, 2023 10:29:11 GMT
Hope he paid for his own air fare! 🤣 I must admit that crossed my mind ! 🤣💙utg And me! Although there is the mutual benefit of our players training alongside someone who has played at the highest level as recently as last season. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 23, 2023 10:39:00 GMT
This is Belshaw's data to the end of October. Things didn't get any better. Interesting stats but what’s the definition of save % and goals prevented? Against all shots against? Against expected saves ? Against what criteria? And is this all games, league games only and what are the games played comparisons? Depending on definition etc then you’d have to consider the defence in front and I’d argue that any overworked keeper will always end up with worse stats because the defence in front are not doing their job in preventing shooting/scoring opportunities and we know we had a poor defensive unit last season which was not confident, settled or experienced with little to no League 1 experience in it… Are we comparing apples to apples here? Without the context, structure, definitions and direct comparison stats where games played etc are equal then it’s not necessarily a fair comparison? if these stats are all directly equal then I stand corrected but I don’t think they are Seasonal stats shown on the link below, if you click on the "Save %" table you can sort it into highest lowest %, Balshaw is in the bottom 10, James Trafford, along with Matt Macey, are in the top 3 which suggests the better goalies have the better %. Interesingly Jamel Blackman is below Balshaw but Conner Ripley, who Rovers apparently were interested in signing, finished 12th, which suggests JB was (is?) trying to sign a better goalie. fbref.com/en/comps/15/keepers/League-One-Stats If you toggle the stats to show the "non-qualifiers" it shows Balcombe 14th in the table, so he was clearly a better shot stopper if not overall better goalie. |
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Post by kentgas on Jul 23, 2023 11:00:10 GMT
Agree with Toppers point about starting the same 11 every time and not using preseason to give enough time to all squad players and try a few options (especially up front). Get JM up front with our best attacking players and let’s see! Doesn’t look like Loft got any minutes yesterday which seems odd to me. |
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pirate
Forum Legend
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Post by pirate on Jul 23, 2023 11:24:45 GMT
Interesting stats but what’s the definition of save % and goals prevented? Against all shots against? Against expected saves ? Against what criteria? And is this all games, league games only and what are the games played comparisons? Depending on definition etc then you’d have to consider the defence in front and I’d argue that any overworked keeper will always end up with worse stats because the defence in front are not doing their job in preventing shooting/scoring opportunities and we know we had a poor defensive unit last season which was not confident, settled or experienced with little to no League 1 experience in it… Are we comparing apples to apples here? Without the context, structure, definitions and direct comparison stats where games played etc are equal then it’s not necessarily a fair comparison? if these stats are all directly equal then I stand corrected but I don’t think they are Seasonal stats shown on the link below, if you click on the "Save %" table you can sort it into highest lowest %, Balshaw is in the bottom 10, James Trafford, along with Matt Macey, are in the top 3 which suggests the better goalies have the better %. Interesingly Jamel Blackman is below Balshaw but Conner Ripley, who Rovers apparently were interested in signing, finished 12th, which suggests JB was (is?) trying to sign a better goalie. fbref.com/en/comps/15/keepers/League-One-Stats If you toggle the stats to show the "non-qualifiers" it shows Balcombe 14th in the table, so he was clearly a better shot stopper if not overall better goalie. Save Percentage is a simple metric that looks at Saves divided by Shots Faced. Belshaw ranks one of the worst at 20th on FotMob with 63.3% save percentage. Prevented Goals/90 is a metric that looks at the total expected goals conceded and subtracts the actual goals conceded on an average per 90 minutes of play. Belshaw's is is easily one of the worst in 20th with (minus!) -10.01. For comparison, Connor Ripley made the most Saves per 90 and had a Goals Prevented of 7.5. It doesn't matter what data you look at it paints a poor picture, but then that is what a lot of our eyes also told us watching his erratic performances. Attachment Deleted |
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 23, 2023 11:55:38 GMT
Agree with Toppers point about starting the same 11 every time and not using preseason to give enough time to all squad players and try a few options (especially up front). Get JM up front with our best attacking players and let’s see! Doesn’t look like Loft got any minutes yesterday which seems odd to me. Did he get injured warming up as he was named on the bench but I can't see him in the photo of all the players etc taken after the game? |
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