|
|
Israel
Oct 18, 2023 18:16:56 GMT
via mobile
Post by oldie on Oct 18, 2023 18:16:56 GMT
That's what I thought. You have no idea Nope. I'm getting all the gen info from you guys on here. I'd be a dribbling mess if it weren't for the facts, insight and knowledge from yourself and pirates twitter clips. Keep up the good work. Yours. The f*cking clueless d1ckhead who's opinion is loony and BS. Edit. Red shirt wanting, unvaxxed right wing flag sh4gger who knows nothing about anything. Carry on, please 🤪 Child |
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 18, 2023 18:27:09 GMT
via mobile
Post by gashead79 on Oct 18, 2023 18:27:09 GMT
Nope. I'm getting all the gen info from you guys on here. I'd be a dribbling mess if it weren't for the facts, insight and knowledge from yourself and pirates twitter clips. Keep up the good work. Yours. The f*cking clueless d1ckhead who's opinion is loony and BS. Edit. Red shirt wanting, unvaxxed right wing flag sh4gger who knows nothing about anything. Carry on, please 🤪 Child I'll add it to the list. Interestingly I've noticed you getting schooled on the other forum. So you get battered over there, then come and pass that knowledge over here. Crafty little sausage aren't you! |
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 18, 2023 18:30:12 GMT
via mobile
Post by oldie on Oct 18, 2023 18:30:12 GMT
I'll add it to the list. Interestingly I've noticed you getting schooled on the other forum. So you get battered over there, then come and pass that knowledge over here. Crafty little sausage aren't you! Must have missed that. Schooled on what exactly. If you are going to say things like that, the quote it. I really am beginning to suspect your self confessed cynicism is cover for an extremely narrow mind and a limited vocabulary. But anyway Quite it, from the other forum? |
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 18, 2023 19:21:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by gashead79 on Oct 18, 2023 19:21:50 GMT
I'll add it to the list. Interestingly I've noticed you getting schooled on the other forum. So you get battered over there, then come and pass that knowledge over here. Crafty little sausage aren't you! Must have missed that. Schooled on what exactly. If you are going to say things like that, the quote it. I really am beginning to suspect your self confessed cynicism is cover for an extremely narrow mind and a limited vocabulary. But anyway Quite it, from the other forum? Narrow minded. I'll add it to the list. Oldie,you've been slapped left and right by ridetothesun and nobby over there. I dont need to quote anything you know the score lol. Call me more names, I like it, its revealing more and more how frustrated you are. I'll be all those things over a terrorist sympathiser like you pal. Oh, do I need to quote that aswell? |
|
yattongas
Forum Legend
Posts: 15,466 
Member is Online
|
Israel
Oct 18, 2023 19:34:59 GMT
Post by yattongas on Oct 18, 2023 19:34:59 GMT
You must be quite frustrated yourself 79 if you have to go to another forum to say Oldie is losing the argument. Can’t you win an argument on here ?
|
|
|
|
Post by gashead79 on Oct 18, 2023 19:45:22 GMT
You must be quite frustrated yourself 79 if you have to go to another forum to say Oldie is losing the argument. Can’t you win an argument on here ? I dont argue. I post views and get idiotic replies from frustrated old people and hyenas. |
|
yattongas
Forum Legend
Posts: 15,466
Member is Online
|
Israel
Oct 18, 2023 19:55:42 GMT
Post by yattongas on Oct 18, 2023 19:55:42 GMT
You must be quite frustrated yourself 79 if you have to go to another forum to say Oldie is losing the argument. Can’t you win an argument on here ? I dont argue. I post views and get idiotic replies from frustrated old people and hyenas. Bit odd , but whatever floats your boat. |
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 19, 2023 3:45:21 GMT
via mobile
Post by oldie on Oct 19, 2023 3:45:21 GMT
Must have missed that. Schooled on what exactly. If you are going to say things like that, the quote it. I really am beginning to suspect your self confessed cynicism is cover for an extremely narrow mind and a limited vocabulary. But anyway Quite it, from the other forum? Narrow minded. I'll add it to the list. Oldie,you've been slapped left and right by ridetothesun and nobby over there. I dont need to quote anything you know the score lol. Call me more names, I like it, its revealing more and more how frustrated you are. I'll be all those things over a terrorist sympathiser like you pal. Oh, do I need to quote that aswell? Ah I see. Just your opinion, which of course you are entitled to. Btw, your little spat with RD had nothing to do with me. Back to topic. |
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 19, 2023 7:25:22 GMT
Post by supergas on Oct 19, 2023 7:25:22 GMT
You say the response from Israel is disproportionate can I ask, in your view, what would be a proportionate response? how many innocent Palestinians can Israel kill to make it proportionate? The bombing of Coventry was the single most concentrated attack on a British City during World war 2. In one night 4300 homes were destroyed and an estimated 554 deaths.It is said that Churchill ordered the bombing of Dresden as payback for Coventry. The bombing of Dresden killed in excess of 25000 people. Was Dresden in your view disproportionate, was it genocide, was it a war crime? It probably helped to bring the war in Europe to an end. Was Hiroshima disproportionate even though it effectively bought the war to an end? Imagine if these events hadn't happened where would the world be now? If Hammas decide to attack the state of Israel who as you say are a military machine how do they expect Israel to respond? It's the innocent civilians on both sides who I feel for. It's wrong for Israel to cut off supplies/water etc to Gaza but I'm sorry the word genocide is too freely used these days. What happened to the Jews was genocide, what happened in Rwanda and Cambodia was genocide this unfortunately is war instigated by Hamas. Context is everything. But in any event revenge is rarely a precursor to peace. Btw, the carpet, fire, bombing of Dresden was a terrible act of revenge, one arguably did nothing to shorten the war which was already in its final months from conclusion. Dresden was not revenge - it was tactical, the right target at the right time. A major manufacturing hub, a major transport hub and a target right in line with the ongoing Russian offensive. No one at the time linked it to revenge, it was seen by everyone involved (including the Germans) as a military target... |
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 19, 2023 7:41:48 GMT
via mobile
eric likes this
Post by francegas on Oct 19, 2023 7:41:48 GMT
|
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 19, 2023 9:03:51 GMT
via mobile
Post by oldie on Oct 19, 2023 9:03:51 GMT
Context is everything. But in any event revenge is rarely a precursor to peace. Btw, the carpet, fire, bombing of Dresden was a terrible act of revenge, one arguably did nothing to shorten the war which was already in its final months from conclusion. Dresden was not revenge - it was tactical, the right target at the right time. A major manufacturing hub, a major transport hub and a target right in line with the ongoing Russian offensive. No one at the time linked it to revenge, it was seen by everyone involved (including the Germans) as a military target... Emmmmm..... "Before World War II, Dresden was called “Florence on the Elbe” and was considered one of the world’s most beautiful cities because of its architecture and art treasures. Having never previously been attacked in the war, the city offered increased value for terror bombing against an inexperienced population. On the night of February 13, the British Bomber Command hit Dresden with an 800-bomber air raid, dropping some 2,700 tons of bombs, including large numbers of incendiaries. Aided by weather conditions, a firestorm developed, incinerating tens of thousands of people. The U.S. Eighth Air Force followed the next day with another 400 tons of bombs and carried out yet another raid by 210 bombers on February 15. It is thought that some 25,000–35,000 civilians died in Dresden in the air attacks, though some estimates are as high as 250,000, given the influx of undocumented refugees that had fled to Dresden from the Eastern Front. Most of the victims were women, children, and the elderly." Military targets eh? |
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 19, 2023 10:55:05 GMT
Post by supergas on Oct 19, 2023 10:55:05 GMT
Dresden was not revenge - it was tactical, the right target at the right time. A major manufacturing hub, a major transport hub and a target right in line with the ongoing Russian offensive. No one at the time linked it to revenge, it was seen by everyone involved (including the Germans) as a military target... Emmmmm..... "Before World War II, Dresden was called “Florence on the Elbe” and was considered one of the world’s most beautiful cities because of its architecture and art treasures. Having never previously been attacked in the war, the city offered increased value for terror bombing against an inexperienced population. On the night of February 13, the British Bomber Command hit Dresden with an 800-bomber air raid, dropping some 2,700 tons of bombs, including large numbers of incendiaries. Aided by weather conditions, a firestorm developed, incinerating tens of thousands of people. The U.S. Eighth Air Force followed the next day with another 400 tons of bombs and carried out yet another raid by 210 bombers on February 15. It is thought that some 25,000–35,000 civilians died in Dresden in the air attacks, though some estimates are as high as 250,000, given the influx of undocumented refugees that had fled to Dresden from the Eastern Front. Most of the victims were women, children, and the elderly." Military targets eh? ...are you genuinely taking the Encyclopedia Britanica as gospel truth? |
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 19, 2023 11:37:21 GMT
via mobile
Post by oldie on Oct 19, 2023 11:37:21 GMT
Emmmmm..... "Before World War II, Dresden was called “Florence on the Elbe” and was considered one of the world’s most beautiful cities because of its architecture and art treasures. Having never previously been attacked in the war, the city offered increased value for terror bombing against an inexperienced population. On the night of February 13, the British Bomber Command hit Dresden with an 800-bomber air raid, dropping some 2,700 tons of bombs, including large numbers of incendiaries. Aided by weather conditions, a firestorm developed, incinerating tens of thousands of people. The U.S. Eighth Air Force followed the next day with another 400 tons of bombs and carried out yet another raid by 210 bombers on February 15. It is thought that some 25,000–35,000 civilians died in Dresden in the air attacks, though some estimates are as high as 250,000, given the influx of undocumented refugees that had fled to Dresden from the Eastern Front. Most of the victims were women, children, and the elderly." Military targets eh? ...are you genuinely taking the Encyclopedia Britanica as gospel truth? Not necessarily, perhaps you could quote an alternative narrative? The quote I gave (out of multiple choices, all pretty much saying the same thing) backed my own opinion formed many years ago as this has been widely discussed, not least because of the role played by "Bomber Harris" and the debate over his legacy Happy to be corrected, but just point attacking the source without justification is no argument |
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 19, 2023 11:52:02 GMT
Post by supergas on Oct 19, 2023 11:52:02 GMT
|
|
stuart1974
Proper Gas
Posts: 12,546
Member is Online
|
Post by stuart1974 on Oct 19, 2023 12:17:25 GMT
Just to clarify, Dresden was militarily significant, was not vengeance (Coventry was years before) and figures of 200,000 deaths are exaggerated.
|
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 19, 2023 12:41:09 GMT
Post by langrover on Oct 19, 2023 12:41:09 GMT
Dresden did have some relevance – it was a transportation hub and had factories contributing to the war effort. But the scale of devastation clearly went beyond strategic bombing. The debate about whether it was justified is complex. For instance, some argue it was meant to demoralize the German population or to showcase Allied strength to the Soviets. Still, regardless of the military significance, the loss of civilian life and cultural heritage was tragic.
|
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 19, 2023 12:57:55 GMT
via mobile
Post by oldie on Oct 19, 2023 12:57:55 GMT
Dresden did have some relevance – it was a transportation hub and had factories contributing to the war effort. But the scale of devastation clearly went beyond strategic bombing. The debate about whether it was justified is complex. For instance, some argue it was meant to demoralize the German population or to showcase Allied strength to the Soviets. Still, regardless of the military significance, the loss of civilian life and cultural heritage was tragic. Agreed |
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 19, 2023 12:59:02 GMT
via mobile
Post by oldie on Oct 19, 2023 12:59:02 GMT
Just to clarify, Dresden was militarily significant, was not vengeance (Coventry was years before) and figures of 200,000 deaths are exaggerated. Ok. So what is an acceptable level of civilian casualties when undertaking a carpet bombing campaign |
|
|
|
Post by trevorgas on Oct 19, 2023 14:05:37 GMT
Just to clarify, Dresden was militarily significant, was not vengeance (Coventry was years before) and figures of 200,000 deaths are exaggerated. Ok. So what is an acceptable level of civilian casualties when undertaking a carpet bombing campaign Much as I admire your comments Les,I have to say that arguments over Dresden etc are not relevant,you cannot look at WW2 through the prism of 21st Century morality and ethics. It was total all out war and being relived by a generation that had seen the "war to end wars" end only 20 years earlier, Germany if they could would have eliminated this Country, ethnically cleansed Europe as they were already doing and established a fascist European state,they had to be not only defeated but in a way unlike WW1 that would deter future aggression,I would conclude that the latter has been achieved. Most families in this country had lost members in both World Wars,the appetite to finish the job completely in 1945 with as few British casualties as possible was palpable,my Dad was a 19 yr old Omaha beach veteran the room for who was killed on what side was not a calculation he made. |
|
pirate
Forum Legend
Posts: 19,461
|
Israel
Oct 19, 2023 14:28:04 GMT
Post by pirate on Oct 19, 2023 14:28:04 GMT
Any loss of innocent life is tragic and to be mourned, but I've already said a thorough forensic investigation into the apparent 'security failure' needs to take place and the same for the attacks. Then you individually target and punishment those responsible, but not collectively punish and terrorise an entire innocent civilian population (half of whom are children) and commit what experts conclude is "a textbook case of genocide." To become proficient at paragliding it requires roughly a minimum of 10 days of training, making it implausible for such activity to go unnoticed by Israel within Gaza as it is under constant surveillance by Israeli authorities, with air, sea, and land blockades in place and it's equally unlikely that individuals could've arrived from other countries, given Israeli control over the sea. Israel maintains an eye on Gaza's borders, walls, and even employs satellite imagery for monitoring, yet somehow Hamas managed to remarkably execute this attack for hours before any response.   Israel's 'Hannibal Code': The war criminal Netanyahu was facing significant public disapproval and weekly protests by thousands of Israelis about planned judicial reforms that critics say are a “get out of jail” card for Netanyahu (on trial for corruption). These protests are described as the "biggest domestic crisis" for Netanyahu, necessitating unity for his Zionist agenda. A convenient distraction for him as few are talking about these judicial reforms, corruption charges and jail time now. Either there was a severe breakdown in their security apparatus, or prior knowledge of the attack allowing it to happen to boost their expansionist and occupying agenda in Gaza – where they "left in 2005", but still controls air, land, and sea. There is certainly a suggestion from some that it was allowed to happen. Israeli journalist Efrat Fenigson, who served in the intelligence service of the Israel Defense Forces for 25 years, believes that to be the case , as does Phil Giraldi, a former Military Intelligence and CIA Operations Officer with experience in Europe and the Middle East. www.globalresearch.ca/is-the-gaza-israel-fighting-a-false-flag-they-let-it-happen-their-objective-is-to-wipe-gaza-off-the-map/5835310The former Prime Minister Naftali Bennett has previously said: "There will never be a peace plan with the Palestinians...I will do everything in my power to make sure they never get a state!" and the current Crime Minister Neyanyahu, reported in Israeli newspaper Haaretz, said: “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” the prime minister said at a 2019 meeting of his Likud party. “This is part of our strategy." Attachment Deleted |
|
