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Israel
Aug 19, 2024 19:55:09 GMT
Post by joefrankie on Aug 19, 2024 19:55:09 GMT
Some interesting posts on here, but the absolute bottom line is that there will never be peace while Netanyahu’s involved.
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Israel
Aug 19, 2024 22:49:53 GMT
via mobile
Post by stuart1974 on Aug 19, 2024 22:49:53 GMT
Some interesting posts on here, but the absolute bottom line is that there will never be peace while Netanyahu’s involved. Sadly I think you are right. He's been heavily involved since at least the mid 80s when he was Foreign Minister and spokesman. I wonder if the loss of his brother has affected him to the extent he's incapable of accepting peace.
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Post by William Wilson on Aug 20, 2024 16:52:26 GMT
Some interesting posts on here, but the absolute bottom line is that there will never be peace while Netanyahu’s involved. Not the absolute bottom line. If Netanyahu disappeared but Hamas remained, another Netanyahu would take his place. Similarly, if Hamas disappeared but Netanyahu remained, another Hamas would take their place. Needs calmer heads on both sides. Will this happen? Doubtful. Wouldn`t mind betting, that if you could see 100 years into the future, you`d find an irradiated wasteland.
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Israel
Aug 20, 2024 22:00:59 GMT
Post by joefrankie on Aug 20, 2024 22:00:59 GMT
Some interesting posts on here, but the absolute bottom line is that there will never be peace while Netanyahu’s involved. Not the absolute bottom line. If Netanyahu disappeared but Hamas remained, another Netanyahu would take his place. Similarly, if Hamas disappeared but Netanyahu remained, another Hamas would take their place. Needs calmer heads on both sides. Will this happen? Doubtful. Wouldn`t mind betting, that if you could see 100 years into the future, you`d find an irradiated wasteland. You don’t seem to be contradicting my view my view that there will never be peace while Netanyahu is involved. There are plenty of Israelis who support the two state solution. Israel is isolating itself more and more at the moment. If the west were to stop arming them, they may have to come to the negotiating table.
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Post by William Wilson on Aug 21, 2024 6:24:35 GMT
Not the absolute bottom line. If Netanyahu disappeared but Hamas remained, another Netanyahu would take his place. Similarly, if Hamas disappeared but Netanyahu remained, another Hamas would take their place. Needs calmer heads on both sides. Will this happen? Doubtful. Wouldn`t mind betting, that if you could see 100 years into the future, you`d find an irradiated wasteland. You don’t seem to be contradicting my view my view that there will never be peace while Netanyahu is involved. There are plenty of Israelis who support the two state solution. Israel is isolating itself more and more at the moment. If the west were to stop arming them, they may have to come to the negotiating table. How many Palestinians support the two state solution? And if Iran were to stop arming them, maybe they would have to come to the negotiating table. I know you`re a Celtic fan, but at least acknowledge that there are two sides to all of this.
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Israel
Aug 21, 2024 10:58:18 GMT
Post by supergas on Aug 21, 2024 10:58:18 GMT
You don’t seem to be contradicting my view my view that there will never be peace while Netanyahu is involved. There are plenty of Israelis who support the two state solution. Israel is isolating itself more and more at the moment. If the west were to stop arming them, they may have to come to the negotiating table. How many Palestinians support the two state solution? And if Iran were to stop arming them, maybe they would have to come to the negotiating table. I know you`re a Celtic fan, but at least acknowledge that there are two sides to all of this. Pie-in-the-sky idea, but what the West Bank and Gaza needs is free and fair elections for the first time since 2006 - and whilst they weren't free and fair then either, it's long overdue that actual Palestinians were asked who they want to lead them...
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Israel
Aug 21, 2024 12:00:43 GMT
via mobile
Post by stuart1974 on Aug 21, 2024 12:00:43 GMT
How many Palestinians support the two state solution? And if Iran were to stop arming them, maybe they would have to come to the negotiating table. I know you`re a Celtic fan, but at least acknowledge that there are two sides to all of this. Pie-in-the-sky idea, but what the West Bank and Gaza needs is free and fair elections for the first time since 2006 - and whilst they weren't free and fair then either, it's long overdue that actual Palestinians were asked who they want to lead them... How about a 4 state solution. Isreal and the West Bank as sovereign nations, Gaza as an Arab League Protectorate and a Vatican City-esque Jerusalem shared equally between Judaism, Islam and Christianity.
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Israel
Aug 21, 2024 12:45:33 GMT
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Post by francegas on Aug 21, 2024 12:45:33 GMT
I read somewhere that Israel agreed to 93% of the Palestinian demands for a two state solution and still the Palestinians would not agree to terms. It may have been during the Oslo accords.
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Post by joefrankie on Aug 21, 2024 15:05:55 GMT
You don’t seem to be contradicting my view my view that there will never be peace while Netanyahu is involved. There are plenty of Israelis who support the two state solution. Israel is isolating itself more and more at the moment. If the west were to stop arming them, they may have to come to the negotiating table. How many Palestinians support the two state solution? And if Iran were to stop arming them, maybe they would have to come to the negotiating table. I know you`re a Celtic fan, but at least acknowledge that there are two sides to all of this. I totally acknowledge there are two sides to this. There shouldn't be, but in their wisdom, the West decided to create the artificial state of Israel in 1948. There should only be one country; Palestine. The reality is that that will never happen, so the best we can hope for is a two state solution with agreed borders. There are plenty who agree with this on both sides, but unfortunately their voices are not being heard. With regards to Netanyahu, he won't allow the war to finish, because that would mean he's finished. He's despised by most Israelis and will almost certainly end up in prison for corruption as soon as he is no longer Prime Minister.
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Israel
Aug 22, 2024 5:55:25 GMT
Post by William Wilson on Aug 22, 2024 5:55:25 GMT
How many Palestinians support the two state solution? And if Iran were to stop arming them, maybe they would have to come to the negotiating table. I know you`re a Celtic fan, but at least acknowledge that there are two sides to all of this. Pie-in-the-sky idea, but what the West Bank and Gaza needs is free and fair elections for the first time since 2006 - and whilst they weren't free and fair then either, it's long overdue that actual Palestinians were asked who they want to lead them... Gazan democracy. One man, one vote. Once.
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Israel
Aug 22, 2024 9:19:31 GMT
Post by William Wilson on Aug 22, 2024 9:19:31 GMT
I read somewhere that Israel agreed to 93% of the Palestinian demands for a two state solution and still the Palestinians would not agree to terms. It may have been during the Oslo accords. Bill Clinton, from the Clinton Foundation website, talking about Yasser Arafat, a Palestinian state, and the Oslo Accords. "I regret that in 2000 he missed the opportunity to bring that nation into being, and pray for the day when the dreams of the Palestinian people for a state and a better life, will be realized in a just and lasting peace."
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Israel
Aug 22, 2024 9:45:14 GMT
Post by William Wilson on Aug 22, 2024 9:45:14 GMT
Pie-in-the-sky idea, but what the West Bank and Gaza needs is free and fair elections for the first time since 2006 - and whilst they weren't free and fair then either, it's long overdue that actual Palestinians were asked who they want to lead them... How about a 4 state solution. Isreal and the West Bank as sovereign nations, Gaza as an Arab League Protectorate and a Vatican City-esque Jerusalem shared equally between Judaism, Islam and Christianity. Sounds fair enough to me, Stuart, but isn`t this ( roughly ) what the UN envisaged in 1947? The Jews were happy with this at the time; the Arabs somewhat less so. I can`t see either side agreeing to this now. I especially can`t see the Israelis ever agreeing to go back to pre 1967 borders, let alone 1948.
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Israel
Aug 22, 2024 10:07:56 GMT
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 22, 2024 10:07:56 GMT
How about a 4 state solution. Isreal and the West Bank as sovereign nations, Gaza as an Arab League Protectorate and a Vatican City-esque Jerusalem shared equally between Judaism, Islam and Christianity. Sounds fair enough to me, Stuart, but isn`t this ( roughly ) what the UN envisaged in 1947? The Jews were happy with this at the time; the Arabs somewhat less so. I can`t see either side agreeing to this now. I especially can`t see the Israelis ever agreeing to go back to pre 1967 borders, let alone 1948. Agree, can't see that happening.
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Post by William Wilson on Aug 22, 2024 10:39:24 GMT
How many Palestinians support the two state solution? And if Iran were to stop arming them, maybe they would have to come to the negotiating table. I know you`re a Celtic fan, but at least acknowledge that there are two sides to all of this. I totally acknowledge there are two sides to this. There shouldn't be, but in their wisdom, the West decided to create the artificial state of Israel in 1948. There should only be one country; Palestine. The reality is that that will never happen, so the best we can hope for is a two state solution with agreed borders. There are plenty who agree with this on both sides, but unfortunately their voices are not being heard. The world was very different in 1948. "In their wisdom", the West decided that 20 centuries of prejudice, persecution and pogroms, ( culminating in the Nazis` recent attempt to exterminate the entire race ) were enough, and that the Jews should finally have somewhere where they could live in safety. Rightly or wrongly, that was the thinking behind it all. At the time, there was already a large Jewish presence in Palestine, and the UN attempted to draw up borders, reflecting those different population centres. Also, at the back of it`s mind, the West might well have considered the fact that the Jews would be returning to a land, from which they themselves had once been expelled. Who knows? With the benefit of 75 years of hindsight, maybe the UN would have acted differently. On the other hand, with the benefit of those same 75 years of hindsight, maybe the Arabs would have left well alone, and settled for a far smaller state of Israel, then the one we have now. A two state solution is indeed something to be hoped for. But right now, it sadly doesn`t look a realistic prospect. It`d be like locking Tommy Robinson and Anjem Choudhary in a caravan together.
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Israel
Oct 1, 2024 17:08:42 GMT
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Post by francegas on Oct 1, 2024 17:08:42 GMT
Iran now launching missiles into Israel. Being reported that some 200 missiles have been launched.
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Post by gashead79 on Oct 4, 2024 14:43:37 GMT
That's about to kick off big time. You were correct.
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Israel
Oct 6, 2024 18:00:13 GMT
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Post by baggins on Oct 6, 2024 18:00:13 GMT
Think I've just heard that Iraq will also start firing into Israel. Israel is strong militarily, with US backing (although I can't see them really wanting to join in), so that's now Israel in Gaza, Lebanon, up against Hezbola, Iran & Iraq.
This isn't going to end well.
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Israel
Oct 6, 2024 19:24:06 GMT
via mobile
Post by stuart1974 on Oct 6, 2024 19:24:06 GMT
Think I've just heard that Iraq will also start firing into Israel. Israel is strong militarily, with US backing (although I can't see them really wanting to join in), so that's now Israel in Gaza, Lebanon, up against Hezbola, Iran & Iraq. This isn't going to end well. Iraqi militia groups rather than Iraq itself?
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Israel
Oct 6, 2024 19:34:57 GMT
via mobile
Post by baggins on Oct 6, 2024 19:34:57 GMT
Think I've just heard that Iraq will also start firing into Israel. Israel is strong militarily, with US backing (although I can't see them really wanting to join in), so that's now Israel in Gaza, Lebanon, up against Hezbola, Iran & Iraq. This isn't going to end well. Iraqi militia groups rather than Iraq itself? No idea, caught it on the news over here that Iraq has said it will crush Israel.
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Post by francegas on Oct 7, 2024 15:11:53 GMT
IF you can stomache it have a watch of "The Killing Roads" on YouTube. It's 2hrs long and be warned it's very graphic, disturbing, upsetting etc. It follows live footage of the events last year in Israel. I hope those girls displaying banners over the weekend of Hezbollah aren't terrorists and I love Hezbollah have a watch, it may just change their view of terrorist organisations in general.
No wonder Israel has reached its tipping point and won't stop until Hamas are wiped out.
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