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Post by bidefordgas on Jun 14, 2024 9:59:52 GMT
You’re clearly forgetting the 39 Juventus football supporters killed at Heysel by Liverpool supporters. I take issue with that, sorry. I'm no Liverpool supporter but there's many things to consider regarding this disaster. Without taking any responsibility away from supporters fighting (Liverpool and Juventus fans), the stadium wasn't fit for purpose and the policing/stewarding/allocation arrangements presented a situation where serious disorder in a crumbling stadium was a tragedy waiting to happen. The narrative that one teams supporters killed another's isn't helpful, and absolves responsibility for the conditions and safety of venues for anyone attending events. Likewise the Hillsborough disaster, unless you agree with the poster that the police killed the 97. |
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Post by popuppirate on Jun 14, 2024 10:55:31 GMT
I take issue with that, sorry. I'm no Liverpool supporter but there's many things to consider regarding this disaster. Without taking any responsibility away from supporters fighting (Liverpool and Juventus fans), the stadium wasn't fit for purpose and the policing/stewarding/allocation arrangements presented a situation where serious disorder in a crumbling stadium was a tragedy waiting to happen. The narrative that one teams supporters killed another's isn't helpful, and absolves responsibility for the conditions and safety of venues for anyone attending events. Likewise the Hillsborough disaster, unless you agree with the poster that the police killed the 97. Contributed to the causes of the deaths, then attempted to cover it up for decades would be my choice. It's the provocative statements I object to, urban myths and blatant lies that don't help anyone or anything as we'll all get tarred with the same brush as football supporters. Let's not forget Belgian stadium officials were charged with negligence, and that stadium safety certificates failed. Disasters like this, and also Bradford a few weeks earlier, were ultimately the responsibility of football authorities treating supporters with contempt and subjecting them to death traps as venues. |
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Post by gasify on Jun 14, 2024 20:13:34 GMT
Likewise the Hillsborough disaster, unless you agree with the poster that the police killed the 97. Contributed to the causes of the deaths, then attempted to cover it up for decades would be my choice. It's the provocative statements I object to, urban myths and blatant lies that don't help anyone or anything as we'll all get tarred with the same brush as football supporters. Let's not forget Belgian stadium officials were charged with negligence, and that stadium safety certificates failed. Disasters like this, and also Bradford a few weeks earlier, were ultimately the responsibility of football authorities treating supporters with contempt and subjecting them to death traps as venues. We don't really know if the wall at Heysel would have collapsed if the fighting between the two sets of fans hadn't happened. 14 Liverpool fans were convicted of Manslaughter. We saw Wembley get rushed for the Euro final, that was disgraceful. Football fans should look at their own behaviour as well as point the finger. |
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Post by popuppirate on Jun 14, 2024 21:20:20 GMT
Contributed to the causes of the deaths, then attempted to cover it up for decades would be my choice. It's the provocative statements I object to, urban myths and blatant lies that don't help anyone or anything as we'll all get tarred with the same brush as football supporters. Let's not forget Belgian stadium officials were charged with negligence, and that stadium safety certificates failed. Disasters like this, and also Bradford a few weeks earlier, were ultimately the responsibility of football authorities treating supporters with contempt and subjecting them to death traps as venues. We don't really know if the wall at Heysel would have collapsed if the fighting between the two sets of fans hadn't happened. 14 Liverpool fans were convicted of Manslaughter. We saw Wembley get rushed for the Euro final, that was disgraceful. Football fans should look at their own behaviour as well as point the finger. The fans shouldn't be fighting, there's no question about that, but as Bradford had proved, unfit for purpose venues and incompetent managing of an event lead to circumstances that should not have been able to occur. Whether it's a cigarette butt, fans charging or any other predictable scenario, facilities shouldn't crumble, trap and burn paying customers. It is as simple and obvious as that. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Jun 14, 2024 21:26:44 GMT
When Rovers try and improve the Mem we've got the Greens etc worried that we might kill the odd tree!
I think most of us will agree the new stand looks far safer for fans than the old tents.
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Post by gasify on Jun 15, 2024 7:14:31 GMT
We don't really know if the wall at Heysel would have collapsed if the fighting between the two sets of fans hadn't happened. 14 Liverpool fans were convicted of Manslaughter. We saw Wembley get rushed for the Euro final, that was disgraceful. Football fans should look at their own behaviour as well as point the finger. The fans shouldn't be fighting, there's no question about that, but as Bradford had proved, unfit for purpose venues and incompetent managing of an event lead to circumstances that should not have been able to occur. Whether it's a cigarette butt, fans charging or any other predictable scenario, facilities shouldn't crumble, trap and burn paying customers. It is as simple and obvious as that. We will have to agree to disagree on this. Only Bradford did I think that fans weren't to blame and it was completely the authorities letting people down. Fans have to be responsible too. Now we have no smoking stadiums, yet fans do ignore that when it comes to vaping. A badly made imported vape could hit the ground and incinerate. I'm sure some fans would blame the authorities for not kicking out those who chose to vape at the football. Ironically, it's probably the same fans that would complain if those fans were vaping that they then got kicked out. As I said in a previous post, fans do have some responsibility. Hillsborough may not have happened if the fans hadn't been caged in like animals. Why were they? As a direct result of some fans bad behaviour. You only have to look at how fans see the SAG. We don't respect them and see them as there for our protection, we see them as our enemy. We wrongly say that they have reduced capacity for our safety (myth 1) and that they removed the ability to stand at pitch level (myth 2) and that isn't fair on the kids. The SAG are there to protect us and to do all those risk assessments that you rightly questioned should have happened at Heysel. |
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Post by rememberhalifax on Jun 15, 2024 7:40:04 GMT
Some of the cases mentioned here are very emotive subjects and I am loathe to get involved ,having said that I find myself very much agreeing with the sentiments expressed by gasify in the respect of fans behaviour. Why it is deemed acceptable for football fans to behave in a way that would not be permitted at any other public event is a mystery , every club has a percentage of these fans who spoil the experience for many others and when there behaviour leads to tragedy involving innocent people they look for someone else to blame, as for the subject of the OP, I can enjoy the gallows humour on here BUT drugs are a menace in all walks of society and destroy lives, relationships, and lead to many a tragedy, to indulge is not a good idea and those that supply and inflict the misery on vulnerable people deserve the harshest of punishments, just M.H.O. of course , off soap box now!
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Post by gasify on Jun 15, 2024 9:12:39 GMT
Some of the cases mentioned here are very emotive subjects and I am loathe to get involved ,having said that I find myself very much agreeing with the sentiments expressed by gasify in the respect of fans behaviour. Why it is deemed acceptable for football fans to behave in a way that would not be permitted at any other public event is a mystery , every club has a percentage of these fans who spoil the experience for many others and when there behaviour leads to tragedy involving innocent people they look for someone else to blame, as for the subject of the OP, I can enjoy the gallows humour on here BUT drugs are a menace in all walks of society and destroy lives, relationships, and lead to many a tragedy, to indulge is not a good idea and those that supply and inflict the misery on vulnerable people deserve the harshest of punishments, just M.H.O. of course , off soap box now! Completely agree with this, I would also (controversially) include alcohol as a drug and menace in all walks of society. |
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Post by Congas on Jun 15, 2024 9:36:31 GMT
Look at that photo ….. don’t do drugs kids . A photoshopped respectable member of the community |
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Post by Gasshole on Jun 17, 2024 3:11:11 GMT
Who’s our new Dealer…..asking for a friend.
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Jun 18, 2024 9:40:25 GMT
Who’s our new Dealer…..asking for a friend.  |
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stuart1974
Proper Gas
Posts: 12,550 
Member is Online
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 18, 2024 10:03:50 GMT
"Higher, Higher." has a different ring to it now.😜 |
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