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Post by aghast on Feb 13, 2016 20:33:20 GMT
I'd rather see Corbyn in charge of what is supposed to be a party of the people, supporting the rights of the working class and being an Internationalist, than the other pseudo-Tory candidates up for election as Labour leader. But he'll never win an election.
Apparently many Tories have the view that Cameron is a lily-livered pseudo-Social Democrat who is selling out true Conservative principles just to win elections.
So if you want a party in power who reflects your political beliefs - tough.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Feb 13, 2016 22:25:29 GMT
I'd rather see Corbyn in charge of what is supposed to be a party of the people, supporting the rights of the working class and being an Internationalist, than the other pseudo-Tory candidates up for election as Labour leader. But he'll never win an election. Apparently many Tories have the view that Cameron is a lily-livered pseudo-Social Democrat who is selling out true Conservative principles just to win elections. So if you want a party in power who reflects your political beliefs - tough. I'm an old socialist by nature but it rarely transfers well to real life. Corbyn is a loon and has no concept of the real world and what it means to have to compromise your principles sometimes to achieve a mutually beneficial outcome that 2 sides can live with. His position on trident is madness. You can't take a white flag to a Mexican stand off. |
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Post by jaggas on Feb 13, 2016 22:53:11 GMT
I'd rather see Corbyn in charge of what is supposed to be a party of the people, supporting the rights of the working class and being an Internationalist, than the other pseudo-Tory candidates up for election as Labour leader. But he'll never win an election. Apparently many Tories have the view that Cameron is a lily-livered pseudo-Social Democrat who is selling out true Conservative principles just to win elections. So if you want a party in power who reflects your political beliefs - tough. There is UKIP. |
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Post by aghast on Feb 14, 2016 12:59:58 GMT
I'd rather see Corbyn in charge of what is supposed to be a party of the people, supporting the rights of the working class and being an Internationalist, than the other pseudo-Tory candidates up for election as Labour leader. But he'll never win an election. Apparently many Tories have the view that Cameron is a lily-livered pseudo-Social Democrat who is selling out true Conservative principles just to win elections. So if you want a party in power who reflects your political beliefs - tough. There is UKIP. Well they're not my cup of tea, but I admire their honesty and success in the polls. Unfortunately the general election just confirmed what I said about being in power. UKIP had 13% of the votes but just one MP. Maybe if they watered down their strong views and had a boring bland leader, they'd be more successful at the ballot box. But then they'd be as hypocritical as the other parties. |
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Post by inee on Feb 14, 2016 17:48:09 GMT
Well they're not my cup of tea, but I admire their honesty and success in the polls. Unfortunately the general election just confirmed what I said about being in power. UKIP had 13% of the votes but just one MP. Maybe if they watered down their strong views and had a boring bland leader, they'd be more successful at the ballot box. But then they'd be as hypocritical as the other parties. Or even better ,how about if more people actually looked into the policies, rather than just believing the party is racist because some pri ck opponent and the press say so, same with the greens most people who vote green do so because they think they will be an eco friendly party , but if they read the manifesto they would realise that they are more dangerous than the bastard offspring of stallin and genghis khan |
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Post by supergas on Feb 15, 2016 2:57:25 GMT
I'd rather see Corbyn in charge of what is supposed to be a party of the people, supporting the rights of the working class and being an Internationalist, than the other pseudo-Tory candidates up for election as Labour leader. But he'll never win an election. Apparently many Tories have the view that Cameron is a lily-livered pseudo-Social Democrat who is selling out true Conservative principles just to win elections. So if you want a party in power who reflects your political beliefs - tough. I'm an old socialist by nature but it rarely transfers well to real life. Corbyn is a loon and has no concept of the real world and what it means to have to compromise your principles sometimes to achieve a mutually beneficial outcome that 2 sides can live with. His position on trident is madness. You can't take a white flag to a Mexican stand off.You can, but it normally ends badly... I found this to be a good read today: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35371074basically a shory summary of why Labour always opposes nuclear weapons when it's not in power but fully supports them when it is....may be a rare example of politicians actually being right when it matters....? |
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 15, 2016 9:37:07 GMT
I have a grudging respect for JC and other conviction politicians even though I disagree with most of his views, at least he is consistent and genuinely believes what he says. However the real world is not like that and will only appeal to a minority group (whichever end of the spectrum they are from).
To get elected you have to appeal to the broad electorate and to do that you have to compromise somewhere.
Returning to the theme, I wonder how things would have panned out had Labour won in 1992? I recall many thinking it was the election that was good to lose due to the economic issues that followed. I'm guessing the heir apparent in Michael Portillo would have become leader without the humility he gained from losing his seat in 1997 and Labour may have returned to the Left as John Smith's credibility as Chancellor would have been in tatters.
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Post by supergas on Feb 17, 2016 1:14:35 GMT
I have a grudging respect for JC and other conviction politicians even though I disagree with most of his views, at least he is consistent and genuinely believes what he says. However the real world is not like that and will only appeal to a minority group (whichever end of the spectrum they are from). To get elected you have to appeal to the broad electorate and to do that you have to compromise somewhere. Returning to the theme, I wonder how things would have panned out had Labour won in 1992? I recall many thinking it was the election that was good to lose due to the economic issues that followed. I'm guessing the heir apparent in Michael Portillo would have become leader without the humility he gained from losing his seat in 1997 and Labour may have returned to the Left as John Smith's credibility as Chancellor would have been in tatters. I can't have too much respect for a man who i) never wanted the job, ii) who's initial supporters (the MPs who nominated him) actually never wanted him to have the job and iii) turns out to be massively incompetent doing the job... My biggest problem is that he's not holding Cameron and the Tories to account properly. PMQ's are becoming nonsense (what leader of the opposition doesn't bring up the junior doctor's contract in the week of the second junior doctor's strike?) And I'm saying this as a Conservative supporter! He's making Cameron look 'dictatorial' and 'unaccountable' not because he is, just because the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition is somehow looking the other way on the big issues of the day. Also, I see your point regarding 1992 but because Kinnock lost it meant we had 5 more years of Conservative Government and then 13 years of Conservative-lite Government. Happily take that any day over any length of time with Kinnock as Prime Minister... |
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 17, 2016 8:30:38 GMT
I have a grudging respect for JC and other conviction politicians even though I disagree with most of his views, at least he is consistent and genuinely believes what he says. However the real world is not like that and will only appeal to a minority group (whichever end of the spectrum they are from). To get elected you have to appeal to the broad electorate and to do that you have to compromise somewhere. Returning to the theme, I wonder how things would have panned out had Labour won in 1992? I recall many thinking it was the election that was good to lose due to the economic issues that followed. I'm guessing the heir apparent in Michael Portillo would have become leader without the humility he gained from losing his seat in 1997 and Labour may have returned to the Left as John Smith's credibility as Chancellor would have been in tatters. I can't have too much respect for a man who i) never wanted the job, ii) who's initial supporters (the MPs who nominated him) actually never wanted him to have the job and iii) turns out to be massively incompetent doing the job... My biggest problem is that he's not holding Cameron and the Tories to account properly. PMQ's are becoming nonsense (what leader of the opposition doesn't bring up the junior doctor's contract in the week of the second junior doctor's strike?) And I'm saying this as a Conservative supporter! He's making Cameron look 'dictatorial' and 'unaccountable' not because he is, just because the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition is somehow looking the other way on the big issues of the day. Also, I see your point regarding 1992 but because Kinnock lost it meant we had 5 more years of Conservative Government and then 13 years of Conservative-lite Government. Happily take that any day over any length of time with Kinnock as Prime Minister... When I said grudging respect I meant as a backbencher and conviction politicians in general. As a leader I agree he is letting the PM off the hook too much. We need a strong leader of the Opposition who can hold the Government to account, the LibDems are recovering and the. SNP have different motives anyway. I see Cameron as a fairly middle of the road leader but had we someone with strong right or left views then it could be dangerous. JC reminds me of someone promoted above their abilities and who hasn't really changed since his Sixth Form debating society days. My hope is that he will stand down in the next year or two for a more credible leader, who that is I don't know yet. |
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Post by supergas on Feb 18, 2016 10:01:42 GMT
I can't have too much respect for a man who i) never wanted the job, ii) who's initial supporters (the MPs who nominated him) actually never wanted him to have the job and iii) turns out to be massively incompetent doing the job... My biggest problem is that he's not holding Cameron and the Tories to account properly. PMQ's are becoming nonsense (what leader of the opposition doesn't bring up the junior doctor's contract in the week of the second junior doctor's strike?) And I'm saying this as a Conservative supporter! He's making Cameron look 'dictatorial' and 'unaccountable' not because he is, just because the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition is somehow looking the other way on the big issues of the day. Also, I see your point regarding 1992 but because Kinnock lost it meant we had 5 more years of Conservative Government and then 13 years of Conservative-lite Government. Happily take that any day over any length of time with Kinnock as Prime Minister... When I said grudging respect I meant as a backbencher and conviction politicians in general. As a leader I agree he is letting the PM off the hook too much. We need a strong leader of the Opposition who can hold the Government to account, the LibDems are recovering and the. SNP have different motives anyway. I see Cameron as a fairly middle of the road leader but had we someone with strong right or left views then it could be dangerous. JC reminds me of someone promoted above their abilities and who hasn't really changed since his Sixth Form debating society days. My hope is that he will stand down in the next year or two for a more credible leader, who that is I don't know yet.  |
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