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Post by bs9trymer on Apr 2, 2016 10:40:57 GMT
As I said Brighton have a huge catchment area,look at a map,its most of Sussex and half of Kent...not competing for support in a city like Rovers are. I went to Brighton boxing day 77,crowd 25,500 ( and Rovers didn't even take the 500) up until then that seasons lowest attendance at the Goldstone was 18,976 against Cambridge in the league cup 1st round on a Tuesday night!,what were Rovers getting at home that season ?,have a look. 16,000 in the first season at the uwe...you have nothing to base that figure on,like I said originally 'hope and fantasy', come on get real. So a similar attendance to got in the mid 70's? Whilst they have a big catchment area on a map is it really bigger in terms of population? We've got Bristol, Bath, Somerset & Glos even across the bridge into Gwent to pull in fans. Brighton, Swansea & Reading prove that a successful team will bring in the fans, who'd have thought during our relegation season we'd be ending this season with home attendances regularly over 9,000?? Can you remind me of some of those 'similar attendances' from the mid 70s?,apart from the derby games a couple of cup and league cup games I don't remember many good crowds,there was only 19,000 there for Man Utd and that was a bank holiday!! but you probably remember better than me. Yes the population of Brightons catchment area is bigger than Bristol ( which Rovers share with city !). The other counties that you mention are shared with Yeovil,Cheltenham ( and FGR) and Newport.. Yes I agree that successful teams get better crowds,thats astounding isn't it ?....but that isn't what was suggested earlier in the thread,that crowds will come because theres a new stadium.. Even with the news that a couple of carloads will be coming from Chippenham I don't see the need for a huge stadium,but I am looking at facts not fantasy.
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35,000 ?
Apr 2, 2016 10:46:13 GMT
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Post by youmadethatup on Apr 2, 2016 10:46:13 GMT
With the exception of Darlington whose stadium was too big for the locality really (equiv of city and rovers building 100,000 stadiums each) most stadiums have been successful. After Brighton left the Goldstone the following year they finished 23rd in league two playing in front of an average of 2329 at Gillingham !. It's hard to compare as BRFC were in higher divisions when out at bath fortunately.A crumbling goldstone and a crumbling eastville had comparative sized crowds when at the same levels. Brighton did go from winning league one in front of 7352 Ave. To midtable championship at the new stadium with an Ave of 20,028 . They started with a 22,000 stadium but increased its size twice in a few years to its current 30,000 ish level. Brighton and it's conurbations is a big area but other clubs do also compete for fans in the sussex and Kent areas. No different than saying Bristol clubs had Somerset,Gloucestershire,Monmouthshire,Gwent to draw from WHEN no serious competition is there. Don't get me wrong I have always thought Brighton had big potential and also Southend could do much better. The same pressures on income exist for every person across the nation so to think Bristol would be special in stopping fans seems strange.
On a side note ,am I right in thinking that BRFC and Morecambe are the only football league clubs with uncovered terrace on the side of the pitch ? And that only a few other clubs have uncovered terrace at all...Exeter, Accrington,Dagenham and Carlisle....any more ? York moving to a new stadium.Most of those could rectify moderately cheaply...Carlisle being the exception.
Just build it !
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Post by lpgas on Apr 2, 2016 10:46:15 GMT
Lots of fans in Weston, Before here I lived in London, a fair few there and before that Frome, and a quite a few there. You cannot compare what we get now to what we would get in a new ground. I know quite a few that wont go to the Me m if it looks like it is going to rain, or they cannot stand for a long period. I think we will get much bigger crowds because it is a "new" stadium. If we had redeveloped the Mem I don't think we would get much more than we get now.
Plus as proved recently, people will watch a winning team. That's why City's crowds are lower this season then they were last season. The are supplemented this year by bigger away crowds
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Post by pucklegas on Apr 2, 2016 10:52:47 GMT
Think we have a lot of fans who would attend if given a better environment to watch football, plus the UWE students, and floating supporters, having trolled one twat in Bristol, they are worried that we might overtake their fan base. I don't care about that having watched the Gas for 43 years I am clinging onto the roller coaster and will enjoy every minute, not worried about their plight. Boom boom boom everyone sing Wael, Wael!
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35,000 ?
Apr 2, 2016 11:12:49 GMT
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Post by chippenhamgas on Apr 2, 2016 11:12:49 GMT
So a similar attendance to got in the mid 70's? Whilst they have a big catchment area on a map is it really bigger in terms of population? We've got Bristol, Bath, Somerset & Glos even across the bridge into Gwent to pull in fans. Brighton, Swansea & Reading prove that a successful team will bring in the fans, who'd have thought during our relegation season we'd be ending this season with home attendances regularly over 9,000?? Can you remind me of some of those 'similar attendances' from the mid 70s?,apart from the derby games a couple of cup and league cup games I don't remember many good crowds,there was only 19,000 there for Man Utd and that was a bank holiday!! but you probably remember better than me. Yes the population of Brightons catchment area is bigger than Bristol ( which Rovers share with city !). The other counties that you mention are shared with Yeovil,Cheltenham ( and FGR) and Newport.. Yes I agree that successful teams get better crowds,thats astounding isn't it ?....but that isn't what was suggested earlier in the thread,that crowds will come because theres a new stadium.. Even with the news that a couple of carloads will be coming from Chippenham I don't see the need for a huge stadium,but I am looking at facts not fantasy.
ok let's not bother then eh, let's stay at the mem with it's outdated facilities and stagnate. Is that what you want? Predicting that a stadium with vastly improved facilities will attract more fans is hardly an outlandish thing to suggest, is it?! Out of interest, what would be your prediction for the first season's average attendance at uwe?
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Post by phillistine on Apr 2, 2016 11:26:28 GMT
So a similar attendance to got in the mid 70's? Whilst they have a big catchment area on a map is it really bigger in terms of population? We've got Bristol, Bath, Somerset & Glos even across the bridge into Gwent to pull in fans. Brighton, Swansea & Reading prove that a successful team will bring in the fans, who'd have thought during our relegation season we'd be ending this season with home attendances regularly over 9,000?? I don't see the need for a huge stadium,but I am looking at facts not fantasy.
or perhaps you are a glass half empty type of fellow. Not sure that the new owners would have got involved if they were just happy to keep gpoing along as we have in the past.
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Post by bs9trymer on Apr 2, 2016 11:36:48 GMT
I don't see the need for a huge stadium,but I am looking at facts not fantasy.
or perhaps you are a glass half empty type of fellow. Not sure that the new owners would have got involved if they were just happy to keep gpoing along as we have in the past. Or perhaps I am the sort of fellow who remembers the first game of the season back in the 2nd division ( championship) after many years, only attracting a crowd of 14,000 ! (fact).
I don't know anything about the new owners, but didn't they try to buy Gillingham ?.
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35,000 ?
Apr 2, 2016 11:59:00 GMT
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Post by Gastroenteritis on Apr 2, 2016 11:59:00 GMT
Am I the only one who thinks that planning 35k 26k is ridiculous? It may make financial sense but from a capacity point of view I don believe we'll sell out 21000 WEEK ON WEEK even if we were pushing playoffs next season to the championship. People aren't gonna like me saying this but the sh** have more regular fans than we do, that's a fact! But they only average 15200 and the are in the championship. The only time we'll regularly sell out 21000 if we were pushing for the premiership. Dont get me wrong I would love to be stood corrected this time next season. When I started watching 21000+ was the norm I bet doctors were still proscribing cigarettes for chest infections as well. Times have changed brother.
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35,000 ?
Apr 2, 2016 12:05:58 GMT
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Post by chippenhamgas on Apr 2, 2016 12:05:58 GMT
Times have changed in the sense that years ago people used to go to watch football whatever, putting up with awful conditions to do so. These days people want decent facilities hence the majority of clubs who move to new stadiums significantly increasing support. Check out hull's attendances pre and post new stadium, between 1973-2002 not one five figure average, now averaging 25k.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2016 12:22:56 GMT
As I said Brighton have a huge catchment area,look at a map,its most of Sussex and half of Kent...not competing for support in a city like Rovers are. I went to Brighton boxing day 77,crowd 25,500 ( and Rovers didn't even take the 500) up until then that seasons lowest attendance at the Goldstone was 18,976 against Cambridge in the league cup 1st round on a Tuesday night!,what were Rovers getting at home that season ?,have a look. 16,000 in the first season at the uwe...you have nothing to base that figure on,like I said originally 'hope and fantasy', come on get real. I don't buy that about the catchment area. Even the closest parts of Kent are an hour from Brighton. I'd say a far more realistic gauge of Brighton's catchment area is Hove and East Sussex, as I'd imagine a lot of West Sussex supplies a historical support base for Pompey (far closer, historically 'bigger' club), maybe even Southampton at a stretch over Brighton. If you open our catchment to South Glos as well, its not as big an area as Brighton have to work with but its not insignificant. Certainly enough to maintain a respectable regular crowd in a 20k seater stadium. And that's without exploring the possibilities of more coming from Bath, other parts of Gloucestershire etc. Its not the end of the world as you make out.
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 2, 2016 12:28:37 GMT
I know it isn't totally comparable as we are looking at different eras and the impact of terracing too, but Eastville could hold over 30,000 yet our average post war until we left in 1986 was around 13,000 with a high point in the 1950s (24,662 in 1954). Up to 1960 we averaged around 20,000. The 1960s was between 7,000 and 12,000, 1970s was between 7,500 and 13,000 then 1980-1986 was between 4,200 and 7,000.
Twerton was around 10,000 capacity yet we had between 3,000 and 6,000 during our time there.
At the Mem we are roughly between 6,000 and 8,400.
I guess I am trying to say that even at Eastville we were around 30-40% capacity for a lot of the time.
Were we to just be building a stadium for our use once a fortnight and under the previous board I would agree that more than 15,000 would be excessive but we are in unchartered territory now for us. I for one am looking forward to what the future brings, tempered only slightly by our previous heartbreaks.
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Post by bs9trymer on Apr 2, 2016 12:47:05 GMT
As I said Brighton have a huge catchment area,look at a map,its most of Sussex and half of Kent...not competing for support in a city like Rovers are. I went to Brighton boxing day 77,crowd 25,500 ( and Rovers didn't even take the 500) up until then that seasons lowest attendance at the Goldstone was 18,976 against Cambridge in the league cup 1st round on a Tuesday night!,what were Rovers getting at home that season ?,have a look. 16,000 in the first season at the uwe...you have nothing to base that figure on,like I said originally 'hope and fantasy', come on get real. I don't buy that about the catchment area. Even the closest parts of Kent are an hour from Brighton. I'd say a far more realistic gauge of Brighton's catchment area is Hove and East Sussex, as I'd imagine a lot of West Sussex supplies a historical support base for Pompey (far closer, historically 'bigger' club), maybe even Southampton at a stretch over Brighton. If you open our catchment to South Glos as well, its not as big an area as Brighton have to work with but its not insignificant. Certainly enough to maintain a respectable regular crowd in a 20k seater stadium. And that's without exploring the possibilities of more coming from Bath, other parts of Gloucestershire etc. Its not the end of the world as you make out. Even East Sussex on its own has a population of 800,000,but the point that I am trying to make is that Brighton are the only club for miles its crazy to compare them to Rovers who are in a 2 club city. South Glos is the same as Bristol,the Rovers have to compete with city for support. I don't think that I am making anything out to be 'the end of the world',but some of the posts about the size of the stadium are laughable.
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Post by bs9trymer on Apr 2, 2016 12:49:27 GMT
I know it isn't totally comparable as we are looking at different eras and the impact of terracing too, but Eastville could hold over 30,000 yet our average post war until we left in 1986 was around 13,000 with a high point in the 1950s (24,662 in 1954). Up to 1960 we averaged around 20,000. The 1960s was between 7,000 and 12,000, 1970s was between 7,500 and 13,000 then 1980-1986 was between 4,200 and 7,000. Twerton was around 10,000 capacity yet we had between 3,000 and 6,000 during our time there. At the Mem we are roughly between 6,000 and 8,400. I guess I am trying to say that even at Eastville we were around 30-40% capacity for a lot of the time. Were we to just be building a stadium for our use once a fortnight and under the previous board I would agree that more than 15,000 would be excessive but we are in unchartered territory now for us. I for one am looking forward to what the future brings, tempered only slightly by our previous heartbreaks. An excellent post backed up with factual average attendance figures.
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yattongas
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35,000 ?
Apr 2, 2016 13:06:20 GMT
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Post by yattongas on Apr 2, 2016 13:06:20 GMT
I don't buy that about the catchment area. Even the closest parts of Kent are an hour from Brighton. I'd say a far more realistic gauge of Brighton's catchment area is Hove and East Sussex, as I'd imagine a lot of West Sussex supplies a historical support base for Pompey (far closer, historically 'bigger' club), maybe even Southampton at a stretch over Brighton. If you open our catchment to South Glos as well, its not as big an area as Brighton have to work with but its not insignificant. Certainly enough to maintain a respectable regular crowd in a 20k seater stadium. And that's without exploring the possibilities of more coming from Bath, other parts of Gloucestershire etc. Its not the end of the world as you make out. Even East Sussex on its own has a population of 800,000,but the point that I am trying to make is that Brighton are the only club for miles its crazy to compare them to Rovers who are in a 2 club city. South Glos is the same as Bristol,the Rovers have to compete with city for support. I don't think that I am making anything out to be 'the end of the world',but some of the posts about the size of the stadium are laughable.
Our new ( billionaire?) owners scoured the English leagues for a club to buy that had potential ..... And in their words the potential is "massive" at Bristol rovers. So if these multi million or even billionaires think that a 35k stadium is needed in the short to long term then I reckon they know their onions . Let's wait and see
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35,000 ?
Apr 2, 2016 13:13:33 GMT
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Post by chippenhamgas on Apr 2, 2016 13:13:33 GMT
Population of Hull is 257k, catchment area much smaller than Bristol and two rugby league teams to compete with.
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35,000 ?
Apr 2, 2016 13:16:36 GMT
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Post by Gastroenteritis on Apr 2, 2016 13:16:36 GMT
I recon a lot af last minute decisions will be made depending on whether we get promoted this season or not.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2016 13:33:18 GMT
or perhaps you are a glass half empty type of fellow. Not sure that the new owners would have got involved if they were just happy to keep gpoing along as we have in the past. Or perhaps I am the sort of fellow who remembers the first game of the season back in the 2nd division ( championship) after many years, only attracting a crowd of 14,000 ! (fact).
I don't know anything about the new owners, but didn't they try to buy Gillingham ?.
Can't you see bs9er is a head. The old "they tried to buy Gillingham first" is something they like to say, as if saying it often enough will somehow make it true.
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35,000 ?
Apr 2, 2016 13:42:46 GMT
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Post by chippenhamgas on Apr 2, 2016 13:42:46 GMT
Or perhaps I am the sort of fellow who remembers the first game of the season back in the 2nd division ( championship) after many years, only attracting a crowd of 14,000 ! (fact).
I don't know anything about the new owners, but didn't they try to buy Gillingham ?.
Can't you see bs9er is a head. The old "they tried to buy Gillingham first" is something they like to say, as if saying it often enough will somehow make it true. Been pretty obvious since he used the term 'rovers' instead of 'us', i said this earlier but was shouted down!
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35,000 ?
Apr 2, 2016 13:47:36 GMT
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Post by aghast on Apr 2, 2016 13:47:36 GMT
bs9trymer is quoting "facts" to suit his argument, which in reality are nonsense.
Brighton's large attendances in the 1970s coincided with promotion from the 3rd division, 4th places in the 2nd division, promotion to the 1st division and three seasons in the 1st division.
Historically their attendances are similar to ours.
The fact they rose so high during two periods a) when they had sustained success and b) when they built a new stadium, only supports the argument he opposes - namely that success on the pitch and a better stadium will give us a massive increase in attendance. There is no logic in suggesting that what worked for them would somehow be different for us.
The catchment area argument is also wrong. Does anyone seriously think someone in Kent is going to travel 50 miles to watch Brighton, just because they're the closest League team geographically? What they might do is hop on a train to London to watch one of the many choices of team there. Has anyone ever tried getting trains cross-country in the South-East? Basically if you're not heading to and from London, driving is the only realistic option. And the distances involved rule out most of Kent. Which leaves Sussex, many of whom in the north support Palace and in the West, Pompey.
Conjuring up convincing sounding but actually meaningless stats, to support an opinion that we, uniquely amongst big city clubs, would for some reason not fill a biggish stadium if successful.
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35,000 ?
Apr 2, 2016 14:07:16 GMT
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Post by youmadethatup on Apr 2, 2016 14:07:16 GMT
bs9trymer is quoting "facts" to suit his argument, which in reality are nonsense. Brighton's large attendances in the 1970s coincided with promotion from the 3rd division, 4th places in the 2nd division, promotion to the 1st division and three seasons in the 1st division. Historically their attendances are similar to ours. The fact they rose so high during two periods a) when they had sustained success and b) when they built a new stadium, only supports the argument he opposes - namely that success on the pitch and a better stadium will give us a massive increase in attendance. There is no logic in suggesting that what worked for them would somehow be different for us. The catchment area argument is also wrong. Does anyone seriously think someone in Kent is going to travel 50 miles to watch Brighton, just because they're the closest League team geographically? What they might do is hop on a train to London to watch one of the many choices of team there. Has anyone ever tried getting trains cross-country in the South-East? Basically if you're not heading to and from London, driving is the only realistic option. And the distances involved rule out most of Kent. Which leaves Sussex, many of whom in the north support Palace and in the West, Pompey. Conjuring up convincing sounding but actually meaningless stats, to support an opinion that we, uniquely amongst big city clubs, would for some reason not fill a biggish stadium if successful. The whole argument about Brighton being right to build a large stadium but BRFC being wrong based on catchment is strange ,as this argument clearly means that Bristol City should in no way be building a new Williams stand in the guise it will be .They should be building a much smaller stand of 5-7000 as there is no way Bristol city can fill a 27,000 cap stadium.After all at league one their best ever seasonal average is 12,818 so the stadium will be over half half empty for most seasons in league one (which they will revisit in a season or twos time no doubt) .At championship level they have averaged between 8 and 17,000 mostly nearer the 8 than the 17 since the 1950's.What with being a two club city its crazy for them to have built what they have. That of course is BS ,Bristol city should build for the future and offer a good match day experience at different prices. BRFC should do exactly the same.
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