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Post by bs9trymer on Aug 5, 2016 12:58:04 GMT
Haven't you just contradicted your point with your last sentence? We started off very poorly away from home, culminating in the disaster that was Altrincham where the team barely got to the ground in time and we were made to look a joke. No chance that would have happened if we had stayed overnight.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 12:58:25 GMT
Fair enough if MS said it, but you are then using what he said in a debate.
As I said before we stayed overnight most of the time during the relegation season where we had absolute torrid away form.
Of course it would help preparation and that can only be a good thing, but whether the benefit is worth it against the (presumably high) cost to the club I very much doubt.
Maybe the away form improved in the Conference because the quality of the opposition was that much poorer? If I remember rightly we didn't start off too well away (or home for that matter) in the conference either?
Haven't you just contradicted your point with your last sentence? We started off very poorly away from home, culminating in the disaster that was Altrincham where the team barely got to the ground in time and we were made to look a joke. No chance that would have happened if we had stayed overnight.
Not really I just put the poor start down to adjusting to a new league with new players.
Again, it helps with preparation and that can only be a good thing, but I wouldn't say its the difference between a good and bad performance.
To put a spin on it I have seen us get turned over at home by many sides who couldn't afford to stay overnight.
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 5, 2016 15:36:31 GMT
The accounts of BRFC and Dwayne Sports should give us a clue. I suspect the debt and the stadium is held by the latter. It's better to have "internal" debt obviously as the owners decide if and when it's repaid. Also, it is possible that the previous debt has disappeared as Wael's investment may have been capitalised. Just one problem.
Dwayne Sports is registered in Jersey and could well be a "private company". If that is the case, the accounts will not be available to anyone other than the Shareholders and I must assume the Shareholders are the Al-Qadi family. I certainly cannot buy shares in Dwayne Sports, so will have no access to any accounts.
Wrong, the accounts have already been published for 2016 and can be downloaded for £4, although I doubt they show a lot for this year though. www.jerseyfsc.org/registry/documentsearch/NameDetail.aspx?Id=306465
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Post by swissgas on Aug 5, 2016 16:04:40 GMT
Just one problem.
Dwayne Sports is registered in Jersey and could well be a "private company". If that is the case, the accounts will not be available to anyone other than the Shareholders and I must assume the Shareholders are the Al-Qadi family. I certainly cannot buy shares in Dwayne Sports, so will have no access to any accounts.
Wrong, the accounts have already been published for 2016 and can be downloaded for £4, although I doubt they show a lot for this year though. www.jerseyfsc.org/registry/documentsearch/NameDetail.aspx?Id=306465Jersey registered private companies are not required to publish their accounts.
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 5, 2016 16:44:15 GMT
Jersey registered private companies are not required to publish their accounts. So what "Annual Return" do you get for £4 then, it must say something?
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Post by swissgas on Aug 5, 2016 17:52:06 GMT
Jersey registered private companies are not required to publish their accounts. So what "Annual Return" do you get for £4 then, it must say something? The Annual Return just gives basic information such as the details of Directors and Shareholders. Provided you are creditworthy it is possible to acquire a business by refinancing, either formally or informally, the assets of that business. You don't actually have to put up any new cash. At the weekend I made a post on the Independent Forum expressing some concern about whether any new equity capital had actually been put into Rovers and whether possible hitches with the stadium project could be down to the amount of equity capital which Rovers are proposing to inject. Is there enough to satisfy the UWE and outside financiers ? Also, I am surprised that no new experienced full time managers have been employed by the club and that everything appears to revolve around Steve Hamer with the new accountant so far very much in the background. Even the two guys working on the stadium negotiations seem very much as if they are acting as consultants rather than being full time members of staff. But to carry through a 50 million stadium project and develop a club which is capable of maintaining Championship status I believe you must have a visible strategy and a full time management team capable of implementing it. Many fans were adamant that it was disloyal to criticise Nick Higgs and highlight concerns about the way he ran the club. But with hindsight perhaps some will now accept that it is better to say what you think and to ask difficult questions because by doing so you are more likely to stimulate the owners into positive action which in the longer term will benefit both them and the club. The small steps taken in the last six months are positive but the bigger picture, to me at least, remains cloudy.
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 5, 2016 19:04:29 GMT
I guess full time Directors of the calibre of the two consultants will want £100K+ p.a., until we get the go ahead for the UWE can we really afford to employ them on our present Div 1 income? There was a suggestion Coventry City's FD , Steve Brookfield(?) was joining us but nothing else seems to have been said on his employment.
I'm not sure what we are supposed to question, we know the UWE talks are ongoing, Wael says the wonga loan has been paid off and we are debt free, unless somebody supplies evidence to show that's not the case we just have to trust them.
At the end of the day I can't see the Al-Q's, who own a bank worth billions, would want to get involved in Rovers just to rip the club off for £10m or so.
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Post by swissgas on Aug 5, 2016 20:02:00 GMT
I guess full time Directors of the calibre of the two consultants will want £100K+ p.a., until we get the go ahead for the UWE can we really afford to employ them on our present Div 1 income? There was a suggestion Coventry City's FD , Steve Brookfield(?) was joining us but nothing else seems to have been said on his employment. I'm not sure what we are supposed to question, we know the UWE talks are ongoing, Wael says the wonga loan has been paid off and we are debt free, unless somebody supplies evidence to show that's not the case we just have to trust them. At the end of the day I can't see the Al-Q's, who own a bank worth billions, would want to get involved in Rovers just to rip the club off for £10m or so. I'm not accusing the Al-Qadi family of trying to rip off anyone. What I am concerned about is whether they were persuaded to buy Rovers without being aware of how much cash would be needed to carry through the whole project and do it properly.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 5, 2016 20:10:51 GMT
I guess full time Directors of the calibre of the two consultants will want £100K+ p.a., until we get the go ahead for the UWE can we really afford to employ them on our present Div 1 income? There was a suggestion Coventry City's FD , Steve Brookfield(?) was joining us but nothing else seems to have been said on his employment. I'm not sure what we are supposed to question, we know the UWE talks are ongoing, Wael says the wonga loan has been paid off and we are debt free, unless somebody supplies evidence to show that's not the case we just have to trust them. At the end of the day I can't see the Al-Q's, who own a bank worth billions, would want to get involved in Rovers just to rip the club off for £10m or so. I'm not accusing the Al-Qadi family of trying to rip off anyone. What I am concerned about is whether they were persuaded to buy Rovers without being aware of how much cash would be needed to carry through the whole project and do it properly. I'm not sure they realized what a shambles almost every aspect of the club was and how much work it was going to take to even achieve the most basic changes let alone build a new stadium.
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Post by socrates on Aug 5, 2016 20:16:29 GMT
I'm not accusing the Al-Qadi family of trying to rip off anyone. What I am concerned about is whether they were persuaded to buy Rovers without being aware of how much cash would be needed to carry through the whole project and do it properly. I'm not sure they realized what a shambles almost every aspect of the club was and how much work it was going to take to even achieve the most basic changes let alone build a new stadium. Probably true but they're businessmen and they love football so I'm pretty sure they can make it work. Not long now until the big kick off bring it on !!
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Post by Severncider on Aug 5, 2016 20:28:27 GMT
Just one problem.
Dwayne Sports is registered in Jersey and could well be a "private company". If that is the case, the accounts will not be available to anyone other than the Shareholders and I must assume the Shareholders are the Al-Qadi family. I certainly cannot buy shares in Dwayne Sports, so will have no access to any accounts.
Wrong, the accounts have already been published for 2016 and can be downloaded for £4, although I doubt they show a lot for this year though. www.jerseyfsc.org/registry/documentsearch/NameDetail.aspx?Id=306465Thanks for confirming that Dwayne Sports are a Private Company, I do not have the time to confirm that but is was obviously the case. I lived in Jersey for 5 years and am well aware of why companies are set up in the Channel Islands. There is nothing wrong in it, but at the moment I fail to understand the reason for doing so.
I have spoken to a lot of Gasheads and the majority of them believe that the MSP loan has been paid off and BRFC are no longer expected to clear it. The £3+m has not disappeared it is just residing in a different companies accounts. I will be asking a question at BRFC's next AGM as to whether we are paying any fees/interest etc on that money?
I also expect that the "consultants" are on the books of Dwayne Sports and I'd love to know if this also involves any fees etc to BRFC.
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Post by aghast on Aug 5, 2016 20:29:52 GMT
I'm not accusing the Al-Qadi family of trying to rip off anyone. What I am concerned about is whether they were persuaded to buy Rovers without being aware of how much cash would be needed to carry through the whole project and do it properly. I'm not sure they realized what a shambles almost every aspect of the club was and how much work it was going to take to even achieve the most basic changes let alone build a new stadium. I agree with every word of that. I'm concerned about how they might react if and when they realise that the deal Higgs agreed with UWE was not a viable business model and we might have to wait 5 years or more to get an alternative site.
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Post by socrates on Aug 5, 2016 20:38:49 GMT
I'm not sure they realized what a shambles almost every aspect of the club was and how much work it was going to take to even achieve the most basic changes let alone build a new stadium. I agree with every word of that. I'm concerned about how they might react if and when they realise that the deal Higgs agreed with UWE was not a viable business model and we might have to wait 5 years or more to get an alternative site. Well Wael said he's in it for the long haul and he seems like a man of his word. I won't be laying awake worrying about it like I used to worry about how the old board were ruining our club that's for sure.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 5, 2016 20:43:49 GMT
I'm not sure they realized what a shambles almost every aspect of the club was and how much work it was going to take to even achieve the most basic changes let alone build a new stadium. I agree with every word of that. I'm concerned about how they might react if and when they realise that the deal Higgs agreed with UWE was not a viable business model and we might have to wait 5 years or more to get an alternative site. Pretty sure they already realize that and are doing their best to make it work.
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Post by banjogas on Aug 5, 2016 21:00:51 GMT
Back to the present time and still no certificate on the south and south west stand. 3 working days until Cardiff.....
Swiss Gas made a very good point, no new Manager(s) appointed behind the scenes. The same old faces mugging the club off and holding it back eg commercial, shop etc
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Post by youmadethatup on Aug 5, 2016 21:02:39 GMT
I suspect the club are doing better on the pitch than the owners thought they would be doing when they first started negotiating a takeover. They may have started when BRFC were still wondering if they could make any attempt at the playoffs last season. Their original thought may have been .....
Year one...league two top 12 finish...get a grip on the general running of the club and look into the uwe project. Year two....make a playoff push......improve the mem a little...uwe project continues and training facilities investigated with plans considered Year three.....gain league two promotion........build training site.....start uwe build or push forward new sites. Year four.......league one top 12 finish......start to use new facilities...expand to incorporate academy......uwe build on going/ new site planning consent Year five.......league one play off push.....uwe build completed/new site build begins.....academy and training completed and in use...... Year six.........league one promotion...playing at uwe ,top academy and training and new avenues of income stream looked into. Year seven...either playing at uwe or new site in championship first new academy players hitting the squad fringes.
I think the team have pushed the casual plans forward quicker than anticipated.
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 5, 2016 21:07:06 GMT
I guess full time Directors of the calibre of the two consultants will want £100K+ p.a., until we get the go ahead for the UWE can we really afford to employ them on our present Div 1 income? There was a suggestion Coventry City's FD , Steve Brookfield(?) was joining us but nothing else seems to have been said on his employment. I'm not sure what we are supposed to question, we know the UWE talks are ongoing, Wael says the wonga loan has been paid off and we are debt free, unless somebody supplies evidence to show that's not the case we just have to trust them. At the end of the day I can't see the Al-Q's, who own a bank worth billions, would want to get involved in Rovers just to rip the club off for £10m or so. I'm not accusing the Al-Qadi family of trying to rip off anyone. What I am concerned about is whether they were persuaded to buy Rovers without being aware of how much cash would be needed to carry through the whole project and do it properly. Isn't that what due diligence is for, if the Al-Qadi's were out manoeuvred by NH then it doesn't say a lot for their legal team?
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Post by banjogas on Aug 5, 2016 21:09:06 GMT
All owners want a quick return, why would anyone plan on holding back ?
Doesn't matter what league you are in. You have to learn with the expectation.
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 5, 2016 21:13:49 GMT
Thanks for confirming that Dwayne Sports are a Private Company, I do not have the time to confirm that but is was obviously the case. I lived in Jersey for 5 years and am well aware of why companies are set up in the Channel Islands. There is nothing wrong in it, but at the moment I fail to understand the reason for doing so.
I have spoken to a lot of Gasheads and the majority of them believe that the MSP loan has been paid off and BRFC are no longer expected to clear it. The £3+m has not disappeared it is just residing in a different companies accounts. I will be asking a question at BRFC's next AGM as to whether we are paying any fees/interest etc on that money?
I also expect that the "consultants" are on the books of Dwayne Sports and I'd love to know if this also involves any fees etc to BRFC.
How do you know for certain the wonga loan hasn't been paid off and is still on the books? As far as the consultants are concerned as they are acting for Rovers I can't see it's an issue if they are paid by the club, after all NH wasted millions in legal costs pursuing Sainsbury's!
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Post by peterparker on Aug 6, 2016 6:24:59 GMT
Thanks for confirming that Dwayne Sports are a Private Company, I do not have the time to confirm that but is was obviously the case. I lived in Jersey for 5 years and am well aware of why companies are set up in the Channel Islands. There is nothing wrong in it, but at the moment I fail to understand the reason for doing so.
I have spoken to a lot of Gasheads and the majority of them believe that the MSP loan has been paid off and BRFC are no longer expected to clear it. The £3+m has not disappeared it is just residing in a different companies accounts. I will be asking a question at BRFC's next AGM as to whether we are paying any fees/interest etc on that money?
I also expect that the "consultants" are on the books of Dwayne Sports and I'd love to know if this also involves any fees etc to BRFC.
How do you know for certain the wonga loan hasn't been paid off and is still on the books? As far as the consultants are concerned as they are acting for Rovers I can't see it's an issue if they are paid by the club, after all NH wasted millions in legal costs pursuing Sainsbury's! I am not sure Dwayne Sports would want a short term gigh interest loan sitting on their books
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