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Post by daniel300380 on Feb 28, 2017 13:36:04 GMT
You really can't stop can you? What basis in FACT do you have for saying any of the stuff in bold? Wael has clearly said the club now wan't to buy the land, if they do the stadium won't be called the UWE, so apart from having a football stadium on their doorstep what are the UWE going to gain if they don't own the land or the stadium? The end part I said "seemingly" as Wael hasn't confirmed that but that's what I understand is the case, as does Gasincider, whose now gone a bit further and even quoted land values. What ever the stadium is called, they will still have it near their campus. We could still let them play there varsity games there, give students discounts on tickets and unless the plan has changed it included a jogging track, student bar, lecture halls etc all of what they can use. Although prices would have to be agreed, for letting them use it lol. It could still be a good selling point, when trying to attract new students though, especially students who like football. Not to mention the extra parking spaces that they need. Could even agree a deal on them having naming rights. So many million off the asking price, for so many years. Lots can be done to make it viable for both parties.
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Post by singupgas on Feb 28, 2017 13:53:55 GMT
I wish we would just crack on and get a deal done though. Obviously Wael and Family want the best deal for them but that might not be realistic.
If we can't match what UWE could get from the land in another deal then why would they sell. They won't be short of money so can't be in any rush.
Universities are getting greedier ripping off students with astronomical fees, they aren't going to give us a special deal on a valuable land.
think we are going to have give what is being asked or looked elsewhere.
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Post by LJG on Feb 28, 2017 14:33:06 GMT
Again what factual basis do you have for saying this? Do you seriously think we are going to pay £xm's for the land plus £xm's to build the stadium then call it the UWE Stadium, if so, we might as well stick with NH's original lease/naming rights swap and save on buying the land in the first place? Yet again you're confusing two completely separate issues and coming up with your own garbled interpretation and stating it as fact. 1. The value of naming rights for a fixed number of seasons and the value of a freehold commercial property are totally different issues both conceptually and in money terms. The reasons Wael would want to negotiate owning the freehold of the land so obviously goes way beyond the issue of naming rights it almost goes without saying. 2. You have absolutely no idea what UWE's negotiating position is on this. 3. You have no idea what is in the current Heads of Terms which are currently being negotiated over or how flexible either party is over those.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 14:53:18 GMT
Handbags at dawn is a good way to get this thread to 40 pages. Great work guys.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Feb 28, 2017 15:51:52 GMT
Do you seriously think we are going to pay £xm's for the land plus £xm's to build the stadium then call it the UWE Stadium, if so, we might as well stick with NH's original lease/naming rights swap and save on buying the land in the first place? Yet again you're confusing two completely separate issues and coming up with your own garbled interpretation and stating it as fact. 1. The value of naming rights for a fixed number of seasons and the value of a freehold commercial property are totally different issues both conceptually and in money terms. The reasons Wael would want to negotiate owning the freehold of the land so obviously goes way beyond the issue of naming rights it almost goes without saying. 2. You have absolutely no idea what UWE's negotiating position is on this.3. You have no idea what is in the current Heads of Terms which are currently being negotiated over or how flexible either party is over those. Do You ?
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Post by curlywurly on Feb 28, 2017 15:58:33 GMT
I wish we would just crack on and get a deal done though. Obviously Wael and Family want the best deal for them but that might not be realistic. If we can't match what UWE could get from the land in another deal then why would they sell. They won't be short of money so can't be in any rush. Universities are getting greedier ripping off students with astronomical fees, they aren't going to give us a special deal on a valuable land. think we are going to have give what is being asked or looked elsewhere. Having waited forty years for a decent stadium of our own, no one would celebrate more than me if a deal was announced. BUT not at any cost. What is clear is the arrangement we would have had, if the Sainsbury's deal had gone through, would have left UWE with the whip hand on income generation. I wouldn't blame Nick and the previous board for this as he had Rovers best interests at heart and was desperate to get a new ground. The Al Qadi's have come in and have a different perspective. They are not as cash strapped as the previous board and can afford to investigate options to improve the potential investment - it is what they do! I also take a different view on UWE's motivation. They are not simply interested in selling land to the highest bidder. Even if housing on that land was permitted, it would add nothing to UWE, the campus or the organisation. On the other hand, the presence of the stadium and associated facilities on their campus would be unique in the UK and would be a real feather in their cap. If UWE and the Al Qadi's can come to a mutually beneficial deal then both parties win. Finally, I'd also take issue on universities getting greedier. I'm not saying that income from students is not profitable, but capped tuition fees were introduced as the government withdrew the subsidy to universities that everyone was paying for via their taxes. The absolute level of the fees is open to debate, but I'd suggest those directly benefiting from a university education should contribute more to that education than the rest of the tax paying nation. Sit tight in my view, but if Wael and family are forced to walk away without a deal with UWE, I'd trust them to come up with a better arrangement, in time, elsewhere.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 16:27:46 GMT
Handbags at dawn is a good way to get this thread to 40 pages. Great work guys. Poor ole Dawn. Whatever has she done to deserve that ?
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Feb 28, 2017 16:35:21 GMT
Handbags at dawn is a good way to get this thread to 40 pages. Great work guys. Poor ole Dawn. Whatever has she done to deserve that ? I was up at the crack of dawn this morning.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 16:48:52 GMT
Poor ole Dawn. Whatever has she done to deserve that ? I was up at the crack of dawn this morning. As I said, poor ole Dawn.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 16:50:53 GMT
Poor ole Dawn. Whatever has she done to deserve that ? I was up at the crack of dawn this morning. That all smells a bit fishy to me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 17:08:08 GMT
The uwe site [25 acres]is smaller than the new training camp site [29 acres]. Approx figures from memory...
As for the hotel on the stadium....on the UWE plans there is a 200 bedroom hotel site allocated just next to the stadium nearer to abbeywood. As well as a small commercial unit site next to that .
I suspect this would indicate there are no plans to build a hotel into the stadium ...just for the hotel to be purchased also.
I also guess that UWE wanted a diverse portfolio on the land they held bringing in different income streams over a long period of time as part of long term financial health of the university. Selling the land provides short term gain...unless of course they invest that money into other money making projects.
So as both the training camp and the stadium sites hold similar things and have PP for such...sports with some commercial activity and education should that not mean that the prices should be similar ?? If UWE had also put in a planning request for housing and had that passed it would be valued differently ,at a higher price. ??
The UWE obviously want an ongoing benefit from the stadium being there else why bother having it there ,other than the money those benefits need to be established I guess.
You can't compare land values for, what I believe, is green belt land on the outskirts of Almondsbury with prime development land in Filton. As far as the stadium as the club will now own it the UWE will obtain little real benefit, ie it will no longer be called the UWE Stadium etc, hence, why they now seemingly want a good price for the land as subject to pp from S Glos they could sell the land for any developement. This is true...but....the stadium site was once on green farmland and is in a semirural location. The training ground is only 200 yards[maybe a little further] as the crow flies from the RAC building and the other businesses out on the Aztec west area. Housing has already been built right next to the training camp site.
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Post by LJG on Feb 28, 2017 17:10:42 GMT
Yet again you're confusing two completely separate issues and coming up with your own garbled interpretation and stating it as fact. 1. The value of naming rights for a fixed number of seasons and the value of a freehold commercial property are totally different issues both conceptually and in money terms. The reasons Wael would want to negotiate owning the freehold of the land so obviously goes way beyond the issue of naming rights it almost goes without saying. 2. You have absolutely no idea what UWE's negotiating position is on this.3. You have no idea what is in the current Heads of Terms which are currently being negotiated over or how flexible either party is over those. Do You ? No. So what?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 17:15:04 GMT
#fiverbump
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 17:17:08 GMT
A little bit of digging show that the UWE bought 70 acres from HP for 40m quid in 2008. Apparently we want 14 acres? So how much do they want for the land? link
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Post by Marshy on Feb 28, 2017 17:26:13 GMT
A little bit of digging show that the UWE bought 70 acres from HP for 40m quid in 2008. Apparently we want 14 acres? So how much do they want for the land? link Too Dam much by the sound of it the greedy Taylor esque snakes!
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 28, 2017 17:29:33 GMT
Do you seriously think we are going to pay £xm's for the land plus £xm's to build the stadium then call it the UWE Stadium, if so, we might as well stick with NH's original lease/naming rights swap and save on buying the land in the first place? Yet again you're confusing two completely separate issues and coming up with your own garbled interpretation and stating it as fact. 1. The value of naming rights for a fixed number of seasons and the value of a freehold commercial property are totally different issues both conceptually and in money terms. The reasons Wael would want to negotiate owning the freehold of the land so obviously goes way beyond the issue of naming rights it almost goes without saying. 2. You have absolutely no idea what UWE's negotiating position is on this. 3. You have no idea what is in the current Heads of Terms which are currently being negotiated over or how flexible either party is over those. What if do? That's football forums for you, you're never certain who's ITK and who isn't. I can say for certain there's going to be no announcement this month.
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Post by daniel300380 on Feb 28, 2017 17:32:34 GMT
Yet again you're confusing two completely separate issues and coming up with your own garbled interpretation and stating it as fact. 1. The value of naming rights for a fixed number of seasons and the value of a freehold commercial property are totally different issues both conceptually and in money terms. The reasons Wael would want to negotiate owning the freehold of the land so obviously goes way beyond the issue of naming rights it almost goes without saying. 2. You have absolutely no idea what UWE's negotiating position is on this. 3. You have no idea what is in the current Heads of Terms which are currently being negotiated over or how flexible either party is over those. What if do? That's football forums for you, you're never certain who's ITK and who isn't. I can say for certain there's going to be no announcement this month. As in today? Or a month from now lol.
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Post by LJG on Feb 28, 2017 17:41:57 GMT
Yet again you're confusing two completely separate issues and coming up with your own garbled interpretation and stating it as fact. 1. The value of naming rights for a fixed number of seasons and the value of a freehold commercial property are totally different issues both conceptually and in money terms. The reasons Wael would want to negotiate owning the freehold of the land so obviously goes way beyond the issue of naming rights it almost goes without saying. 2. You have absolutely no idea what UWE's negotiating position is on this. 3. You have no idea what is in the current Heads of Terms which are currently being negotiated over or how flexible either party is over those. What if do? That's football forums for you, you're never certain who's ITK and who isn't. I can say for certain there's going to be no announcement this month. It's quite clear from your mangled analysis and conflation of two totally distinct issues that you do not. Or if you do you don't understand what you know, in which case, what's the difference?
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 28, 2017 17:54:12 GMT
What if do? That's football forums for you, you're never certain who's ITK and who isn't. I can say for certain there's going to be no announcement this month. It's quite clear from your mangled analysis and conflation of two totally distinct issues that you do not. Or if you do you don't understand what you know, in which case, what's the difference? That's my intention, a man of mystery, nobody knows what I do or don't know, bl00dy annoying you isn't it?
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 28, 2017 17:59:49 GMT
Topper. The land was bought from HP for peanuts on condition it was to be used for educational purposes. You can bet HP will want their pound of flesh if it's now being sold to us. You also assume that if we buy the land that the stadium is being built on, and I believe they are happy for us to do so, that we will be able to sell the naming rights. I hope you are right, but who is to say that UWE may not insist on it being called the UWE Stadium for the first 5 years or whatever as part of the deal. We would need to be able to sell naming rights though as part of the ability to fund the project. Let's just hope the last major issues are resolved shortly. Think you've answered your own question if we can't sell the naming rights, what's going to fund buying the land, rather than just leasing it for a peppercorn rate in return for the naming rights. As far as the £1m shortfall, where has that figure suddenly come from as I've never heard that mentioned before, a reliable source or just an assumption?
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