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Post by Topper Gas on Apr 9, 2017 21:25:48 GMT
Given it's the ALQ's continuing to run up the debts by employing extra backroom staff etc then it seems they are prepared to exceed the credit line? The ALQ's must have also willingly run up even further debts when they set up Dwane Sports Colony to purchase the training ground. B ... b ... b ... but you said Wael had to convince the other family members not to take their money out a ... a ... a ... and you said Hami had made an executive decision to tell the family to withdraw if UWE negotiations weren't concluded in August??? Did I really?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 21:29:02 GMT
Contracted list seems to have been glossed over on here from the Chairman's summary. Chris Lines Ollie Clarke Stuart Sinclair Dan Leadbitter Lee Brown Tom Lockyer Peter Hartley Byron Moore Billy Bodin Joe Partington Johnny Burn So basically we have no-one in goal, no-one in attack. That should fill us all with a lot of optimism then. More Hamer spin I'm afraid - just 11 players contracted at the moment - and 2/3 of those unconvincing at the moment. Some of us were being slated only a couple of weeks ago as being "ridiculous" for saying we needed up to an additional 12 players. Perhaps these same people would like to add their 'Rose Tinted' comments now or rather just face the facts. There are a significant number of players at the club who will be out of contract at the end of the season just like most clubs in league 1 and 2. It just depends how many the club decide to offer contracts too for next season. If none are offered deals then the 12 players is of course realistic but it will also be the end of the line for the team that has served us so well. It will be interesting to see what happens but most small clubs like ours have numerous players on 1 year deals so its quite normal imo
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Post by LJG on Apr 9, 2017 22:08:18 GMT
B ... b ... b ... but you said Wael had to convince the other family members not to take their money out a ... a ... a ... and you said Hami had made an executive decision to tell the family to withdraw if UWE negotiations weren't concluded in August??? Did I really? That is exactly as I see it and I have always been bothered about how long the owners will stay. Only time will tell. The fact that Wael is an avid fan could be the difference though and I certainly hope he feels we are something he wants to remain involved in & he builds us up into the very best we can be. Longevity of ownership has been my only worry with the buy out. The problem with that is Wael's got to convince his family that investing in Rovers is a good idea, whereas the likes of Abramovich can just make their own decisions, all you can hope is the ALQ's can come to some reasonable deal with the UWE but the moment there seems no further news on that score. gaschat.co.uk/thread/9667/brfc-accounts-2015-16?page=4#post-277521
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Post by Captain Jayho on Apr 10, 2017 0:50:58 GMT
Finance is not my area of expertise at all so I could be miles out here but have to say I am a bit concerned about the accounts along with the 15k attendance revelation.
If the plan is to pay off the debt with the money from the Mem and then service all of our ongoing club and stadium build costs with future income from the WallyDome then that is all well and good. But isn't that reliant on our existing levels of debt not exceeding the valuation of the Mem prior to completion of the WallyDome? And based on the period these accounts were for, together with Hamer's suggestion that we now require 15k attendances to break even, aren't we already likely to have debt close to or in excess of that value?
It strikes me that any major delay or god forbid cancellation of the new stadium is going to have us in a lot of pretty deep merde very quickly indeed. Though I can see why the directors would want to make damn sure the income streams from the new stadium were going to be sufficient going forward in any deal and therefore it's not simply ticking a box as some seem to think.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Apr 10, 2017 6:37:53 GMT
I wonder if the magical 15K quoted by our esteemed Chairperson includes all the non gate receipts the club gets or is just based on bums on Virtual seats
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 10, 2017 7:22:20 GMT
I wonder if the magical 15K quoted by our esteemed Chairperson includes all the non gate receipts the club gets or is just based on bums on Virtual seats That was my first thought, what is the context of that statement. If it was 'what is the break even figure if based purely on average gate receipts over 23 league matches' or does it include other revenue streams such as sponsorship, merchandise sales, etc? If it is just the former then it emphasises the need for other steams (added weight for the UWE), if it is the real attendance requirement inclusive of other financing then that would be the worry.
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Post by Topper Gas on Apr 10, 2017 7:43:35 GMT
The problem with that is Wael's got to convince his family that investing in Rovers is a good idea, whereas the likes of Abramovich can just make their own decisions, all you can hope is the ALQ's can come to some reasonable deal with the UWE but the moment there seems no further news on that score. gaschat.co.uk/thread/9667/brfc-accounts-2015-16?page=4#post-277521OK, so I didn't say but you said Wael had to convince the other family members not to take their money out, although it's clear from the accounts it's not just Wael making the big decisions i.e. "Mr H Al-Qadi has confirmed his intention to maintain support".
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Post by Topper Gas on Apr 10, 2017 7:45:45 GMT
I wonder if the magical 15K quoted by our esteemed Chairperson includes all the non gate receipts the club gets or is just based on bums on Virtual seats Still not sure where that figure came from as SS didn't mention it in his post covering the topics discussed but you can see 15K being the break even figure at the UWE, as it'll be 2/3's of the ground capacity?
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Post by peterparker on Apr 10, 2017 7:48:50 GMT
I wonder if the magical 15K quoted by our esteemed Chairperson includes all the non gate receipts the club gets or is just based on bums on Virtual seats That was my first thought, what is the context of that statement. If it was 'what is the break even figure if based purely on average gate receipts over 23 league matches' or does it include other revenue streams such as sponsorship, merchandise sales, etc? If it is just the former then it emphasises the need for other steams (added weight for the UWE), if it is the real attendance requirement inclusive of other financing then that would be the worry. I would guess it would be 15,000 to break even on attendances alone and all other income streams would be classed as extra revenue based on historical 'break even' figures. But then who knows how Watola worked anything out, seeing as him and the board set budgets based on crowds we never actually got and talked about sustainable losses as if there was an endless pot of finance under the old board
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Post by Captain Jayho on Apr 10, 2017 8:12:58 GMT
That was my first thought, what is the context of that statement. If it was 'what is the break even figure if based purely on average gate receipts over 23 league matches' or does it include other revenue streams such as sponsorship, merchandise sales, etc? If it is just the former then it emphasises the need for other steams (added weight for the UWE), if it is the real attendance requirement inclusive of other financing then that would be the worry. I would guess it would be 15,000 to break even on attendances alone and all other income streams would be classed as extra revenue based on historical 'break even' figures. But then who knows how Watola worked anything out, seeing as him and the board set budgets based on crowds we never actually got and talked about sustainable losses as if there was an endless pot of finance under the old board
My assumption was that it is 15k required and that already includes existing other revenue streams. Otherwise it's a totally pointless statement isn't it? Goes without saying we're all guessing though of course! Hamer probably mumbled something and said he was 15 minutes late and it was construed as we need a 15k gate...
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 10, 2017 8:15:53 GMT
That was my first thought, what is the context of that statement. If it was 'what is the break even figure if based purely on average gate receipts over 23 league matches' or does it include other revenue streams such as sponsorship, merchandise sales, etc? If it is just the former then it emphasises the need for other steams (added weight for the UWE), if it is the real attendance requirement inclusive of other financing then that would be the worry. I would guess it would be 15,000 to break even on attendances alone and all other income streams would be classed as extra revenue based on historical 'break even' figures. But then who knows how Watola worked anything out, seeing as him and the board set budgets based on crowds we never actually got and talked about sustainable losses as if there was an endless pot of finance under the old board
Quick back of envelope calculation, our expenditure was £5.5m which spread over 23 games and divided by the 15,000 figure quoted would suggest the average cost of a ticket is £16. That to me would suggest the equivalent break even figure for our outgoings would be based on just gate receipts.
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Post by Captain Jayho on Apr 10, 2017 8:35:17 GMT
I would guess it would be 15,000 to break even on attendances alone and all other income streams would be classed as extra revenue based on historical 'break even' figures. But then who knows how Watola worked anything out, seeing as him and the board set budgets based on crowds we never actually got and talked about sustainable losses as if there was an endless pot of finance under the old board
Quick back of envelope calculation, our expenditure was £5.5m which spread over 23 games and divided by the 15,000 figure quoted would suggest the average cost of a ticket is £16. That to me would suggest the equivalent break even figure for our outgoings would be based on just gate receipts. Or if the average cost of a ticket is 14 quid then it's gate receipts plus approx 700k of additional other revenue. Surely it can be cut so many ways it's impossible to tell? Not trying to shoot you down, there just seems to be a lot of possible permutations and combinations that sound semi-feasible.
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Post by peterparker on Apr 10, 2017 8:58:00 GMT
No doubt you could cut it several different ways without knowing the full context and budgetary process. I have work to do on Semi-flexed budgets coming up and it can make a difference to a cold hard fixed budget
My thinking and assumption under the new ownership and what they want to do with UWE, would be that the crowd (plus league monies) would be the basis number for ‘breaking even’ . In a perfect world this would cover the running of the club. the subsidiary income, food, Hospitality, corporate events etc would want to be seen as ‘profit’ (if you follow me) and would be used to repay debtors/investors (depending on how we are financing the stadium) and some also put back into the club depending on what ‘profit’ was made.
Of course if crowds don’t cover the running, this has to be covered by either capital from the owners and/or some of the subsidiary income whilst servicing debt/investors
But hey what do any of us really know
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Post by dinsdale on Apr 10, 2017 9:19:01 GMT
Dear all, these accounts are a year out of date and represent the final year of terrible financial management of the club by the old regime. Lets be calm and wait for next years accounts which will show a much bigger income and a much smaller loss. It will also be clearer as to what the board are doing with our debt.
Lets not forget there are compelxities with paying the club large sums due to financial fair play. I have total faith in the board at the moment as we are seeing success on the pitch, investment in footballing structures and also a big boost in attendances.
We are heading upwards and no longer hve Tony the till ballsing up the financial planning to worry about. Whether they wipe the debt overnight or park it in an interest free place whilst we sell the Mem its a hell of a lot better then the wonga lon we had.
Up the gas
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 9:51:49 GMT
Dear all, these accounts are a year out of date and represent the final year of terrible financial management of the club by the old regime. Lets be calm and wait for next years accounts which will show a much bigger income and a much smaller loss. It will also be clearer as to what the board are doing with our debt. Lets not forget there are compelxities with paying the club large sums due to financial fair play. I have total faith in the board at the moment as we are seeing success on the pitch, investment in footballing structures and also a big boost in attendances. We are heading upwards and no longer hve Tony the till ballsing up the financial planning to worry about. Whether they wipe the debt overnight or park it in an interest free place whilst we sell the Mem its a hell of a lot better then the wonga lon we had. Up the gas Not sure you're right to be honest. If we believe what our Chairman is effectively saying and we are roughly 6k down on attendance figures per match to break even - this equates to roughly £3.5m per season. Next seasons accounts will presumably reflect this and the overall 'debt' will likely increase to nearer £12m. How can the debt reduce if the main revenue stream has such a big shortfall. Also many of the players had salaries/contracts that reflected the Conference/2nd Division they played in. DC will be rebuilding a new squad with new players expecting salaries significantly higher than what was being paid a couple of years ago - we cannot expect IMO to push forward by continually recruiting players from lower divisions - this is why the club tends to recruit so many young inexperienced loan players - some come off and some fail. Fortunately we got very lucky with just two loans - without these two we could have been in real trouble at the wrong end of the table.
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Post by dinsdale on Apr 10, 2017 9:53:57 GMT
Where does our chAirman say we are 6000 down on break even gates? How would we suddenly lose 4m in a season when our wage budgey is relatively small, gates are up and sponsor revenue is at an all time high ?
Confused
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 10:07:55 GMT
If we are loosing about £750,000 a year and there are 23 home games with say average ticket price net of VAT being say £12.00 then we would need to get another 2700 people to attend each home game, a lot less if we get a big club away in the cup.
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Post by Captain Jayho on Apr 10, 2017 10:08:39 GMT
Where does our chAirman say we are 6000 down on break even gates? How would we suddenly lose 4m in a season when our wage budgey is relatively small, gates are up and sponsor revenue is at an all time high ? Confused The 15k figure was reportedly divulged by Hamer at the WsM supporters meeting which he attended if my memory of the OP is correct. And your second point is a good one. But a minute ago you told us all to calm down and get on with life so I'd carry on and not worry about it too much if I were you...
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Post by dinsdale on Apr 10, 2017 10:17:48 GMT
Hamer makes it up as he goes along. He was like that when he was at Swansea.
If we only lost £750000 on 8000 gates then we will be fine on what we get now and increased income streams. Expecting to see much smaller loss next season.
Under financial fair play they cant just gift us £8m
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Post by Gas_Quarters on Apr 10, 2017 10:25:06 GMT
Dear all, these accounts are a year out of date and represent the final year of terrible financial management of the club by the old regime. Lets be calm and wait for next years accounts which will show a much bigger income and a much smaller loss. It will also be clearer as to what the board are doing with our debt. Lets not forget there are compelxities with paying the club large sums due to financial fair play. I have total faith in the board at the moment as we are seeing success on the pitch, investment in footballing structures and also a big boost in attendances. We are heading upwards and no longer hve Tony the till ballsing up the financial planning to worry about. Whether they wipe the debt overnight or park it in an interest free place whilst we sell the Mem its a hell of a lot better then the wonga lon we had. Up the gas Not sure you're right to be honest. If we believe what our Chairman is effectively saying and we are roughly 6k down on attendance figures per match to break even - this equates to roughly £3.5m per season. Next seasons accounts will presumably reflect this and the overall 'debt' will likely increase to nearer £12m. How can the debt reduce if the main revenue stream has such a big shortfall. Also many of the players had salaries/contracts that reflected the Conference/2nd Division they played in. DC will be rebuilding a new squad with new players expecting salaries significantly higher than what was being paid a couple of years ago - we cannot expect IMO to push forward by continually recruiting players from lower divisions - this is why the club tends to recruit so many young inexperienced loan players - some come off and some fail. Fortunately we got very lucky with just two loans - without these two we could have been in real trouble at the wrong end of the table. I think its a bit negative to call them lucky. People blamed DC's poor recruitment when the loans in the first half of the season didn't come off, so he deserves credit when the couple he signed in January have been superb. UTG!
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