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Post by Quartermaster on Aug 5, 2017 10:59:13 GMT
Well you said spin, not me! The owners have more control over timing than anyone else (not complete control as shown by Thursday evenings events). I would have thought they'd have liked to have countered bad news like that with something positive (not spin). Something like "we're not building at UWE, but we've identified this site and here's some initial plans". We are clearly nowhere near that stage. Wael has said nothing. If he's at Charlton, I don't think he's in for a smooth ride. That's all I was trying to say. If you are trying to say he will get negativity or worse, it will kick off amongst our fans. Your view is a minority troublesome one. You only need to read some of the responses here over the last couple of days to see Wael doesn't have 100% support. We have threads titled "fake sheikh" and "where's Wally". If you are calling my view troublesome and that of the minority then I think you are misunderstanding my view! I still support what the Al Qadis are doing and believe they'll get us there in the end. I just think the last few days we're not brilliantly handled and fans will have questions when they see him face to face. That's not the same as "kicking off".
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Post by Mr Pond on Aug 5, 2017 11:03:53 GMT
Gashead1981 this makes a little scene! maybe that's why they did not buy it for our training ground, they head a bigger picture planned for the land? I have just had a look on google earth and the existing training ground and Clifton rugby club together has more land than the UWE. Even has a train line running by the side of it! perfect!! I did exactly the same!! Only because I started to think....where else in Bristol could we realistically put a stadium. Here or Rolls Royce area are the only viable plots. RR and Fulton runway are expensive plots and earmarked for other forms of development. The site at Cribbs is an existing sports ground, can still be used for all the same purposes it is now if a stadium was built on it. Very close to our training ground site, so effectively everything will be in a very close radius. Add to that its positioning to major shopping areas and on a direct route into Bristol. It could be the perfect site... Redmaids' High School have just bought the Training ground but still could be enough land for the stadium.
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Post by garystash on Aug 5, 2017 11:24:08 GMT
RE - the bit in bold. The fear is based on the very clear fact that Dwayne Sports have placed a charge against the Mem. The spending we are seeing is not from the AQs injecting money that they are prepared to lose. At any point the debt can be called in, and that will leave the club homeless. I don't think fans are being weak for recognising this. I think we are realising that serious questions need to be asked We as a fanbase can't afford to be apathetic. If the worse were to happen I couldn't sleep at night feeling I saw it coming but decided to say nothing in favour if "keeping the faith". EDIT: Probably worth saying I don't agree with the way many fans are expressing concern. We need to keep it respectable. Bye we don't own the Mem! DS own it.Theyve traded security in THEIR asset for cash. The cash is clearly being invested to advance BRFC I think 1883 Ltd own the stadium, and DS own 1883 Ltd. Anyway, that's not the point... Point is, why not inject cash into the club rather than loan it? They are not showing any willingness to risk their money. It seems anything they've put in is secured. They can walk away without losing at any point. The club needs proper investement, not just pushing what we have to the limit.
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Post by Midsomer Murderer on Aug 5, 2017 11:32:06 GMT
We do have a lot of threads regarding who owns what, companies house, accounts, debt etc., don't we ? maybe the mods could create a section on the forum for this subject to discussed instead of geniuses banging on about on every thread
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Post by madridgas on Aug 5, 2017 11:32:31 GMT
Bye we don't own the Mem! DS own it.Theyve traded security in THEIR asset for cash. The cash is clearly being invested to advance BRFC I think 1883 Ltd own the stadium, and DS own 1883 Ltd. Anyway, that's not the point... Point is, why not inject cash into the club rather than loan it? They are not showing any willingness to risk their money. It seems anything they've put in is secured. They can walk away without losing at any point. The club needs proper investement, not just pushing what we have to the limit. From a finance perspective, if they lend the money, they can both charge interest on it and when cashflow allows remove it. If they invest it, they have to take dividends on which tax is possibly payable. The concern would come when they couldn't / wouldn't fund the interest or capital payments on the borrowings. I'd hope that we would be borrowing at reasonable interest rates.... certainly not the Wonga type rates being quoted shortly before the club was sold. We also don't know if they've given additional guarantees in case the memorial ground wouldn't cover the debt
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Post by knowall on Aug 5, 2017 11:59:03 GMT
Well you said spin, not me! The owners have more control over timing than anyone else (not complete control as shown by Thursday evenings events). I would have thought they'd have liked to have countered bad news like that with something positive (not spin). Something like "we're not building at UWE, but we've identified this site and here's some initial plans". We are clearly nowhere near that stage. Wael has said nothing. If he's at Charlton, I don't think he's in for a smooth ride. That's all I was trying to say. Like I said to Topper - how much does identifying another site and drawing up initial plans cost and how long does it take? Surveyors. Architects. Accountants. Lawyers. Building a stadium isn't like going on holiday - if one thing falls through you can't just go "ok here's what we'll do instead". So if you were buying a house and the seller asked twice what it was worth you would buy would you? Until you know all the facts ..............!!!! and I have yet to read on here from anyone who really does know all the facts and figures
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Post by althepirate on Aug 5, 2017 12:08:08 GMT
Why do we expect to know the details of a multi million pound deal? It doesn't happen. We may know when it's settled but not during the negotiations and we can't expect it just because we are fans. This deal isn't dead despite what the club says but at the moment the club feel they are just too far apart and the discussions are going nowhere.
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Post by LJG on Aug 5, 2017 12:26:40 GMT
Like I said to Topper - how much does identifying another site and drawing up initial plans cost and how long does it take? Surveyors. Architects. Accountants. Lawyers. Building a stadium isn't like going on holiday - if one thing falls through you can't just go "ok here's what we'll do instead". So if you were buying a house and the seller asked twice what it was worth you would buy would you? Until you know all the facts ..............!!!! and I have yet to read on here from anyone who really does know all the facts and figures Huh? To use your analogy we're the house buyers and the UWE is the house. If you're in the process of buying that house and you've forked out for a surveyor and you're paying a solicitor to do the conveyancing you don't then put an offer in on a different property and start paying money for searches and surveys there just in case this one falls through do you? And I think the point about facts and figures is the one I'm making. No one on here has any facts. You don't need to have any special knowledge to know that "coming up with a plan B" takes time and costs money. Like I said: Surveyors. Accountants. Architects. Lawyers.
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 5, 2017 12:38:46 GMT
So if you were buying a house and the seller asked twice what it was worth you would buy would you? Until you know all the facts ..............!!!! and I have yet to read on here from anyone who really does know all the facts and figures Huh? To use your analogy we're the house buyers and the UWE is the house. If you're in the process of buying that house and you've forked out for a surveyor and you're paying a solicitor to do the conveyancing you don't then put an offer in on a different property and start paying money for searches and surveys there just in case this one falls through do you? And I think the point about facts and figures is the one I'm making. No one on here has any facts. You don't need to have any special knowledge to know that "coming up with a plan B" takes time and costs money. Like I said: Surveyors. Accountants. Architects. Lawyers. No idea why I got a sound check but if the ALQ's don't have a clue what Plan B will cost then how do they know the UWE deals is not attractive, what if re-developing the Mem, even if BCC are prepared to now grant pp, costs,say,twice as much as just building the UWE or BCC will only grant pp for a smaller stadium. Assuming what SH said is true he doesn't even know pp on the Mem lapsed years ago, what if the Mem is not viable can we build a stadium any where else for a better deal presently offered by the UWE/how long will that take to achieve/how much revenue will we lose whilst we wait. Although this assumes DS were/are committed to building a stadium, perhaps they never were who knows.
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Post by LJG on Aug 5, 2017 12:48:44 GMT
Huh? To use your analogy we're the house buyers and the UWE is the house. If you're in the process of buying that house and you've forked out for a surveyor and you're paying a solicitor to do the conveyancing you don't then put an offer in on a different property and start paying money for searches and surveys there just in case this one falls through do you? And I think the point about facts and figures is the one I'm making. No one on here has any facts. You don't need to have any special knowledge to know that "coming up with a plan B" takes time and costs money. Like I said: Surveyors. Accountants. Architects. Lawyers. No idea why I got a sound check but if the ALQ's don't have a clue what Plan B will cost then how do they know the UWE deals is not attractive, what if re-developing the Mem, even if BCC are prepared to now grant pp, costs,say,twice as much as just building the UWE or BCC will only grant pp for a smaller stadium. Assuming what SH said is true he doesn't even know pp on the Mem lapsed years ago, what if the Mem is not viable can we build a stadium any where else for a better deal presently offered by the UWE/how long will that take to achieve/how much revenue will we lose whilst we wait. Although this assumes DS were/are committed to building a stadium, perhaps they never were who knows. It's the same point I made to you the other day is why you got a mention. Can you show me where I've said "the ALQ's don't have a clue what Plan B will cost" please? My post asks can YOU tell ME how much it costs and how long it takes to come up with a plan B? Since you seem to be saying this should have already been done before the UWE talks had fallen through you must know how cheap and easy it is. As to the rest of your point - how do they know if it's a bad deal or not? Well I asked you the other day and you did what you always do which is come up with a brand new imaginary scenario rather than respond to my question. So, that question again - if the deal on the table from UWE was "For every £20 BRFC makes you pay us £30 in rent" should we have gone ahead?
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Post by knowall on Aug 5, 2017 12:51:40 GMT
So if you were buying a house and the seller asked twice what it was worth you would buy would you? Until you know all the facts ..............!!!! and I have yet to read on here from anyone who really does know all the facts and figures Huh? To use your analogy we're the house buyers and the UWE is the house. If you're in the process of buying that house and you've forked out for a surveyor and you're paying a solicitor to do the conveyancing you don't then put an offer in on a different property and start paying money for searches and surveys there just in case this one falls through do you? And I think the point about facts and figures is the one I'm making. No one on here has any facts. You don't need to have any special knowledge to know that "coming up with a plan B" takes time and costs money. Like I said: Surveyors. Accountants. Architects. Lawyers. Huh? No UWE are the sellers If the buyers and the sellers cannot agree on a price and/or other conditions - the buyers walk away - and yes - I have walked away on several occasions after paying surveyors etc if the deal is not right for me - no point in carrying on regardless better to look at other options
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Post by LJG on Aug 5, 2017 12:52:41 GMT
Huh? To use your analogy we're the house buyers and the UWE is the house. If you're in the process of buying that house and you've forked out for a surveyor and you're paying a solicitor to do the conveyancing you don't then put an offer in on a different property and start paying money for searches and surveys there just in case this one falls through do you? And I think the point about facts and figures is the one I'm making. No one on here has any facts. You don't need to have any special knowledge to know that "coming up with a plan B" takes time and costs money. Like I said: Surveyors. Accountants. Architects. Lawyers. Huh? No UWE are the sellers If the buyers and the sellers cannot agree on a price and/or other conditions - the buyers walk away - and yes - I have walked away on several occasions after paying surveyors etc if the deal is not right for me - no point in carrying on regardless better to look at other options But you didn't have those other options ready before you pulled out? Exactly. So why do you expect us to have Plan B ready because this deal has fallen through? And if UWE are sellers why is it wrong that I've said we're the buyers???
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 5, 2017 12:56:25 GMT
We've three choices if we want to progress, agree a deal with the UWE, re-develop the Mem or find an alternative site, if we don't know how much the latter two will cost how can we say the UWE project is not viable? I can't show the ALQ's don't know the cost but I was simply responded to your suggestion it would be wrong to investigate the costs before the UWE was dead.
What we don't know is if the UWE is really dead and, if it is, whether a lot of work has been carried out on Plan B or none at all, SH's comments about pp on the Mem implies the latter.
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Post by seanclevedongas on Aug 5, 2017 12:57:43 GMT
Wael is here at Charlton
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Post by LJG on Aug 5, 2017 12:58:36 GMT
We've three choices if we want to progress, agree a deal with the UWE, re-develop the Mem or find an alternative site, if we don't know how much the latter two will cost how can we say the UWE project is not viable? I can't show the ALQ's don't know the cost but I was simply responded to your suggestion it would be wrong to investigate the costs before the UWE was dead. What we don't know is if the UWE is really dead and, if it is, whether a lot of work has been carried out on Plan B or none at all, SH's comments about pp on the Mem implies the latter. Still no answer to my question. Just more and more imaginary scenarios. If UWE Said for every 20 quid you make you give us 30 - should we have taken the deal?
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Post by socrates on Aug 5, 2017 13:00:46 GMT
Of course he is he's Gas . Come on Rovers !!!
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Post by Strange Gas on Aug 5, 2017 13:02:48 GMT
Surely some mistake, he's run off, lost interest, skint, in hiding, wearing red and white striped top and funny hat? Cant be him . . .
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Post by knowall on Aug 5, 2017 13:35:25 GMT
Huh? No UWE are the sellers If the buyers and the sellers cannot agree on a price and/or other conditions - the buyers walk away - and yes - I have walked away on several occasions after paying surveyors etc if the deal is not right for me - no point in carrying on regardless better to look at other options But you didn't have those other options ready before you pulled out? Exactly. So why do you expect us to have Plan B ready because this deal has fallen through? And if UWE are sellers why is it wrong that I've said we're the buyers??? you seem to be getting various posts mixed up - suggest you put down the bottle and sober up
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Post by peterparker on Aug 5, 2017 13:44:04 GMT
We've three choices if we want to progress, agree a deal with the UWE, re-develop the Mem or find an alternative site, if we don't know how much the latter two will cost how can we say the UWE project is not viable? I can't show the ALQ's don't know the cost but I was simply responded to your suggestion it would be wrong to investigate the costs before the UWE was dead. What we don't know is if the UWE is really dead and, if it is, whether a lot of work has been carried out on Plan B or none at all, SH's comments about pp on the Mem implies the latter. If we dont have options, UWE cans still be finacially unviable
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Post by LJG on Aug 5, 2017 13:51:21 GMT
But you didn't have those other options ready before you pulled out? Exactly. So why do you expect us to have Plan B ready because this deal has fallen through? And if UWE are sellers why is it wrong that I've said we're the buyers??? you seem to be getting various posts mixed up - suggest you put down the bottle and sober up You used the analogy of a house buyer. I said we're the buyers. You said "No. UWE are the sellers". I can't see what I said was wrong which caused you to respond "Huh? No." Going back: You said we should have had a plan B before we pulled out of the UWE. I asked how much it would cost and how long it would take to have a plan B. You said you've pulled out of bad property deals to look at other options. I said you are admitting that you pulled out of bad property deals without having plan B ready. I asked why you expect BRFC to have Plan B ready when you admit that's not advice you've followed yourself. Clear enough?
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