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Post by oldmarket65 on Nov 25, 2017 12:14:16 GMT
Lots of posts still making the assumption that we have very rich owners.But have we seen any evidence of their mega-wealth since they pitched up last year? UWE aside, getting on with developing the Colony would have given us all a huge positive statement about their intentions and ability to financially commit. Like him or hate him, Lansdown’s wealth, and how he made it, is pretty transparent. The AQ’s could at least give some indication that they are for real. We know that these days in football, owners need more emotion and less financial common sense than is normal in any other industry. We have an investment banker holding the purse strings who appears not to “get” the football business. Conclusion - sadly, we have the wrong owners. No there is no evidence !. But fans need to understand that since D.C took over 3 years ago . He have roughly spent the same on transfers as he made on sells eg: Taylor Smith Wilson Santos ( PLUS adds on for previous transfers) . So the questions need to be asked above any manager(s) . We can't keep sacking good managers because they are given 'shoestring budgets' or expected to sell the best players to raise money. But at least we know our condition which historically is the 'same' as it's always been. We can now support D.C and the players .
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2017 12:28:56 GMT
Until we regularly sell out the Mem, we can't justify a new stadium. Rovers fans that turn up at Wembley need to start turning up every week at home. There is no evidence that "build it and they will come" works! 8,000 of us get what we can afford. A winning team fills the ground. If you need evidence look no further than Swansea, Reading, Brighton, Wigan, Hull, even our red neighbours have higher attendances since their rebuild. It just so happens that it often coincides with a winning team, as that feel good factor creates a buzz. I'm not sure that regenerating stand by stand would have that effect though unfortunately. Going into a brand new finished stadium does have a big instant effect that's true. Swansea were not selling out though whilst in the lower divisions in that stadium nor were Reading or Wigan. Bristol City are actually an example of a club that DID rebuild stand by stand...and there crowds have risen a bit since. The key is having a finished article plan...which fans can see. Then you can build it bit by bit. Wolves did that.Manchester united and Liverpool did that,as did Chelsea ,Crytsal Palace ,WBA etc etc etc you get the idea.
Everything is about presentation. Showing fans where you want to be in the future and then showing them the steps that will occur to achieve that.
Like I have mentioned elsewhere The Al Qadi family or steve Hamer need to put on a full presentation of what the future plans and aims are and the steps the club will make in getting there eventually.
Its all hindsight but if the club had said....
THE COLONY. This year we hope to purchase land to develop a training and academy site on. Once purchased a long term projection plan of the site will be developed . The first steps of securing the site and then applying for the initial stages would occur. Once the basic plans have got permission work will start on those minimal requirement things. After another year the site will be ready for the club to move onto in a limited capacity.
This will remain until other aspects of the club and stadium have reached certain levels when it will then become possible to continue the expansion of the Colony site. The target for this will be within five years but this has to remain flexible.
The same could then be done for other aspects of the club and stadium. Showing artists impressions etc.
Its even possible that a share scheme type thing alongside fan donations etc could go towards developing the Colony.(?)
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Post by Colyton Gas on Nov 25, 2017 12:43:38 GMT
Think a good performance to-day will cheer us all up.In the early 80's we had a new stadium application at Kingswood rejected.It was to be constructed sunken into the ground so as to minimise noise pollution but a then Swindon Director who was involved in our application told me at Maine Road when I was officiating how devastated he was with the rejection.He was clearly upset having put a lot of work into our planning application. We were told then that we 'Must be patient'.Many years later we are still being urged to 'Be patient'.72 now and have to accept that having watched the Gas since the 50's I won't be around for any new build that may -or may never- happen.But Hey ,'Be patient'. When we were told to choose season ticket seats at Cheltenham for 2 years I realised that with no demolishing taking place for the Mem to be re-built and no contractors actually having been signed up perhaps my Cheltenham choice of seat might not be actually needed.We were told the Mem hadn't been demolished ready for the New Build as the players needed somewhere to meet prior to games!!!!.That too as we all know proved to be another failed mission but we did pay into a share scheme to keep us afloat.Then we had the 'Watertight' Nick Higgs Sainsbury's deal' and now more failure to improve our ramshackle infrastructure. But Hey,'Be Patient' Think my Grandson who is 3,will be told the same when he's 72!!!!!!!!
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Post by toddy1953 on Nov 25, 2017 12:54:47 GMT
Whilst I believed tha Al Qadis are a wealthy family, I never saw any evidence to suggest billionaire status suggested by some. Moreover, the wealthy do not hold their wealth in cash, it will be tied up in investments and properties and so their millions may not be readily available to spend so cash funding of the club may not be straight forward even if the will is there. It's clear that the club was bought for Wael perhaps to keep him occupied and now we know that not all the family members see the purchase in the same way which must create some tension between the brothers. Hamer and DC listened to Wael's aspirations for the club but now we know the decisions are really Hani's to make and communication with Hani appears difficult. We knew Wael wanted a new modern stadium, state of the art training facility, a development squad etc. and was in for the long-haul but we don't know how Hani saw things and how much of the family's wealth he was willing to spend to keep his little brother happy. We still don't know how Hani see things and unless someone develops a proper business plan then Hani will continue to tighten the purse strings. I cannot see Hani putting up a couple of million each year without knowing there is a plan to get the club finances into a sustainable position. I caanot see Hani or indeed anyone with a brain just squandering millions each year without a plan and clear direction of travel for the club. To develop a plan you need expertise, knowledge of football finances, honest communication between owners and management and a clear shared vision backed up with realism. What is that vision and plan now? None of this is in place at the moment and until it is then we operate on a short-term basis with little hope of anything improving. The lack of any real plan has been the issue, I feel, all along. Hani probably didn't think that Wael's toy needed so many expensive accessories to make it fully functional. At some point we either need a sugar daddy to build at UWE or elsewhere & be prepared not to see a 'return' on their investment for 20 years ( if at all ). If there is someone out there then now is the time to chuck their hat in the ring. If there is no one then DS need to have a plan ASAP as we are losing too much money year on year. We may be in a better, more stable place than 20 months ago due to more wealthy owners - but for how long? sh** or get off the pot springs to mind!
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Post by dinsdale on Nov 25, 2017 12:57:51 GMT
When you know for sure you are going nowhere as a club its hard to have the motivation to keep going for some fans. Expect a big drop in gates and season tickets
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Post by baggins on Nov 25, 2017 13:05:53 GMT
When you know for sure you are going nowhere as a club its hard to have the motivation to keep going for some fans. Expect a big drop in gates and season tickets Did they drop that much when we went into the Conference? Fans keep threating massive drops in attendance, but we always have a hard core set of at least 6k.
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 25, 2017 13:24:32 GMT
Surely that depends. By all accounts they have put 12m into the club just in order to get it in sort of shape So there is some finance isnt there? They never said they were foing to drop 40m+ off their own money into a stadium or anything on top As far as I can see, in rounded terms, the £12 million has been spent to pay off the former directors loans (£4.5 million) pay off the MSP Capital loan (£2.7 million) pay part of the 2016 losses ( £1 million) pay for the subsequent 17 months trading losses (£2.8 million) and make a loan to Dwane Colony to buy the training ground land (£1 million) It looks as though we are losing £2 million per year so the loan owing to Dwane Sports will increase by that amount every year until Hani decides the marathon is over. The best solution IMO is for Dwane Sports to seriously seek outside investment and be willing to capitalise their loan and sacrifice their majority stake. If they are not prepared to do that then I think they should forget about the Colony and mothball it, lease or share a suitable medium term training ground and concentrate all available resources on getting to the Championship where the EFL funding increases from £1.3 million pa to £6.4 million pa. Geoff alluded to this solution right at the end of the interview. One thing which fans could do, and which would help put our minds at rest, is to ask Dwane Sports to give a sign of their good faith by committing that they will not sell the Mem before first having secured another, commercially acceptable, home for Rovers. Well reasoned post and I can see where you are coming from. I would add a caveat to your £2m calculations though, this is based on a rounded £12m figure from someone who until Thursday was seen as disingenuous but is now taken at face value. We don't know how it breaks down and he could be referring to agreed (committed) future spend too which takes us up to the end the accounting year or perhaps ring fenced funds for the initial Colony development which will be realised when it does eventually start. With regards to the stadium assurances, there is reference in the accounts that the monies committed won't need to be repaid until the football club is able to do so. Now this is vague and can mean anything to the reader but it is probably as best as we can expect at the moment. I totally agree with a point you make in a later post that people should be more interested in the financial side, but only having access to limited and dated information it is easy to misunderstand the present situation although rigorous questionning can go a long way.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2017 13:24:51 GMT
When you know for sure you are going nowhere as a club its hard to have the motivation to keep going for some fans. Expect a big drop in gates and season tickets Did they drop that much when we went into the Conference? Fans keep threating massive drops in attendance, but we always have a hard core set of at least 6k. But a drop of 2500 in crowds means the loss increases by over a half a million £ unless budgets are cut.
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Post by baggins on Nov 25, 2017 13:33:00 GMT
Did they drop that much when we went into the Conference? Fans keep threating massive drops in attendance, but we always have a hard core set of at least 6k. But a drop of 2500 in crowds means the loss increases by over a half a million £ unless budgets are cut. That's always been the case, we've always been in the red as far as the clubs accounts are concerned. But have we really dropped 2.5k on attendance? Or ever will?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2017 13:36:36 GMT
We're not in debt to Hani, are we. We're in debt to Dwane and Wael is part of Dwane. You know this. LOL, you must be the only firom member who doesn't see that Hani holds the purse strings for the family or, if he doesn't, that's the impression SH is trying to give, at the end of day like any business somebody as to make the final decisions, it just seems our luck it's Hani and not Wael. As I've said if SH is misrepresenting the true position then Hani or Wael really need to come out and say before we find ourselves back in Div 2 with season ticket sales back to the norm. We got Sami as well he's a gashead.Him and Wael could go it alone.
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Post by knowall on Nov 25, 2017 14:46:11 GMT
Lots of posts still making the assumption that we have very rich owners.But have we seen any evidence of their mega-wealth since they pitched up last year? UWE aside, getting on with developing the Colony would have given us all a huge positive statement about their intentions and ability to financially commit. Like him or hate him, Lansdown’s wealth, and how he made it, is pretty transparent. The AQ’s could at least give some indication that they are for real. We know that these days in football, owners need more emotion and less financial common sense than is normal in any other industry. We have an investment banker holding the purse strings who appears not to “get” the football business. Conclusion - sadly, we have the wrong owners. No there is no evidence !. But fans need to understand that since D.C took over 3 years ago . He have roughly spent the same on transfers as he made on sells eg: Taylor Smith Wilson Santos ( PLUS adds on for previous transfers) . So the questions need to be asked above any manager(s) . We can't keep sacking good managers because they are given 'shoestring budgets' or expected to sell the best players to raise money. But at least we know our condition which historically is the 'same' as it's always been. We can now support D.C and the players . Having paid out £12 million so far makes them fairly rich and I suppose it depends on your meaning of 'very' that determines whether they are really rich!
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Post by oldmarket65 on Nov 25, 2017 15:12:32 GMT
No there is no evidence !. But fans need to understand that since D.C took over 3 years ago . He have roughly spent the same on transfers as he made on sells eg: Taylor Smith Wilson Santos ( PLUS adds on for previous transfers) . So the questions need to be asked above any manager(s) . We can't keep sacking good managers because they are given 'shoestring budgets' or expected to sell the best players to raise money. But at least we know our condition which historically is the 'same' as it's always been. We can now support D.C and the players . Having paid out £12 million so far makes them fairly rich and I suppose it depends on your meaning of 'very' that determines whether they are really rich! Of course if you buy out a company / organisation this involves settling previous debts ; shares : personal investments etc. This allows you majority shares or even outright ownership. It even means you can sell this company at a later date if you wish. So who owns the MEM now and can it be sold or used against for profit ?. My point is there is little evidence on the playing side or ground upgrades any more money is going in than the last 20-30 years. I mean in 1990 our squad was worth close to £1 million ( Ellington Roberts Cureton Foster Tilson ) as an example...
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Post by knowall on Nov 25, 2017 15:41:02 GMT
Thought I’d just bump my post because as far as I can see nobody’s given me an answer which considering the amount of negativity towards the board I thought some would have. I’ll say it again , are we in a better position now than when Higgs sold the club ? This is my take on it socrates I did see your post but put my thoughts in a reply to knowall. "Prior to the take over Rovers were about £7 million in debt to the directors/shareholders and MSP Capital, losing about £1 million per year and with no plan of how to go forward. Steve Hamer confirmed yesterday that Rovers are now £12 million in debt to Dwane Sports Ltd, losing about £2 million per year and with no plan of how to go forward. I should say the financial situation now is considerably worse than it was in January 2016 but the question for Rovers fans is what should we do ?" Even taking into account the deteriorated financial situation we could be much more optimistic about the bigger picture if only Dwane Sports, from the start, had come up with a properly written down plan and vision to give us some hope. They didn't do that, the stadium consultants soon disappeared, and it drifted on until the UWE cancellation was revealed in August. Since then they have had three months to come up with something new and I think most of us thought Steve Hamer was going to tell us about that yesterday but what we heard from him was terribly disappointing. I understand some fans think it's rude and disrespectful to question the owners but, believe me, if a business owner is confident about what he is doing and has a clearly defined plan he'll be pleased to answer constructive questions and be proud to set out his vision. As this appears to be addressed to me I will reply. I would prefer to owe £12million to DS than any amount to an aggressive lender to whom we had no way of repaying. (all the previous Board had run out of the desire and maybe the money to fund anymore) Having said that I cannot dispute your thoughts re a plan, however, to be fair, this has obviously (to me) come about because DS were either fed misinformation about the UWE deal or UWE changed their stance when somebody mentioned 'billionaires'. I am sure Mr West is now looking towards Guernsey for a 'billionaire'! I am sure a plan will emerge in due course and it may not be the one we all hope for, but without a plan (short term and long term) no business should survive let alone prosper. We have to understand that it is not an easy project to re-invent a realistic plan when another has just collapsed. The assurance by Hamer that DS are funding at a certain level is good news, and I believe we will probably have to wait until the new year for an update because whilst many are asking for news re the Colony and transfers - these surely cannot be taken in isolation and the Colony, transfers and stadium have to be interlinked.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2017 22:55:33 GMT
But a drop of 2500 in crowds means the loss increases by over a half a million £ unless budgets are cut. That's always been the case, we've always been in the red as far as the clubs accounts are concerned. But have we really dropped 2.5k on attendance? Or ever will? Baggins it was you who spoke of the hard-core 6000.
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Post by baggins on Nov 26, 2017 6:06:05 GMT
That's always been the case, we've always been in the red as far as the clubs accounts are concerned. But have we really dropped 2.5k on attendance? Or ever will? Baggins it was you who spoke of the hard-core 6000. Yes, and? I reckon we do have that sort of number who regularly attend or at least can count on to attend. I'm not sure I get what your reply meant.
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Post by oldgas on Nov 26, 2017 7:55:16 GMT
Please provide proof of this fax I know our club is a bit sh**, but surely even we're on board with these electronic, or "E" mails that I've heard about. Sorry, can't do that; it was an email!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 20:15:13 GMT
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Post by seanclevedongas on Nov 29, 2017 21:04:49 GMT
Another crap article stating we one promotion to League one via the play offs! did we? I missed that and dreamed Lee Brown sent us up automatically
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Post by gashead1981 on Nov 29, 2017 21:07:52 GMT
Just a rehash of last weeks interview.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Nov 29, 2017 22:12:20 GMT
To be fair, it was written just after last weeks interview (24th)
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