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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 20:04:09 GMT
I keep reading on here that DC's recruitment is his weakness. Rather than just blithely accepting this as fact, I thought I'd go back over the players that have come and gone with fees involved since he took charge with 6 games left if that fateful relegation season.
The success or otherwise of his record is subjective of course, but the other problem with this is the fees listed as "undisclosed" (really don't like that!). Where this is the case, I've recorded either the generally accepted figure or suggested what is hopefully a realistic estimate where this is not clear. Accuracy is therefore impossible, but hopefully a general picture appears:
In: Puddy Slocombe Smith Andre Leadbitter Trotman J Clarke Hartley Harris Burn - 50k Partington - 85k Broadbent Menayese Mansell Gosling Lines Monkhouse Sinclair Balanta Bell-Baggie Montano Bodin Lawrence Moore Sercombe - 150 Taylor White Easter Blissett - 80k Gaffney - 60k Fallon Nichols - 350k
Out: O'Toole Clarkson Santos Broghammer Parkes Hartley Gosling McChrystal Mansell Mildenhall Puddy Monkhouse Balanta Bell-Baggie Trotman Smith - 50k Wilson - 50k Fallon Harris Lyttle Easter Taylor - 300k Montano White Lucas
Estimated net spend: 375k
So, a net spend of approximately just £375k over 3.5 seasons, ridded the club of much of what took us down, some cracking free signings (Sincs, Bodin, Leads, Mansell, Monkhouse, Easter, Lines etc), 2 promotions, highest league position in 17 years, some really good football at times, and a manager that 'gets' us.
What are we complaining about? Is he the best we've had? For me (to quote the man himself!), for me, he's the best since Gerry. Let's get off his back and enjoy the bloke while he's here. I fear it may not be long before he's feels he's done as much as any manager could at this club.
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Post by warehamgas on Dec 3, 2017 20:11:02 GMT
Interesting list, thanks for the work 1970. Can’t disagree with your conclusions. UTG!
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Dec 3, 2017 20:18:44 GMT
Anyone who signed White, Moore, James and Nichols deserves some scrutiny surely?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 20:31:38 GMT
Anyone who signed White, Moore, James and Nichols deserves some scrutiny surely? Every manager in history has made poor signings. Alex Ferguson should presumably come under scrutiny for signing Djema-Djemba, Obertan, Bellion, Taiby, Ralph Milne etc.....?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 20:41:39 GMT
I think the net spend figure is a fair bit lower. When Smith left for P'Boro the club statement said is was an undisclosed fee six figure fee. As he was under contract, current player of the year and named in the PFA team of the year I'd have thought it would have been nearer to £250k?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 20:42:46 GMT
Anyone who signed White, Moore, James and Nichols deserves some scrutiny surely? Definitely. But the poor signings are more than outweighed by the good ones imo. And jury is still out on Nichols...he may yet come good.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 20:50:41 GMT
I think the net spend figure is a fair bit lower. When Smith left for P'Boro the club statement said is was an undisclosed fee six figure fee. As he was under contract, current player of the year and named in the PFA team of the year I'd have thought it would have been nearer to £250k? You could well be right. I'm unashamedly a DC fan and am conscious not to over-exaggerate the plus points of his record. Would be so much easier if fees were published!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 20:55:02 GMT
MY assessment on scale Poor, OK, Good, Excellent and promising when they are development signings Strikes me as a mixed bag, some shockers, some Ok other good and a couple of Excellents.
Puddy - Poor Slocombe - OK Smith - OK Andre - Promising Leadbitter - Good Trotman - OK J Clarke - OK/ Good Hartley - OK Harris - Poor Burn - 50k - Poor Partington - 85k - Good Broadbent - Promising Menayese - Promising Mansell - Good Gosling - OK Lines - Good Monkhouse - Good Sinclair - Good Balanta - Poor Bell-Baggie - Poor Montano - OK Bodin - Excellent Lawrence - Poor Moore - Poor Sercombe - 150 - Good Taylor - Excellent White - Poor Easter - Good Blissett - 80k - Poor Gaffney - 60k - Good Fallon - Poor Nichols - 350k - Have to wait and see but Poor at present
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 20:57:35 GMT
Once DC has a player seems to know when to let them go as none have gone on to really excel at another club.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 21:05:02 GMT
MY assessment on scale Poor, OK, Good, Excellent and promising when they are development signings Strikes me as a mixed bag, some shockers, some Ok other good and a couple of Excellents. Puddy - Poor Slocombe - OK Smith - OK Andre - Promising Leadbitter - Good Trotman - OK J Clarke - OK/ Good Hartley - OK Harris - Poor Burn - 50k - Poor Partington - 85k - Good Broadbent - Promising Menayese - Promising Mansell - Good Gosling - OK Lines - Good Monkhouse - Good Sinclair - Good Balanta - Poor Bell-Baggie - Poor Montano - OK Bodin - Excellent Lawrence - Poor Moore - Poor Sercombe - 150 - Good Taylor - Excellent White - Poor Easter - Good Blissett - 80k - Poor Gaffney - 60k - Good Fallon - Poor Nichols - 350k - Have to wait and see but Poor at present Some of the 'Poor' ones could be seen as forgivable. I'm thinking of Harris, Bell-Baggie, Balanta and Fallon who I believe were all unattached free agents and possibly all outside of the window? They were all on very short deals presumably for low wages so although they were failures were a low risk, long odds gamble worth taking.
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Post by mariobalotelli on Dec 3, 2017 21:19:19 GMT
Anyone who signed White, Moore, James and Nichols deserves some scrutiny surely? Why? White had a very good record before making the switch to us. James had potential on the back of looking good at Hartlepool, and Nichols was Pboros top scorer last season and whilst he's not scored a lot he's a good player - obviously it's the goals that counts though. Moore I'll give you but he was clearly a lot better before the death of his brother, according to other clubs anyhow. For a free transfer it was probably worth a shot but it hasn't paid off.
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Post by mariobalotelli on Dec 3, 2017 21:23:09 GMT
IMO the "failures", so to speak are Harris, Burn, Lawrence, White & Moore.
Others, such as Bell-Baggie and Fallon didn't really get game time.
"Weaker" players, such as Gosling, Balanta and Montana all did decent jobs for us at the level they were with us at. No matter how little they contributed, they provided to our success over the last 3 years alike the rest of the players not mentioned.
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Post by oldmarket65 on Dec 3, 2017 21:38:08 GMT
I keep reading on here that DC's recruitment is his weakness. Rather than just blithely accepting this as fact, I thought I'd go back over the players that have come and gone with fees involved since he took charge with 6 games left if that fateful relegation season. The success or otherwise of his record is subjective of course, but the other problem with this is the fees listed as "undisclosed" (really don't like that!). Where this is the case, I've recorded either the generally accepted figure or suggested what is hopefully a realistic estimate where this is not clear. Accuracy is therefore impossible, but hopefully a general picture appears: In: Puddy Slocombe Smith Andre Leadbitter Trotman J Clarke Hartley Harris Burn - 50k Partington - 85k Broadbent Menayese Mansell Gosling Lines Monkhouse Sinclair Balanta Bell-Baggie Montano Bodin Lawrence Moore Sercombe - 150 Taylor White Easter Blissett - 80k Gaffney - 60k Fallon Nichols - 350k Out: O'Toole Clarkson Santos Broghammer Parkes Hartley Gosling McChrystal Mansell Mildenhall Puddy Monkhouse Balanta Bell-Baggie Trotman Smith - 50k Wilson - 50k Fallon Harris Lyttle Easter Taylor - 300k Montano White Lucas Estimated net spend: 375k So, a net spend of approximately just £375k over 3.5 seasons, ridded the club of much of what took us down, some cracking free signings (Sincs, Bodin, Leads, Mansell, Monkhouse, Easter, Lines etc), 2 promotions, highest league position in 17 years, some really good football at times, and a manager that 'gets' us. What are we complaining about? Is he the best we've had? For me (to quote the man himself!), for me, he's the best since Gerry. Let's get off his back and enjoy the bloke while he's here. I fear it may not be long before he's feels he's done as much as any manager could at this club.
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Post by aghast on Dec 3, 2017 21:45:39 GMT
Out: O'Toole Clarkson Santos Broghammer Parkes Hartley Gosling McChrystal Mansell Mildenhall Puddy Monkhouse Balanta Bell-Baggie Trotman Smith - 50k Wilson - 50k Fallon Harris Lyttle Easter Taylor - 300k Montano White Lucas WYHHB WYHHB WYHHB WYHHB WYHHB WYHHB WYHHB WYHHB WYHHB WYHHB WYHHB WYHHB WYHHB WYHHB WYHHB WYHHB NOT THE SNAKE WYHHB WYHHB WYHHB
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Post by oldmarket65 on Dec 3, 2017 21:50:36 GMT
Thank you for this long list of players since D.C have taken over. However: your net estimated expenditure of £ 375:000 is about £250:000 too much. Firstly: the transfer of Smith amounted closer to £200:000 in total ( including add on's). Why didn't you include the fee set by the tribunal for Alfie Santos to Championship Derby County ?. And were is the evidence we paid £350:000 for Nichols ?.
Either way D.C haven't even spent a net expenditure of £150:000 since he took over and reports suggest £135k net. When you think Swindon Town have spent close to £500:000 on two strikers this season. You can understand why many people outside of our club are asking : " Is this a wind up even questioning D.C ?.
I can safety say Tranmere and Orient would pay 5 times our net fee;s to be were we are.
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Post by gasify on Dec 3, 2017 21:59:47 GMT
DC himself put £135k as the figure in his pre Rotherham interview.
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Post by oldmarket65 on Dec 3, 2017 22:01:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 22:29:51 GMT
Thank you for this long list of players since D.C have taken over. However: your net estimated expenditure of £ 375:000 is about £250:000 too much. Firstly: the transfer of Smith amounted closer to £200:000 in total ( including add on's). Why didn't you include the fee set by the tribunal for Alfie Santos to Championship Derby County ?. And were is the evidence we paid £350:000 for Nichols ?. Either way D.C haven't even spent a net expenditure of £150:000 since he took over and reports suggest £135k net. When you think Swindon Town have spent close to £500:000 on two strikers this season. You can understand why many people outside of our club are asking : " Is this a wind up even questioning D.C ?. I can safety say Tranmere and Orient would pay 5 times our net fee;s to be were we are. Tbh, I didn't realise we'd got a fee for Santos, nor that Peterboro paid so much for Smith. The Nichols figure is purely what appears to be a generally accepted amount on this forum, but you're right, there is no evidence where fees are undisclosed. Whatever the exact figures though, there's little doubt in my mind that DC has hugely over achieved given the relatively small outlay. Which makes him an extremely attractive proposition for a lot of clubs...
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Post by warehamgas on Dec 3, 2017 22:42:55 GMT
MY assessment on scale Poor, OK, Good, Excellent and promising when they are development signings Strikes me as a mixed bag, some shockers, some Ok other good and a couple of Excellents. Puddy - Poor Slocombe - OK Smith - OK Andre - Promising Leadbitter - Good Trotman - OK J Clarke - OK/ Good Hartley - OK Harris - Poor Burn - 50k - Poor Partington - 85k - Good Broadbent - Promising Menayese - Promising Mansell - Good Gosling - OK Lines - Good Monkhouse - Good Sinclair - Good Balanta - Poor Bell-Baggie - Poor Montano - OK Bodin - Excellent Lawrence - Poor Moore - Poor Sercombe - 150 - Good Taylor - Excellent White - Poor Easter - Good Blissett - 80k - Poor Gaffney - 60k - Good Fallon - Poor Nichols - 350k - Have to wait and see but Poor at present Well done for going through that list. A few observations. When talking about the signings made in 2014, White, Gosling, Balanta especially we were definitely shopping at Costcutters if not even a car boot sale! White had a horrendous injury history from which he has never recovered. At the time though I thought, knowing his prolific history in scoring, it was a pretty good signing. Gosling gets stick but I’ve always thought he was ok. Played a good part with a few very important goals in the Conference and an assist in the D/R to get us promoted from League 1. So I would say he was a “good” signing. As for Balanta he was a crucial signing and I would put “Excellent” against him for two things, the winner against Barnet in the last minute and the penalty at Wembley. Without the penalty we might not have won that play off. If we’d had a decent ref at Dover we might all have been saying how crucial that goal against Barnet in November had been! As it was he scored the penalty just after they had missed. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and as oldmarket says I bet Tranmere, Orient and probably Hartlepool would have liked some of those signings and be where we are! UTG!
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Post by pirate on Dec 3, 2017 22:46:10 GMT
Thank you for this long list of players since D.C have taken over. However: your net estimated expenditure of £ 375:000 is about £250:000 too much. Firstly: the transfer of Smith amounted closer to £200:000 in total ( including add on's). Why didn't you include the fee set by the tribunal for Alfie Santos to Championship Derby County ?. And were is the evidence we paid £350:000 for Nichols ?. Either way D.C haven't even spent a net expenditure of £150:000 since he took over and reports suggest £135k net. When you think Swindon Town have spent close to £500:000 on two strikers this season. You can understand why many people outside of our club are asking : " Is this a wind up even questioning D.C ?. I can safety say Tranmere and Orient would pay 5 times our net fee;s to be were we are. Tom Nichols: www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-much-bristol-rovers-paid-746738
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