stuart1974
Proper Gas
Posts: 11,532
Member is Online
|
Post by stuart1974 on Dec 28, 2017 7:49:35 GMT
Well the takeover actually gave the potential of the club being owned by people with more money than we are used to at Rovers. The training ground is still moving forward...it hasn't been abandoned ! Nobody who was formerly at Rovers could have found the funds that have been spent on trying to modernise the club over the last year.
Perhaps if many years ago Rovers actually got on with doing things they could achieve rather than the endless pie in the sky plans for things the club couldn't afford things may have ended up better ?
So maybe actually just getting on and building something modest then worrying about it "not being big enough for premier league football" when the club is actually sat in the prem...like at Bournemouth.
The last 35 years has been kept alive by dreams and hope for better things in the future. But its just been dreams the previous custodians have only ever had money raised from selling the ground to offer as money for a new stadium.Nothing else.
Yes the dream was to have something to rival or better ashton gate...but lets face it there was nothing better than rag bag rovers playing at a non league ground knocking city off the top place and taking the championship...in spite of their bigger better stadium....
What evidence do you have that the training ground is still going ahead, as there's still no signs of any plans being submitted to S Glos planners. As far as a 15K capacity stadium you talk as though that's something we can build during the summer at minimal cost, however, a decent stadium will still probably cost £30M and there's no signs the ALQ's are prepared to invest that kind of money in the club, it's just all pie in the sky as things stand at the moment. Politician's logic, Topper. If it isn't 'A' then it must be 'B'. Life isn't that black and white and variations are possible. Take the stadium for example, it is perfectly possible to fund and build a new stand then move on in time, just like the phased approach to the Colony. It would be much more self contained and for a more realistic initial outlay, something in the region of £10m I reckon for a 6,000 seat stand with retail outlets for servicing the capital expenditure. Then move on when we can. The question I have for you and others is rather than dismiss options, what is your suggestion?
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on Dec 28, 2017 8:32:14 GMT
What evidence do you have that the training ground is still going ahead, as there's still no signs of any plans being submitted to S Glos planners. As far as a 15K capacity stadium you talk as though that's something we can build during the summer at minimal cost, however, a decent stadium will still probably cost £30M and there's no signs the ALQ's are prepared to invest that kind of money in the club, it's just all pie in the sky as things stand at the moment. Politician's logic, Topper. If it isn't 'A' then it must be 'B'. Life isn't that black and white and variations are possible. Take the stadium for example, it is perfectly possible to fund and build a new stand then move on in time, just like the phased approach to the Colony. It would be much more self contained and for a more realistic initial outlay, something in the region of £10m I reckon for a 6,000 seat stand with retail outlets for servicing the capital expenditure. Then move on when we can. The question I have for you and others is rather than dismiss options, what is your suggestion? My suggestion is posters on here need to stop living in some kind of make believe word where the ALQ's are going to spend further £m's at Rovers, when all the signs are that post UWE they've stopped all major investments.
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Dec 28, 2017 8:46:31 GMT
What evidence do you have that the training ground is still going ahead, as there's still no signs of any plans being submitted to S Glos planners. As far as a 15K capacity stadium you talk as though that's something we can build during the summer at minimal cost, however, a decent stadium will still probably cost £30M and there's no signs the ALQ's are prepared to invest that kind of money in the club, it's just all pie in the sky as things stand at the moment. Politician's logic, Topper. If it isn't 'A' then it must be 'B'. Life isn't that black and white and variations are possible. Take the stadium for example, it is perfectly possible to fund and build a new stand then move on in time, just like the phased approach to the Colony. It would be much more self contained and for a more realistic initial outlay, something in the region of £10m I reckon for a 6,000 seat stand with retail outlets for servicing the capital expenditure. Then move on when we can. The question I have for you and others is rather than dismiss options, what is your suggestion? I don't necessarily agree that in order to dismiss an option, you must have a suggestion. You don't have to be an expert to know something is broken, but you may need to be to be able to fix it.
|
|
|
Post by blueridge on Dec 28, 2017 9:04:05 GMT
What evidence do you have that the training ground is still going ahead, as there's still no signs of any plans being submitted to S Glos planners. As far as a 15K capacity stadium you talk as though that's something we can build during the summer at minimal cost, however, a decent stadium will still probably cost £30M and there's no signs the ALQ's are prepared to invest that kind of money in the club, it's just all pie in the sky as things stand at the moment. Politician's logic, Topper. If it isn't 'A' then it must be 'B'. Life isn't that black and white and variations are possible. Take the stadium for example, it is perfectly possible to fund and build a new stand then move on in time, just like the phased approach to the Colony. It would be much more self contained and for a more realistic initial outlay, something in the region of £10m I reckon for a 6,000 seat stand with retail outlets for servicing the capital expenditure. Then move on when we can. The question I have for you and others is rather than dismiss options, what is your suggestion? Has there been one positive statement from the club since August 3rd or even beyond that date to suggest they will be spending anything like £10m any time soon? If they communicated and told the fan base what their vision was perhaps we as supporters would start buying into it. As far as I'm concerned they have until the end of January - it will be a sad day for me if I feel then that I won't be renewing my season ticket for next season.
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Dec 28, 2017 9:08:16 GMT
Politician's logic, Topper. If it isn't 'A' then it must be 'B'. Life isn't that black and white and variations are possible. Take the stadium for example, it is perfectly possible to fund and build a new stand then move on in time, just like the phased approach to the Colony. It would be much more self contained and for a more realistic initial outlay, something in the region of £10m I reckon for a 6,000 seat stand with retail outlets for servicing the capital expenditure. Then move on when we can. The question I have for you and others is rather than dismiss options, what is your suggestion? Has there been one positive statement from the club since August 3rd or even beyond that date to suggest they will be spending anything like £10m any time soon? If they communicated and told the fan base what their vision was perhaps we as supporters would start buying into it. As far as I'm concerned they have until the end of January - it will be a sad day for me if I feel then that I won't be renewing my season ticket for next season. Must be honest, I'm starting to wonder if I will either. If the owners can't be arsed, why should I be?
|
|
|
Post by Squiffy on Dec 28, 2017 9:16:17 GMT
Politician's logic, Topper. If it isn't 'A' then it must be 'B'. Life isn't that black and white and variations are possible. Take the stadium for example, it is perfectly possible to fund and build a new stand then move on in time, just like the phased approach to the Colony. It would be much more self contained and for a more realistic initial outlay, something in the region of £10m I reckon for a 6,000 seat stand with retail outlets for servicing the capital expenditure. Then move on when we can. The question I have for you and others is rather than dismiss options, what is your suggestion? My suggestion is posters on here need to stop living in some kind of make believe word where the ALQ's are going to spend further £m's at Rovers, when all the signs are that post UWE they've stopped all major investments. I don’t believe it has stopped, just that a whole new business plan is being put together based on the Mem, and stress testing the different financial models doesn’t happen overnight. Multi million pound projects aren’t something you rush into with the hope that it will turn out alright, and the AQs would be fools if they did. If external investment is required, as we suspect it is, then a compelling case has to be put together to convince others of the security of their capital and potential return, and that doesn’t usually relate to the punters interests like the quality of the pasties or if you can understand the bing-bong man. Frustrating as it is for us fans, it really is a case of giving the management sufficient time to get a viable project together. High level optioneering can happen quite quickly but it’s not unreasonable for a scheme the size and complexity of a stadium to have something like an 18 month gestation period. There is a lot to cover and phasing adds a whole new layer of issues with regards to maintaining a safe working stadium and building site. If we hear something before the end of the season I will be pleasantly surprised.
|
|
|
Post by daniel300380 on Dec 28, 2017 9:19:27 GMT
The season so far has left most Rovers fans unhappy about one thing or the other and generally wanting or demanding more. However should we step back a moment and actually look at what Bristol Rovers football club actually is and who is similar out there.
If we do this then we can aim to make the ground and facilities the best compared to those whose history we parallel . Then the team can strive to improve our standing and thus competitors to compare against.
Firstly...we have to accept that BRFC have never played in the top flight ,so we should only compare ourselves to clubs who have also never reached that level. Secondly ,we should look firstly at clubs who have similar balances across the divisions as BRFC.
So all said and done the list of most similar clubs are...
CLUB-------------TIER 1----TIER 2----TIER 3-----TIER 4-----TIER 5 (and below)
Bristol Rovers------0----------20--------59----------10----------1 Chesterfield--------0----------20--------58----------21 Tranmere Rovers--0----------11--------58----------18-----------2 Walsall-------------0----------15--------73-----------9 Rotherham Utd----0----------30--------48----------13 Doncaster Rovers-0----------19---------33----------33 Southend Utd------0----------8---------57-----------25
Others similar but not close enough being Stockport county ,Crewe Alex. , Plymouth Arg , Port vale , Lincoln City. (some with better records some with worse)
So how do Rovers compare with those clubs off the field ?
Would the first achievement moving forward not to be to ensure BRFC have a better stadium and training set up than Chesterfield ,Walsall ,Tranmere ,Rotherham ,Doncaster and Southend ?
To give the team the footing to take the club upwards to find new teams to compare with ?
So a 15,000 all seater stadium with a decent training ground will do that.
It should be noted that only Burton in the championship have not played in the top flight in their history. When you consider most of the crowds teams like Barnsley ,QPR , PNE get for example would fit into a 15,000 stadium .
Trying to compare or match with City is silly they have a different history on the field.
tier 1 =9 tier 2 =49 tier 3=45 tier 4=2.
As someone said...lets forget about Bristol city (for now) and start doing better than our real current competitors.
Don't recall c**y 1982 ever being in the top flight? The old club that went bust might have done, but didn't think go bust a few years later? So they obviously over spent lol
|
|
|
Post by socrates on Dec 29, 2017 20:10:50 GMT
I'm surprised how short we are now selling ourselves..If we were doing well in league 1 we would easily fill 15k stadium...and that is what I think we are all hoping for a nice ground and good things on the pitch come together. IF, and a big if I know, we were to build why not maximise. If we were to get promoted *dreaming* to the championship I think we would sell out every week in 15k - great we are selling out but think we would be missing out on a few more thousand. It's all with the board now anyway, us fans are massively in the dark I think the best thing would be for the family to sell up if they aren't willing to invest their own money. Amazingly for successful businessmen they have under estimated what running s football club would cost. We will have to agree to differ on our fan pulling power,we might sell out a few times in a promotion season into the championship. Bottom half of the championship average gate? about 12k at best for me but respect your alternative view. In a new stadium with better facilities I think we’d be getting about the following. Bottom half league 1 - 7-9k Top half league 1 9-12k Top six promotion push 10-14k Struggling championship 8-10k Average championship 10-14k Top half promotion push 14-18k I think 18,000 capacity would be better than 15k just because if and when we do ever get in the championship we don’t want to be held back from pushing on again and I think we could get more than 15k if we were top half of the championship. But for now I’d just settle for three or four good standard league 1 players with some leadership skills to get us out of any impending relegation scrap. As for the stadium it’s all pie in the sky until I actually see the builders start work until then I try to ignore it the best I can and concentrate on just supporting my team. There’s been too many false dawns.
|
|
|
Post by chilly1883 on Dec 29, 2017 20:52:58 GMT
Until our owners, give us a proper vision of where we'll be in 5 years, I won't expect Anything to happen. We will still be having these mundane chats about, "where we might be" . I'm totally bored about now. It's who we are 👍
|
|
|
Post by gasincider on Dec 29, 2017 21:42:02 GMT
Has there been one positive statement from the club since August 3rd or even beyond that date to suggest they will be spending anything like £10m any time soon? If they communicated and told the fan base what their vision was perhaps we as supporters would start buying into it. As far as I'm concerned they have until the end of January - it will be a sad day for me if I feel then that I won't be renewing my season ticket for next season. Must be honest, I'm starting to wonder if I will either. If the owners can't be arsed, why should I be? Perhaps because you are supposed to be a gashead which they most certainly are not.
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on Dec 29, 2017 22:42:57 GMT
This has been posted on another thread in the forum, I guess the improving facilities comments relates to the new club shop and toilets, if so, I guess we'd better lower our expectations, just the 82er's are raising there's! Dec 29, 2017 19:51:26 GMT aghast said: Interesting post from vaughan on the other forum: "So I have had a very interesting exchange of mails with Steve Hamer in last 24 hours. I thank him for his responsiveness on matters of concern. The headlines are: There is no cap on finance from Dwayne Sports, as reported. There will be no financial Armageddon in March 2018 The training ground will be built as already indicated There is optimism about improving facilities especially as there is a recognised need Dwayne Sports are NOT looking for outside investment from supporters groups, although it has been mentioned and quickly discarded by them Dwayne Sports will invest when there is a business case presented but will continue to run a tight ship Dwayne Sports are bewildered by the amount of interest in their commercial matters - a cultural divide between Jordanian financiers and UK football supporters So there you go. This is consistent with what has been said already. Whatever you think, I suggest that you write to Steve if you feel strongly. UTG" Read more: gasheads.org/thread/6969/reputational-damage?page=15#ixzz52gIuPJrm
|
|
|
Post by singupgas on Dec 29, 2017 23:06:41 GMT
This has been posted on another thread in the forum, I guess the improving facilities comments relates to the new club shop and toilets, if so, I guess we'd better lower our expectations, just the 82er's are raising there's! Dec 29, 2017 19:51:26 GMT aghast said: Interesting post from vaughan on the other forum: "So I have had a very interesting exchange of mails with Steve Hamer in last 24 hours. I thank him for his responsiveness on matters of concern. The headlines are: There is no cap on finance from Dwayne Sports, as reported. There will be no financial Armageddon in March 2018 The training ground will be built as already indicated There is optimism about improving facilities especially as there is a recognised need Dwayne Sports are NOT looking for outside investment from supporters groups, although it has been mentioned and quickly discarded by them Dwayne Sports will invest when there is a business case presented but will continue to run a tight ship Dwayne Sports are bewildered by the amount of interest in their commercial matters - a cultural divide between Jordanian financiers and UK football supporters So there you go. This is consistent with what has been said already. Whatever you think, I suggest that you write to Steve if you feel strongly. UTG" Read more: gasheads.org/thread/6969/reputational-damage?page=15#ixzz52gIuPJrmThe owners might be bewildered. But perhaps that is because they don't appreciate how many Rovers stadium project have now fallen through (with little explanation) and the patience is wearing thin. Well done SH for getting back to you, gets a bit undeserved over the top criticism on here in my opinion.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 23:18:58 GMT
This has been posted on another thread in the forum, I guess the improving facilities comments relates to the new club shop and toilets, if so, I guess we'd better lower our expectations, just the 82er's are raising there's! Dec 29, 2017 19:51:26 GMT aghast said: Interesting post from vaughan on the other forum: "So I have had a very interesting exchange of mails with Steve Hamer in last 24 hours. I thank him for his responsiveness on matters of concern. The headlines are: There is no cap on finance from Dwayne Sports, as reported. There will be no financial Armageddon in March 2018 The training ground will be built as already indicated There is optimism about improving facilities especially as there is a recognised need Dwayne Sports are NOT looking for outside investment from supporters groups, although it has been mentioned and quickly discarded by them Dwayne Sports will invest when there is a business case presented but will continue to run a tight ship Dwayne Sports are bewildered by the amount of interest in their commercial matters - a cultural divide between Jordanian financiers and UK football supporters So there you go. This is consistent with what has been said already. Whatever you think, I suggest that you write to Steve if you feel strongly. UTG" Read more: gasheads.org/thread/6969/reputational-damage?page=15#ixzz52gIuPJrmEqual parts boring/depressing. Slightly re-assured that there is to be no financial collapse but on the flip side that summary smacks of extreme austerity and a future chained to a miserly ownership who will take aeons to bring us in line with the sort of infrastructure that you find at league 2/conference level. Hamer was right, we might as well forget about City, merely existing will be a good return for us for the next decade. Dwane Sports also sound desperately out of touch which also seems in line with what we already know. How can they honestly be surprised at the concern after the stadium deal collapses with no detailed explanation given and the recent comments by the manager? They never communicate which also doesn't help! Are we just to keep paying our money, watch the football, keep quiet and pray for a miracle promotion even though there is little in the way of finance or infrastructure to support it?
|
|
stuart1974
Proper Gas
Posts: 11,532
Member is Online
|
Post by stuart1974 on Dec 29, 2017 23:24:42 GMT
Politician's logic, Topper. If it isn't 'A' then it must be 'B'. Life isn't that black and white and variations are possible. Take the stadium for example, it is perfectly possible to fund and build a new stand then move on in time, just like the phased approach to the Colony. It would be much more self contained and for a more realistic initial outlay, something in the region of £10m I reckon for a 6,000 seat stand with retail outlets for servicing the capital expenditure. Then move on when we can. The question I have for you and others is rather than dismiss options, what is your suggestion? My suggestion is posters on here need to stop living in some kind of make believe word where the ALQ's are going to spend further £m's at Rovers, when all the signs are that post UWE they've stopped all major investments. After a long and stressful day yesterday I was going to leave this, but as the thread has been bumped I'll expand my point a little. I understand your point about the lack of obvious signs, I would however respectfully disagree that what is being proposed by the OP cannot happen, it can given the time, money and effort which none on here really know how much is being devoted and in what timescale. However, that is a side issue as the point of the discussion is to debate the relative merits of a different sized stadium and how plausable it is. By simply stating that people hypothesising what could be feasible is 'living in a make believe world' is unfair.
|
|
|
Post by gasstrictband on Dec 29, 2017 23:34:52 GMT
Hi Staurt1974, I like your posts,
|
|
stuart1974
Proper Gas
Posts: 11,532
Member is Online
|
Post by stuart1974 on Dec 29, 2017 23:38:10 GMT
Politician's logic, Topper. If it isn't 'A' then it must be 'B'. Life isn't that black and white and variations are possible. Take the stadium for example, it is perfectly possible to fund and build a new stand then move on in time, just like the phased approach to the Colony. It would be much more self contained and for a more realistic initial outlay, something in the region of £10m I reckon for a 6,000 seat stand with retail outlets for servicing the capital expenditure. Then move on when we can. The question I have for you and others is rather than dismiss options, what is your suggestion? I don't necessarily agree that in order to dismiss an option, you must have a suggestion. You don't have to be an expert to know something is broken, but you may need to be to be able to fix it. I quite agree, Hugo, it makes for an interesting discussion either way. What I was meaning was that rather than write off ideas we should explore them. The latter encourages debate in a cordial manner and may provide some clarity for others to understand, especially some of the more boring or dry details relating to finance. The former stifles debate and causes animosity amongst posters who would generally agree with each other. Using your analogy, there is nothing wrong in looking at the ways of fixing the problem or in recognising that suggested solutions will not work or indeed not knowing the answer, but by saying that the problem cannot be fixed doesn't help.
|
|
|
Post by adrian301 on Dec 29, 2017 23:44:09 GMT
Has there been one positive statement from the club since August 3rd or even beyond that date to suggest they will be spending anything like £10m any time soon? If they communicated and told the fan base what their vision was perhaps we as supporters would start buying into it. As far as I'm concerned they have until the end of January - it will be a sad day for me if I feel then that I won't be renewing my season ticket for next season. Must be honest, I'm starting to wonder if I will either. If the owners can't be arsed, why should I be? That kind of sums it up for me. The optimism at the end of last season and the rush for season tickets in increasing numbers based on an expectation that this surge could be maintained with the owners harnessing this energy with news about stadium plans and new money for players just never happened. After the money had been sucked in, we are told we have bottom half playing budget at best, and as for a decent stadium errr..... One thing that always disappoints me, is the uncovered away fans terracing. Can we not find it within ourselves to offer fans who may travelled hundreds of miles some protection from the elements?
|
|
stuart1974
Proper Gas
Posts: 11,532
Member is Online
|
Post by stuart1974 on Dec 29, 2017 23:49:33 GMT
Hi Staurt1974, I like your posts, Thanks, I don't often have the time to post much and try to write from experience and be civil when I do. Sometimes I do need to sign off and walk away though🙈
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Dec 30, 2017 8:41:10 GMT
Must be honest, I'm starting to wonder if I will either. If the owners can't be arsed, why should I be? Perhaps because you are supposed to be a gashead which they most certainly are not. Yeah, but aren't you tired of us being so sh**? Almost everything about us is crap and after 25 odd years it's starting to wear thin. Surely there cannot be a single one of us who is happy with how the club is??
|
|
|
Post by Congas on Dec 30, 2017 9:01:52 GMT
Looking back and ignoring the criteria of never having played in the top flight, I'd say we're more in the Swansea, Reading and Huddersfield mould in terms of potential. A 15,000 capacity would do for surviving in the Championship but would be lacking if we were to go beyond that. The Uwe plan was about right imo; start with around 20,000 with the option to increase to 30,000 should needs arise. City getting to the Premiership would be a massive boost for Bristol, and a bandwagon that we should be looking to get aboard rather than throwing in the towel. Imagine derby days in the Prem beamed around the globe...
|
|