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Post by Officer Barbrady on May 12, 2019 17:28:58 GMT
Perhaps you misunderstood me. At what point did everyone decide that they voted leave with a no deal scenario after all? Nigel was banging in about a Norway deal. Boris was on about access to the single market. Nobody mentioned a no deal pre-referendum but now everyone is acting as if that's what they voted for all along. Widespread clairvoyance? I voted to leave full stop. If that was with no deal fine. If that was with a favourable deal fine. If that was with a sh** deal not fine - revert to no deal. The over riding outcome of the referendum is that the majority do not like being part of the EU and what it has become and therefore wanted to leave. I can't imagine any would have there fundamental desire to leave changed purely on the grounds of our politicians completely cocking up the terms of our exit. If that were to happen there would be no point in ever having such a referendum ever again as if MP's don't agree with the voting public they can just screw things up to ensure the will of the people is not carried through. Hmmm. So despite no one mentioning a no deal scenario at the time you saw it as a realistic option and a good enough one to vote for. Ok. But how did you arrive at the conclusion that no deal was worth voting for when there was zero insight available at the time? Maybe people want no deal now (cant understand why on earth that would be other than sheer bloody mindedness but ok) but honestly I dont believe that's what that majority voted for then.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 17:52:37 GMT
I voted to leave full stop. If that was with no deal fine. If that was with a favourable deal fine. If that was with a sh** deal not fine - revert to no deal. The over riding outcome of the referendum is that the majority do not like being part of the EU and what it has become and therefore wanted to leave. I can't imagine any would have there fundamental desire to leave changed purely on the grounds of our politicians completely cocking up the terms of our exit. If that were to happen there would be no point in ever having such a referendum ever again as if MP's don't agree with the voting public they can just screw things up to ensure the will of the people is not carried through. Hmmm. So despite no one mentioning a no deal scenario at the time you saw it as a realistic option and a good enough one to vote for. Ok. But how did you arrive at the conclusion that no deal was worth voting for when there was zero insight available at the time? Maybe people want no deal now (cant understand why on earth that would be other than sheer bloody mindedness but ok) but honestly I dont believe that's what that majority voted for then. I've said on here many times that I don't like what the EU has become and want out - regardless of whatever punishment beating the EU want to try and punish us with for daring to leave their club. Whatever the short term difficulties of no deal it is a price worth paying and we will flourish in the longer term. I personally was ready for a no deal - the reason being I didn't expect the EU to just let us cherry any bits we felt suited us if that was what everyone thinks would have constituted 'a deal'.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on May 12, 2019 17:55:42 GMT
Hmmm. So despite no one mentioning a no deal scenario at the time you saw it as a realistic option and a good enough one to vote for. Ok. But how did you arrive at the conclusion that no deal was worth voting for when there was zero insight available at the time? Maybe people want no deal now (cant understand why on earth that would be other than sheer bloody mindedness but ok) but honestly I dont believe that's what that majority voted for then. I've said on here many times that I don't like what the EU has become and want out - regardless of whatever punishment beating the EU want to try and punish us with for daring to leave their club. Whatever the short term difficulties of no deal it is a price worth paying and we will flourish in the longer term. I personally was ready for a no deal - the reason being I didn't expect the EU to just let us cherry any bits we felt suited us if that was what everyone thinks would have constituted 'a deal'. Whatever the short term difficulties it is a price worth paying. Is is safe to say then that you didnt really have any knowledge of the effect of no deal when you voted for it? Youd have paid any price.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 18:03:57 GMT
I've said on here many times that I don't like what the EU has become and want out - regardless of whatever punishment beating the EU want to try and punish us with for daring to leave their club. Whatever the short term difficulties of no deal it is a price worth paying and we will flourish in the longer term. I personally was ready for a no deal - the reason being I didn't expect the EU to just let us cherry any bits we felt suited us if that was what everyone thinks would have constituted 'a deal'. Whatever the short term difficulties it is a price worth paying. Is is safe to say then that you didnt really have any knowledge of the effect of no deal when you voted for it? Youd have paid any price. Our economic "experts" can't predict anything accurately. I would have expected some economic downturn but who would known for certain that would indeed be the case and how long lived that would be? I suspect it would have been overplayed in the same way we were told to expect Armageddon the day after the referendum result. Are you saying that because we could not predict with 100% accuracy what would happen after leaving we should never vote leave and effectively be tied into the EU forever?
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 18:15:54 GMT
I've said on here many times that I don't like what the EU has become and want out - regardless of whatever punishment beating the EU want to try and punish us with for daring to leave their club. Whatever the short term difficulties of no deal it is a price worth paying and we will flourish in the longer term. I personally was ready for a no deal - the reason being I didn't expect the EU to just let us cherry any bits we felt suited us if that was what everyone thinks would have constituted 'a deal'. Whatever the short term difficulties it is a price worth paying. Is is safe to say then that you didnt really have any knowledge of the effect of no deal when you voted for it? Youd have paid any price. He has said many times Officer. He doesn't understand WTO rules (his admission) but wants to leave with no deal although he has no idea how that would work. Over the last couple of years I personally have come to believe that us Remainers were arrogant and did not argue in the detail of the benefits of trade treaties, of a judicial system that enforces the rules of those treaties. However when faced with people, like Eric, who freely admit they do not know, cannot articulate the opportunities of leaving beyond "populist soundbites" (your excellent phrase) what are we to do. The barbarians are at the gate.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 18:22:57 GMT
It's Article 50. It quite clearly states that after two years a country must leave the EU either B/ with an Agreement, or B/ without an Agreement. Article 50 is part of the Lisbon Treaty. 498 MP's in the HoC voted to invoke Article 50. It is still the only option in the HoC regarding Brexit that has received an overwhelming vote. After being defeated three times, it is obvious May's Agreement has been rejected. That is Option A. So we are left with Option B. We voted to Leave the EU. To do that you MUST invoke Article 50. It's pretty simple really. Perhaps you misunderstood me. At what point did everyone decide that they voted leave with a no deal scenario after all? Nigel was banging in about a Norway deal. Boris was on about access to the single market. Nobody mentioned a no deal pre-referendum but now everyone is acting as if that's what they voted for all along. Widespread clairvoyance? It should have been relatively easy to leave with a mutual agreement. The fact that May has totally screwed up was not what the voters expected. Nobody really expected that she would feck this up in the way she has. Her WA is not an Agreement, it's a Surrender Treaty. It is not Brexit. I think that is something we can all agree on. So, the only other option is to leave with No Deal, as specific in Article 50, as voted for by 498 MP's.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on May 12, 2019 18:36:57 GMT
Perhaps you misunderstood me. At what point did everyone decide that they voted leave with a no deal scenario after all? Nigel was banging in about a Norway deal. Boris was on about access to the single market. Nobody mentioned a no deal pre-referendum but now everyone is acting as if that's what they voted for all along. Widespread clairvoyance? It should have been relatively easy to leave with a mutual agreement. The fact that May has totally screwed up was not what the voters expected. Nobody really expected that she would feck this up in the way she has. Her WA is not an Agreement, it's a Surrender Treaty. It is not Brexit. I think that is something we can all agree on. So, the only other option is to leave with No Deal, as specific in Article 50, as voted for by 498 MP's. but MPs have voted against no deal repeatedly. More evidence of them all being about as clued up as a bag of spanners for sure but nonetheless, the most recent votes have been against no deal regardless of the default position. I cant help but feel Eric's last post is at odds with yours. Nobody expected this to be so badly done that it would go to no deal I agree but he says he voted for it. I just find that so difficult to believe. Like I said, they may want it now but I wonder if that is primarily because they expected to get a better deal and they cant shift their position. I'm not sure that was realistic.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 18:54:57 GMT
It should have been relatively easy to leave with a mutual agreement. The fact that May has totally screwed up was not what the voters expected. Nobody really expected that she would feck this up in the way she has. Her WA is not an Agreement, it's a Surrender Treaty. It is not Brexit. I think that is something we can all agree on. So, the only other option is to leave with No Deal, as specific in Article 50, as voted for by 498 MP's. but MPs have voted against no deal repeatedly. More evidence of them all being about as clued up as a bag of spanners for sure but nonetheless, the most recent votes have been against no deal regardless of the default position. I cant help but feel Eric's last post is at odds with yours. Nobody expected this to be so badly done that it would go to no deal I agree but he says he voted for it. I just find that so difficult to believe. Like I said, they may want it now but I wonder if that is primarily because they expected to get a better deal and they cant shift their position. I'm not sure that was realistic. I'm the same as Nobby in that I didn't expect this to be such a protracted balls up. The delay, incompetence and sabotage from MP's on all sides has not changed my view from the day a referendum was announced that this this may be a once in a lifetime opportunity to get out of the EU. You may call me a liar if you wish, Leave voters have had to become thick skinned to insults, but I have always been happy to leave, whether it be with a good deal or no deal. Anyone who thought we could just pick and choose the best bits of EU membership (elements of trade being the only one I can think of) and leave with their best wishes must be completely thick.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on May 12, 2019 19:01:54 GMT
but MPs have voted against no deal repeatedly. More evidence of them all being about as clued up as a bag of spanners for sure but nonetheless, the most recent votes have been against no deal regardless of the default position. I cant help but feel Eric's last post is at odds with yours. Nobody expected this to be so badly done that it would go to no deal I agree but he says he voted for it. I just find that so difficult to believe. Like I said, they may want it now but I wonder if that is primarily because they expected to get a better deal and they cant shift their position. I'm not sure that was realistic. I'm the same as Nobby in that I didn't expect this to be such a protracted balls up. The delay, incompetence and sabotage from MP's on all sides has not changed my view from the day a referendum was announced that this this may be a once in a lifetime opportunity to get out of the EU. You may call me a liar if you wish, Leave voters have had to become thick skinned to insults, but I have always been happy to leave, whether it be with a good deal or no deal. Anyone who thought we could just pick and choose the best bits of EU membership (elements of trade being the only one I can think of) and leave with their best wishes must be completely thick. I've not called you a liar. I've called you the exception to the rule.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 20:20:22 GMT
I'm the same as Nobby in that I didn't expect this to be such a protracted balls up. The delay, incompetence and sabotage from MP's on all sides has not changed my view from the day a referendum was announced that this this may be a once in a lifetime opportunity to get out of the EU. You may call me a liar if you wish, Leave voters have had to become thick skinned to insults, but I have always been happy to leave, whether it be with a good deal or no deal. Anyone who thought we could just pick and choose the best bits of EU membership (elements of trade being the only one I can think of) and leave with their best wishes must be completely thick. I've not called you a liar. I've called you the exception to the rule. Nevermind. Easy mistake to make when someone says they don't believe what you've said.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on May 12, 2019 20:22:25 GMT
I've not called you a liar. I've called you the exception to the rule. Nevermind. Easy mistake to make when someone says they don't believe what you've said. I said I find it difficult to believe and I do.
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Post by peterparker on May 13, 2019 7:01:56 GMT
So Farage gets upity on Marr, when Marr asks him what he stands for/what his policies are. Farage flounces and gets shouty and says what does what he said in the past have to do with anything
Claims BBC bias against the Brexit Party whils on the BBC, was on QT 3 days earlier (and has been on over 30 times)
Sad thing is,a lot of his supporters will lap it up. 'Farage fighting back' and some BS rhetoric
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 7:22:38 GMT
So Farage gets torn a new one by Marr, when Marr asks him what he stands for/what his policies are. Farage flounces and gets shouty and says what does what he said in the past have to do with anything Claims BBC bias against the Brexit Party whils on the BBC, was on QT 3 days earlier (and has been on over 30 times) Sad thing is,a lot of his supporters will lap it up. 'Farage fighting back' and some BS rhetoric Looking at the interview, and reading the reviews in the MSM, it looks like Marr was the one who came a cropper. Marr, and the BBC, are making the mistake of trying the play the man and not the ball. The line of questioning wateres people off as the questions were not dealing with the reality of today. What are his/Brexit Party policies? Who cares. This is the EU Elections being fought, not a General Election. Labour has an EU Manifesto that barely mentions Brexit. The Tories don't have an EU Manifesto at all ! and experience has proven that Labour and Tory manifesto's are not worth the paper they are written on anyway!
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 7:28:09 GMT
I stand corrected regarding the Tory Manifesto......
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 8:42:24 GMT
So Farage gets upity on Marr, when Marr asks him what he stands for/what his policies are. Farage flounces and gets shouty and says what does what he said in the past have to do with anything Claims BBC bias against the Brexit Party whils on the BBC, was on QT 3 days earlier (and has been on over 30 times) Sad thing is,a lot of his supporters will lap it up. 'Farage fighting back' and some BS rhetoric It was not about the manifesto, real or imagined. It was about the man. As a leader of a political party his views and previous statements were, correctly, challenged. He got uppity because he was made to look foolish.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on May 13, 2019 11:00:29 GMT
So Farage gets upity on Marr, when Marr asks him what he stands for/what his policies are. Farage flounces and gets shouty and says what does what he said in the past have to do with anything Claims BBC bias against the Brexit Party whils on the BBC, was on QT 3 days earlier (and has been on over 30 times) Sad thing is,a lot of his supporters will lap it up. 'Farage fighting back' and some BS rhetoric It was not about the manifesto, real or imagined. It was about the man. As a leader of a political party his views and previous statements were, correctly, challenged. He got uppity because he was made to look foolish. Realising with a cold panic that the self inflicted gunshot wound to the left foot was now profusely bleeding, the British public decided to call for help. With trembling fingers they pick up the blood spattered receiver and slowly, methodically dial the talking clock.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 11:32:54 GMT
It was not about the manifesto, real or imagined. It was about the man. As a leader of a political party his views and previous statements were, correctly, challenged. He got uppity because he was made to look foolish. Realising with a cold panic that the self inflicted gunshot wound to the left foot was now profusely bleeding, the British public decided to call for help. With trembling fingers they pick up the blood spattered receiver and slowly, methodically dial the talking clock. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Precisely.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on May 13, 2019 11:58:41 GMT
Realising with a cold panic that the self inflicted gunshot wound to the left foot was now profusely bleeding, the British public decided to call for help. With trembling fingers they pick up the blood spattered receiver and slowly, methodically dial the talking clock. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Precisely. Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he did not acquire. Jonathan Swift.
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Post by baggins on May 13, 2019 12:52:59 GMT
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he did not acquire. Jonathan Swift. Will you stop assuming I understand stuff like that. Can't you come out with phrases to do with cheese, or constipation, or cheese constipation? I might stand a chance as to what you're on about?
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 13:28:54 GMT
Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he did not acquire. Jonathan Swift. Will you stop assuming I understand stuff like that. Can't you come out with phrases to do with cheese, or constipation, or cheese constipation? I might stand a chance as to what you're on about? I think they're trying to say that anyone who voted for Leave is thicker than Whale Sperm.
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