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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 18:27:48 GMT
I'm wondering whether the biggest conundrum DC has to solve isn't in defence or in attack, but might be the same one it was last season. How to incorporate Chris Lines and Liam Sercombe into the starting XI.
I believe they have to play. In my opinion, both players offer things that no-one else in the squad does. Lines is the best passer in the club and wonderfully creative; Sercombe has the priceless ability to score lots of goals from midfield. We missed both of them on Saturday. No-one in midfield had the ability or desire to collect the ball from the defenders, who were left to lump it fruitlessly forward instead. Lines gives us this. Sercombe's absence from the centre of the pitch also minimised his effectiveness going forward and to be fair, he contributes nothing defensively anyway. Ideally, Lines and Sercombe would be the first two names on my team sheet, however the problem remains - how to play them both together, in their best positions, so they can affect the game as we know they can?
I think there's a general consensus, maybe shared by DC, that it would be desirable to play two strikers. We can't (in my opinion) do that as a 4-4-2 as arguably Lines and definitely Sercombe lack that defensive mindset, know how and bite, leaving us susceptible to being attacked through the middle. It follows then that to incorporate Lines and Sercombe (which for the reasons noted above I think we have to) we have to have three centre midfielders. This would choosing one of Upson, Sinclair or Clarke to play alongside Lines and Sercombe.
Playing these three as part of a 3-5-2 though leaves no place for Kyle Bennett, as for all his qualities he's no wing back. Rodman would be fine but presumably Tarieq would be the left sided player in this formation. Most of us would probably want Bennett's quality in the team, so 3-5-2 is out as well.
The other option enabling us to give Stefan Payne a partner is the diamond. Bennett (or on occasion Sinclair) at the top, Lines and Sercombe in the middle and one of Upson, Clarke or Sinclair at the base. But that leaves no room for Rodman so again perhaps not ideal.
So, maybe we can't have two up top with Lines and Sercombe in the team. The same conundrum we faced last season.
Switching to a 4-3-3 also provides a problem as whilst the full backs can provide the width, we don't really know who can play in a front three alongside Payne. Tom Nichols struggled in a three last season and I'm far from convinced that Bennett or Rodman are suited to playing with their backs to goal either. As yet, we don't know whether Gavin Reilly or Jakubiak can play in a front three - if they can then maybe that's a way of playing 4-3-3?
If we don't have the players to play 4-3-3 though, and again if we accept my original argument that we have to play Lines and Sercombe and play them in their best positions, we also have to accept that we only have one up front, which is generally frowned upon, particularly at home. That could be as a 4-1-4-1 or a 4-2-3-1.
I have complete faith that the genius that is DC will come up with the right answer. But it's surely not a simple one to solve. Of course, plenty won't share the view that Lines and Sercombe have to play (my apologies for wasting your time if you've read this far!). I've outlined at the top of this post why I think it's essential that they do, but I'm really interested to get other people's perspective...
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Post by kampucheagas on Aug 12, 2018 18:42:00 GMT
Good post. I think DC will swap it around as he always does, but I hope he starts to realise we have the players to make other teams FEAR US and especially at home play our attacking line up
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 18:48:53 GMT
I think you're right about looking to get both Lines and Sercs into the same team. Our squad strength is in midfield and I would consider the 4-5-1 system but get Sercs into the middle rather than Bennett. Although Bennett likes to come inside he is better suited to a wide role than Sercs.
If everyone is fit I'd go Smith in goal, Holmes-Dennis and Partington as full backs with Locks and Broadbent in the middle. Bennett and Rodman out wide with Lines and Upson in the middle with Sercs playing centrally but advanced of the other two and therefore giving support to Payne up front.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 18:51:00 GMT
I think you're right about looking to get both Lines and Sercs into the same team. Our squad strength is in midfield and I would consider the 4-5-1 system but get Sercs into the middle rather than Bennett. Although Bennett likes to come inside he is better suited to a wide role than Sercs. If everyone is fit I'd go Smith in goal, Holmes-Dennis and Partington as full backs with Locks and Broadbent in the middle. Bennett and Rodman out wide with Lines and Upson in the middle with Sercs playing centrally but advanced of the other two and therefore giving support to Payne up front. I pretty much agree, although would play Craig before Broadbent. But that's a whole different debate!!!
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Post by kampucheagas on Aug 12, 2018 18:52:08 GMT
I think you're right about looking to get both Lines and Sercs into the same team. Our squad strength is in midfield and I would consider the 4-5-1 system but get Sercs into the middle rather than Bennett. Although Bennett likes to come inside he is better suited to a wide role than Sercs. If everyone is fit I'd go Smith in goal, Holmes-Dennis and Partington as full backs with Locks and Broadbent in the middle. Bennett and Rodman out wide with Lines and Upson in the middle with Sercs playing centrally but advanced of the other two and therefore giving support to Payne up front. And all that time spent worrying about getting in strikers in the window!
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 12, 2018 19:05:36 GMT
As Sercs ever played at the top of the midfield diamond for Rovers, I've seen Sincs, Nichols and Bennett, even OC yesterday, tried there but never Sercs?
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Post by axegas on Aug 12, 2018 19:45:03 GMT
Might be an idea to play Sercombe as Payne’s strike partner up top? Sercs tends to excel in forward attacking positions and I wonder if playing him in a central attacking role; tasked with supplying Payne might not be such a bad idea. Payne would be less isolated and Sercombe could hardly do worse than Nichols in that position. We’ve got such depth in the midfield that we would hardly miss him playing there.
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Post by socrates on Aug 12, 2018 19:49:40 GMT
Might be an idea to play Sercombe as Payne’s strike partner up top? Sercs tends to excel in forward attacking positions and I wonder if playing him in a central attacking role; tasked with supplying Payne might not be such a bad idea. Payne would be less isolated and Sercombe could hardly do worse than Nichols in that position. We’ve got such depth in the midfield that we would hardly miss him playing there. Not a bad shout that. All sercombes best work is when he’s attacking the box and looking to Play one twos and shoot. All his worst work is defensively where he tends to go missing when we’re being over run.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Aug 12, 2018 19:50:24 GMT
Might be an idea to play Sercombe as Payne’s strike partner up top? Sercs tends to excel in forward attacking positions and I wonder if playing him in a central attacking role; tasked with supplying Payne might not be such a bad idea. Payne would be less isolated and Sercombe could hardly do worse than Nichols in that position. We’ve got such depth in the midfield that we would hardly miss him playing there. Or play him in central midfield where he got 12 goals and 8 assists last season. If we are desperate to fit him and Lines in the same team it would have to be a midfield 3.
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Post by Gas-Ed on Aug 12, 2018 19:54:37 GMT
Might be an idea to play Sercombe as Payne’s strike partner up top? Sercs tends to excel in forward attacking positions and I wonder if playing him in a central attacking role; tasked with supplying Payne might not be such a bad idea. Payne would be less isolated and Sercombe could hardly do worse than Nichols in that position. We’ve got such depth in the midfield that we would hardly miss him playing there. Or play him in central midfield where he got 12 goals and 8 assists last season. If we are desperate to fit him and Lines in the same team it would have to be a midfield 3. Lines, Upson and Sercs as a 3. That’s the only way to get both in the side. Sercs is wasted out wide. I like Lines playing in a deep lying playmaker role. Get him creating from deep.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 20:04:18 GMT
Might be an idea to play Sercombe as Payne’s strike partner up top? Sercs tends to excel in forward attacking positions and I wonder if playing him in a central attacking role; tasked with supplying Payne might not be such a bad idea. Payne would be less isolated and Sercombe could hardly do worse than Nichols in that position. We’ve got such depth in the midfield that we would hardly miss him playing there. Or play him in central midfield where he got 12 goals and 8 assists last season. If we are desperate to fit him and Lines in the same team it would have to be a midfield 3. Agree. Playing up front with back to goal is entirely different to playing in a midfield role. Whilst I don't think assist stats are worth anything, 12 goals from midfield says a lot.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 20:12:07 GMT
I agree with pirate. Play sercombe where he did all the damage last season from centre-midfield. All the other midfield players should be secondary to that requirement.
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Post by bluestone on Aug 12, 2018 20:13:40 GMT
As Sercs ever played at the top of the midfield diamond for Rovers, I've seen Sincs, Nichols and Bennett, even OC yesterday, tried there but never Sercs? Not sure but he would seem to be well suited to play that role. He always seems to perform better in a central position than a wide one doesn't he. I think we actually have quite a bit of flexibility in the squad for a diamond formation, options below. -----------------Slocombe---------------- Lead/Part/JC--Locks---Craig/BB--THD/Kelly ----------Lines/Upson/OC/Sincs----------- Rodman/Mensah---------------Lines/Bennett ---------Sercs/Bennett/Matthews---------- -------Payne------Jakub/Nichols/Reilly---
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Post by axegas on Aug 12, 2018 20:19:09 GMT
Might be an idea to play Sercombe as Payne’s strike partner up top? Sercs tends to excel in forward attacking positions and I wonder if playing him in a central attacking role; tasked with supplying Payne might not be such a bad idea. Payne would be less isolated and Sercombe could hardly do worse than Nichols in that position. We’ve got such depth in the midfield that we would hardly miss him playing there. Or play him in central midfield where he got 12 goals and 8 assists last season. If we are desperate to fit him and Lines in the same team it would have to be a midfield 3. Most of those 12 goals and 8 assists came from advanced areas of the pitch where he likes to time his runs into the box impeccably and finish well. Playing him alongside Payne would allow him to forget his defensive duties and focus on what he does best. For me that has always been the far more sensible place to try Sercombe out rather than on the wing where he struggles.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 20:26:13 GMT
As Sercs ever played at the top of the midfield diamond for Rovers, I've seen Sincs, Nichols and Bennett, even OC yesterday, tried there but never Sercs? Not sure but he would seem to be well suited to play that role. He always seems to perform better in a central position than a wide one doesn't he. I think we actually have quite a bit of flexibility in the squad for a diamond formation, options below. -----------------Slocombe---------------- Lead/Part/JC--Locks---Craig/BB--THD/Kelly ----------Lines/Upson/OC/Sincs----------- Rodman/Mensah---------------Lines/Bennett ---------Sercs/Bennett/Matthews---------- -------Payne------Jakub/Nichols/Reilly--- Could work, but to play two up front DC has a big decision to make in leaving out two of Clarke, Lines, Bennett, Sercombe, Upson and Rodman. And that's before Sincs is fit again. All seven are good players and highlight the depth we have, but it causes a headache too...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 20:36:58 GMT
Or play him in central midfield where he got 12 goals and 8 assists last season. If we are desperate to fit him and Lines in the same team it would have to be a midfield 3. Agree. Playing up front with back to goal is entirely different to playing in a midfield role. Whilst I don't think assist stats are worth anything, 12 goals from midfield says a lot. Totally agree. Sercs couldn't play right up top. He's not great defending, all his best work is just outside the opposition box, arriving late to loose balls, cut backs etc. Playing a midfield five with Upson and Lines in conventional centre mid roles would allow Sercs to play just in front of them but behind Payne. Similar to the role Lampard used to play for Chelsea with Essien and Makalele behind him.
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Post by bluestone on Aug 12, 2018 20:40:24 GMT
Not sure but he would seem to be well suited to play that role. He always seems to perform better in a central position than a wide one doesn't he. I think we actually have quite a bit of flexibility in the squad for a diamond formation, options below. -----------------Slocombe---------------- Lead/Part/JC--Locks---Craig/BB--THD/Kelly ----------Lines/Upson/OC/Sincs----------- Rodman/Mensah---------------Lines/Bennett ---------Sercs/Bennett/Matthews---------- -------Payne------Jakub/Nichols/Reilly--- Could work, but to play two up front DC has a big decision to make in leaving out two of Clarke, Lines, Bennett, Sercombe, Upson and Rodman. And that's before Sincs is fit again. All seven are good players and highlight the depth we have, but it causes a headache too... Agreed, but as we know DC likes to mix things up anyway. I hate to use the word 'rotation' but with the squad size have and in particular the depth we have in midfield is inevitable that this will be necessary. The games will be coming at us thick and fast so he won't be able to keep to the same starting 11 anyway as he'll need to rest players, they will probably all have to spend some time on the bench whether they like it or not.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 20:42:08 GMT
Not sure but he would seem to be well suited to play that role. He always seems to perform better in a central position than a wide one doesn't he. I think we actually have quite a bit of flexibility in the squad for a diamond formation, options below. -----------------Slocombe---------------- Lead/Part/JC--Locks---Craig/BB--THD/Kelly ----------Lines/Upson/OC/Sincs----------- Rodman/Mensah---------------Lines/Bennett ---------Sercs/Bennett/Matthews---------- -------Payne------Jakub/Nichols/Reilly--- Could work, but to play two up front DC has a big decision to make in leaving out two of Clarke, Lines, Bennett, Sercombe, Upson and Rodman. And that's before Sincs is fit again. All seven are good players and highlight the depth we have, but it causes a headache too... If we don't want to play 3/5 at the back with wingbacks as it seems most fans don't - then a conventional 4-4-2 would probably be the easiest way? Rodman and Bennett wide with Upson alongside Lines or Sercombe. That's the first tough decision. The next would be who to partner Payne up top? Would our record signing Nichols get the chance to take that spot or Reilly?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 20:53:08 GMT
Could work, but to play two up front DC has a big decision to make in leaving out two of Clarke, Lines, Bennett, Sercombe, Upson and Rodman. And that's before Sincs is fit again. All seven are good players and highlight the depth we have, but it causes a headache too... If we don't want to play 3/5 at the back with wingbacks as it seems most fans don't - then a conventional 4-4-2 would probably be the easiest way? Rodman and Bennett wide with Upson alongside Lines or Sercombe. That's the first tough decision. The next would be who to partner Payne up top? Would our record signing Nichols get the chance to take that spot or Reilly? This is my point. I just don't see 4-4-2 as an option unless we drop one of Lines or Sercombe, which I'd be very reluctant to do. If we did go down that route though, I'd give Reilly a chance. Nichols did well when he came on yesterday but I've given up all hope of him scoring goals. Would love to be proved wrong.
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Post by hpgas on Aug 12, 2018 21:00:47 GMT
Nice to read a positive constructive thread, Only just recovering from Wael and the Accrington game....
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