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Post by althepirate on Aug 26, 2018 8:37:36 GMT
A question Hugo asked on another thread, from DC's post match interview, and worthy I think of a thread of its own.
That wasn't a performance where I thought the manager was in control, to me it looked like the players were doing what they wanted which if true is immensely worrying. Anybody know anything and have any thoughts about this?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 8:50:11 GMT
Players meetings would be a pretty standard thing in any club I would think.
DC talked about players taking responsibility on the pitch and he's right. I'd be surprised if Tom Lockyer and other senior pros aren't getting the players together and thrashing out a few home truths to be honest.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Aug 26, 2018 8:52:08 GMT
My uninformed feeling merely from what he said is simply that the players decided to get together, independent of management, to try to thrash out among themselves why we had started so crap.
I think it's not uncommon that the players can hold meetings to say stuff like, 'you're not passing to me,' 'you're a bit sh**,' 'you're a lady garden,' without it going any higher.
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Post by Strange Gas on Aug 26, 2018 9:06:45 GMT
I think we should look at what’s on the pitch and ask where was the leadership. No Lockyer, Parts, Lines or Brown and very clear it’s not Craig, Rodman or Upson who are the other senior pros. Quite telling that the armband went to OC over them
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Post by dragonfly on Aug 26, 2018 9:44:06 GMT
I would hope that these players meetings were taking place to achieve an improvement in themselves. A problem would arrive, however, if the meetings were being used to perhaps oust DC. We just do not know and DC has said in the past that he will not stay where he is not wanted. I would prefer that DC and his staff take the lead to sort the problems out.
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Post by Captain Jayho on Aug 26, 2018 9:49:43 GMT
Isn't it common practice for players to have meetings? Normally defensive group, midfield group and forwards if not the full squad all together? It is in most sports. Just my view but I think there's a bit much being read into this. I think DC is just saying that we can do all the talk in the world but what we need to do is then put it into practice on the field of play - and he wasn't seeing that against Southend. Certainly he alluded to the punting of long balls being something that was contrary to what had been discussed prior to the game (just as an example).
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Post by peterhooper57 on Aug 26, 2018 9:50:16 GMT
I think we should look at what’s on the pitch and ask where was the leadership. No Lockyer, Parts, Lines or Brown and very clear it’s not Craig, Rodman or Upson who are the other senior pros. Quite telling that the armband went to OC over them I agree with you, unfortunately, for whatever reason, DC has not brought in any leader, say in the calibre of a Vaughan Jones a real winner who skippered the side to where we want to be; Ollie Clarke ffs he is not a leader, along with Lockyer are both struggling to take care of their own inconsistent form. You cannot captain a side when you are constantly playing **** yourself. At the moment the whole team is not playing well, fact ! |
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Aug 26, 2018 9:57:14 GMT
I think we should look at what’s on the pitch and ask where was the leadership. No Lockyer, Parts, Lines or Brown and very clear it’s not Craig, Rodman or Upson who are the other senior pros. Quite telling that the armband went to OC over them Istm the armband went to OC because in the absence of Locks and Lines, he's the only one left who's proper Gas. |
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Post by dragonfly on Aug 26, 2018 10:06:37 GMT
Isn't it common practice for players to have meetings? Normally defensive group, midfield group and forwards if not the full squad all together? It is in most sports. Just my view but I think there's a bit much being read into this. I think DC is just saying that we can do all the talk in the world but what we need to do is then put it into practice on the field of play - and he wasn't seeing that against Southend. Certainly he alluded to the punting of long balls being something that was contrary to what had been discussed prior to the game (just as an example). What struck me the moment I heard DC refer to these meetings was that I have never heard DC make such a reference in the past and perhaps he was slightly annoyed by them. The meetings (the content of which is not not) did not have the desired effect on the field, so are the players and DC at odds with each other? |
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Post by dragonfly on Aug 26, 2018 10:09:30 GMT
Isn't it common practice for players to have meetings? Normally defensive group, midfield group and forwards if not the full squad all together? It is in most sports. Just my view but I think there's a bit much being read into this. I think DC is just saying that we can do all the talk in the world but what we need to do is then put it into practice on the field of play - and he wasn't seeing that against Southend. Certainly he alluded to the punting of long balls being something that was contrary to what had been discussed prior to the game (just as an example). What struck me the moment I heard DC refer to these meetings was that I have never heard DC make such a reference in the past and perhaps he was slightly annoyed by them. The meetings (the content of which is not not) did not have the desired effect on the field, so are the players and DC at odds with each other? correction (the contents of which is not known) |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 10:26:53 GMT
I think we should look at what’s on the pitch and ask where was the leadership. No Lockyer, Parts, Lines or Brown and very clear it’s not Craig, Rodman or Upson who are the other senior pros. Quite telling that the armband went to OC over them I think you make a good point, DC recognized he needed leadership on the pitch and Craig, Rodman and Upson as senior professional were recruited and expected to provide that leadership and they are not doing what they are paid to do. It has that horrible feel of the last year of Trollope. |
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Post by peterparker on Aug 26, 2018 10:41:33 GMT
Isn't it common practice for players to have meetings? Normally defensive group, midfield group and forwards if not the full squad all together? It is in most sports. Just my view but I think there's a bit much being read into this. I think DC is just saying that we can do all the talk in the world but what we need to do is then put it into practice on the field of play - and he wasn't seeing that against Southend. Certainly he alluded to the punting of long balls being something that was contrary to what had been discussed prior to the game (just as an example). What struck me the moment I heard DC refer to these meetings was that I have never heard DC make such a reference in the past and perhaps he was slightly annoyed by them. The meetings (the content of which is not not) did not have the desired effect on the field, so are the players and DC at odds with each other? I think it was a, I dont care what they do to put it right, but put it right they must |
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Post by lastminutewinner on Aug 26, 2018 12:17:07 GMT
I think we should look at what’s on the pitch and ask where was the leadership. No Lockyer, Parts, Lines or Brown and very clear it’s not Craig, Rodman or Upson who are the other senior pros. Quite telling that the armband went to OC over them I think you make a good point, DC recognized he needed leadership on the pitch and Craig, Rodman and Upson as senior professional were recruited and expected to provide that leadership and they are not doing what they are paid to do. It has that horrible feel of the last year of Trollope. *shudder* |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 12:25:45 GMT
I think we should look at what’s on the pitch and ask where was the leadership. No Lockyer, Parts, Lines or Brown and very clear it’s not Craig, Rodman or Upson who are the other senior pros. Quite telling that the armband went to OC over them I think you make a good point, DC recognized he needed leadership on the pitch and Craig, Rodman and Upson as senior professional were recruited and expected to provide that leadership and they are not doing what they are paid to do. It has that horrible feel of the last year of Trollope. To be fair, whether you rate him or not, Tony Craig is definitely a leader. Read Michael Calvin's book when he had full access to the Millwall changing room for a season under Kenny Jackett. You'll see then that he is a natural leader. |
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Post by baggins on Aug 26, 2018 12:39:19 GMT
I think you make a good point, DC recognized he needed leadership on the pitch and Craig, Rodman and Upson as senior professional were recruited and expected to provide that leadership and they are not doing what they are paid to do. It has that horrible feel of the last year of Trollope. To be fair, whether you rate him or not, Tony Craig is definitely a leader. Read Michael Calvin's book when he had full access to the Millwall changing room for a season under Kenny Jackett. You'll see then that he is a natural leader. He may be a natural leader but seeing his performances, he's nothing else. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 13:32:31 GMT
To be fair, whether you rate him or not, Tony Craig is definitely a leader. Read Michael Calvin's book when he had full access to the Millwall changing room for a season under Kenny Jackett. You'll see then that he is a natural leader. He may be a natural leader but seeing his performances, he's nothing else. Fair enough. I disagree though and think he is still a very good centre half. Whether him and Lockyer are an effective enough partnership is a different question, and at times I wish we could play one or the other alongside a Shaun Taylor type. Mind you, I agree he's definitely not a left back any more. |
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Post by baggins on Aug 26, 2018 13:43:32 GMT
He may be a natural leader but seeing his performances, he's nothing else. Fair enough. I disagree though and think he is still a very good centre half. Whether him and Lockyer are an effective enough partnership is a different question, and at times I wish we could play one or the other alongside a Shaun Taylor type. Mind you, I agree he's definitely not a left back any more. It's all about opinions. Personally, don't think Craig is up to it. |
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Post by rosssgb on Aug 26, 2018 16:22:27 GMT
Fair enough. I disagree though and think he is still a very good centre half. Whether him and Lockyer are an effective enough partnership is a different question, and at times I wish we could play one or the other alongside a Shaun Taylor type. Mind you, I agree he's definitely not a left back any more. It's all about opinions. Personally, don't think Craig is up to it. I’m halfway haha He’s definitely a leader and reads the game well, but imo his legs have gone and he isn’t upto it. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 17:08:47 GMT
I think you make a good point, DC recognized he needed leadership on the pitch and Craig, Rodman and Upson as senior professional were recruited and expected to provide that leadership and they are not doing what they are paid to do. It has that horrible feel of the last year of Trollope. To be fair, whether you rate him or not, Tony Craig is definitely a leader. Read Michael Calvin's book when he had full access to the Millwall changing room for a season under Kenny Jackett. You'll see then that he is a natural leader. Possibly true but in all honesty I've not seen too much evidence on the pitch but it's all about opinions and if his legs have gone then it's hard to lead by example on the pitch. I did think Craig would be made player coach this year but I guess DC appointing Graham Coughlan ruled that out. |
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