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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2018 12:10:21 GMT
Some interesting figures here over the last 5 years.
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Post by axegas on Oct 10, 2018 12:19:09 GMT
Wages as a percentage of Income being 83% isn't healthy for any business. The highest paid director being on £72k stands out too.
What worries me is that if match day revenue decreases as attendances drop due to us being in the lower half of the table, we could be in real trouble.
A cup run or a dramatic rise up the table this season could be the only thing that stops us going in to even more debt. No pressure Darrell!
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Post by faggotygas on Oct 10, 2018 12:26:08 GMT
Wages as a percentage of Income being 83% isn't healthy for any business. The highest paid director being on £72k stands out too. What worries me is that if match day revenue decreases as attendances drop due to us being in the lower half of the table, we could be in real trouble. A cup run or a dramatic rise up the table this season could be the only thing that stops us going in to even more debt. No pressure Darrell! I don't think you can generalise like that about wage percentages. For a football club, you would expect the major outgoing to be wages, as the employees are it's trade, like a consultancy. It's not like it has to buy a load of materials that it uses to produce other things and then sell. Tickets themselves are very cheap to produce. |
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Post by tommym9 on Oct 10, 2018 12:31:53 GMT
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Post by EastVanGas on Oct 10, 2018 12:32:39 GMT
Wages as a percentage of Income being 83% isn't healthy for any business. The highest paid director being on £72k stands out too. What worries me is that if match day revenue decreases as attendances drop due to us being in the lower half of the table, we could be in real trouble. A cup run or a dramatic rise up the table this season could be the only thing that stops us going in to even more debt. No pressure Darrell! Assuming the director on £72k is Hamer? |
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Post by Gassy on Oct 10, 2018 12:36:33 GMT
Only 9k in the kitty?
Jesus.
Curious to know how our wage bill went right up to 5m yet it seems less & less is available?
Also the non-reoccurring income?
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Post by gasheadbou on Oct 10, 2018 12:37:05 GMT
Wages as a percentage of Income being 83% isn't healthy for any business. The highest paid director being on £72k stands out too. What worries me is that if match day revenue decreases as attendances drop due to us being in the lower half of the table, we could be in real trouble. A cup run or a dramatic rise up the table this season could be the only thing that stops us going in to even more debt. No pressure Darrell! Assuming the director on £72k is Hamer? No wonder he has to do the radio, he needs some extra pocket money!  |
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Post by axegas on Oct 10, 2018 12:42:14 GMT
Wages as a percentage of Income being 83% isn't healthy for any business. The highest paid director being on £72k stands out too. What worries me is that if match day revenue decreases as attendances drop due to us being in the lower half of the table, we could be in real trouble. A cup run or a dramatic rise up the table this season could be the only thing that stops us going in to even more debt. No pressure Darrell! I don't think you can generalise like that about wage percentages. For a football club, you would expect the major outgoing to be wages, as the employees are it's trade, like a consultancy. It's not like it has to buy a load of materials that it uses to produce other things and then sell. Tickets themselves are very cheap to produce. It's still a bit high for me considering it's based upon a revenue where crowds were in excess of 9000, we had prize money from winning league one and a cup run culminating in a tie against Chelsea. You make a fair point about wages but I just worry that if you factor in policing and stewarding costs, stadium maintenance costs and training ground rent to it, we are getting dangerously close to having uncontrollable debts especially if revenue decreases.
Most football clubs make a loss I accept that but we need to make sure that costs don't spiral out of control. A significant portion of the Harrison money going to covering the costs will be ok in the short term but in the long term we either need external investment, increased turnover or if worst comes to worst slash the wage bill.
I thought the Al Qadi's wanted to build a "Sustainable future for the club" after all. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2018 12:46:36 GMT
The non recurring cost I presume was the write down of the UWE.
Otherwise I was quite encouraged.
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 10, 2018 13:12:15 GMT
The non recurring cost I presume was the write down of the UWE. Otherwise I was quite encouraged. Encouraged? Debts in 2013 & 2014 were "only" around £4m since then they've increased to over £9m, probably £11m+ when this year's accounts to last April are released. As far as Axegas worrying about our wages bill given we're bottom 4 as it stands the last thing we need to do his cut playing budget. Although that figure does suggest DC's being backed to the maximum, assuming the jump form £3m to £5m relates to the playing, rather than than non playing, wages as it seems a big increase bearing in mind it was basically the same squad of players. |
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Post by faggotygas on Oct 10, 2018 13:31:28 GMT
The non recurring cost I presume was the write down of the UWE. Otherwise I was quite encouraged. Encouraged? Debts in 2013 & 2014 were "only" around £4m since then they've increased to over £9m, probably £11m+ when this year's accounts to last April are released. As far as Axegas worrying about our wages bill given we're bottom 4 as it stands the last thing we need to do his cut playing budget. Although that figure does suggest DC's being backed to the maximum, assuming the jump form £3m to £5m relates to the playing, rather than than non playing, wages as it seems a big increase bearing in mind it was basically the same squad of players. But those outgoings actually accrued during the previous regime. They were already spent, just not reflected in the accounts til now.
They are gone now, so if our income and outgoings remain roughly the same as last year but without the UWE write-offs, then with transfer income from the 3 sales the club's losses may be fairly minimal.
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Post by faggotygas on Oct 10, 2018 13:32:32 GMT
I don't think you can generalise like that about wage percentages. For a football club, you would expect the major outgoing to be wages, as the employees are it's trade, like a consultancy. It's not like it has to buy a load of materials that it uses to produce other things and then sell. Tickets themselves are very cheap to produce. It's still a bit high for me considering it's based upon a revenue where crowds were in excess of 9000, we had prize money from winning league one and a cup run culminating in a tie against Chelsea. You make a fair point about wages but I just worry that if you factor in policing and stewarding costs, stadium maintenance costs and training ground rent to it, we are getting dangerously close to having uncontrollable debts especially if revenue decreases.
Most football clubs make a loss I accept that but we need to make sure that costs don't spiral out of control. A significant portion of the Harrison money going to covering the costs will be ok in the short term but in the long term we either need external investment, increased turnover or if worst comes to worst slash the wage bill.
I thought the Al Qadi's wanted to build a "Sustainable future for the club" after all.Unfortuantely the only way we've improved that ratio in recent years is through relegation |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2018 13:39:07 GMT
Wages as a percentage of Income being 83% isn't healthy for any business. The highest paid director being on £72k stands out too. What worries me is that if match day revenue decreases as attendances drop due to us being in the lower half of the table, we could be in real trouble. A cup run or a dramatic rise up the table this season could be the only thing that stops us going in to even more debt. No pressure Darrell! Assuming the director on £72k is Hamer? Scandalous, I doubt he has any more responsobility in his day to day duties than the rest of us do and yet takes home as much as that. Nice work if you can get it... |
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Post by axegas on Oct 10, 2018 13:46:39 GMT
The non recurring cost I presume was the write down of the UWE. Otherwise I was quite encouraged. Encouraged? Debts in 2013 & 2014 were "only" around £4m since then they've increased to over £9m, probably £11m+ when this year's accounts to last April are released. As far as Axegas worrying about our wages bill given we're bottom 4 as it stands the last thing we need to do his cut playing budget. Although that figure does suggest DC's being backed to the maximum, assuming the jump form £3m to £5m relates to the playing, rather than than non playing, wages as it seems a big increase bearing in mind it was basically the same squad of players. I wasn't advocating cutting the wage bill Topper. Given our situation at the moment and the little backing DC gets already it would be an awful thing to do, it's only there as a final resort if financial ruin was the only other choice. We've just got to hope that increased ticketing prices, sponsorship and revenue from the new bars will keep Turnover at what it is present and the shortfall will be plugged through player sales and us not having to pay the write down off UWE as Oldie says. I normally try to be positive in my posts but the off the field goings on are hardly ideal at the moment and it is imperative that we become more sustainable as a club. The light at the end of the tunnel would be if plans for new infrastructure move considerably forward, outside investment is secured or if the owners were to sell the club to a party willing to invest to move us into the 21st century but all of that remains to be seen. |
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Post by tomylil on Oct 10, 2018 14:27:54 GMT
Do those numbers mean we spent £5m on wages across the club in 2016 ?
Also is there reference to the charge on the Mem and what was that £2.2M ?
I confess to having a blindspot on P&L accounts even though I touched on it during my studies years ago and leave that to those who earn a living from interpreting such gobbledegook.
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Post by Jomo on Oct 10, 2018 14:31:37 GMT
Wages as a percentage of Income being 83% isn't healthy for any business. The highest paid director being on £72k stands out too. What worries me is that if match day revenue decreases as attendances drop due to us being in the lower half of the table, we could be in real trouble. A cup run or a dramatic rise up the table this season could be the only thing that stops us going in to even more debt. No pressure Darrell! Assuming the director on £72k is Hamer? May be a stupid question, but is Hamer even a director? I thought he was a non-shareholding Chairman? I.e. just an employee of the club? I may be completely wrong on that. |
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Post by splitter on Oct 10, 2018 14:54:18 GMT
EBITDA looks to be healthier than in previous years. Net borrowing is slightly down, or at least equivalent. 2017 shows a large non-recurring cost which we are to believe is write down on UWE costs. Wages over income looks about level.
This doesn't paint as bad a picture as some narratives that I have seen levelled at the current owners.
While Net debt has risen dramatically in 2017, take out the large one-off write down and it doesn't look so bad. Without the write-down, net debt has still risen, but at a slower rate than the last three years of the previous owners. The 2018 accounts should show a truer picture.
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Post by Gassy on Oct 10, 2018 14:56:59 GMT
Do those numbers mean we spent £5m on wages across the club in 2016 ? Also is there reference to the charge on the Mem and what was that £2.2M ? I confess to having a blindspot on P&L accounts even though I touched on it during my studies years ago and leave that to those who earn a living from interpreting such gobbledegook. Blimey, not bragging again are we?  Only joking  In 2016 we spent £3,602,000 on wages. In 2017, it wen't up to £5m. Im also confused on the non-recurring income, what is that exactly? Google tells me "Such income includes gain on sale of assets, insurance settlement, one-time sale, etc. Also called extraordinary income." |
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Post by tomylil on Oct 10, 2018 15:07:36 GMT
Do those numbers mean we spent £5m on wages across the club in 2016 ? Also is there reference to the charge on the Mem and what was that £2.2M ? I confess to having a blindspot on P&L accounts even though I touched on it during my studies years ago and leave that to those who earn a living from interpreting such gobbledegook. Blimey, not bragging again are we? Only joking In 2016 we spent £3,602,000 on wages. In 2017, it wen't up to £5m. Im also confused on the non-recurring income, what is that exactly? Google tells me "Such income includes gain on sale of assets, insurance settlement, one-time sale, etc. Also called extraordinary income." Years ago = bloody old mate I also thought that about the £2.2m but a write off doesn't seem to sit with what you googled does it ? I'm also wondering how as a club we spend £5m on wages. Not saying it isn't all justified just can't rationalise it because I have no idea how many full time employees the club has. If 80% went to the players that would be a pretty high average wage wouldn't it? |
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Post by Gassy on Oct 10, 2018 15:26:07 GMT
Blimey, not bragging again are we? Only joking In 2016 we spent £3,602,000 on wages. In 2017, it wen't up to £5m. Im also confused on the non-recurring income, what is that exactly? Google tells me "Such income includes gain on sale of assets, insurance settlement, one-time sale, etc. Also called extraordinary income." Years ago = bloody old mate I also thought that about the £2.2m but a write off doesn't seem to sit with what you googled does it ? I'm also wondering how as a club we spend £5m on wages. Not saying it isn't all justified just can't rationalise it because I have no idea how many full time employees the club has. If 80% went to the players that would be a pretty high average wage wouldn't it? Yep - I know we expanded our back room staff, but by £1.4m?! How much is this defensive coach costing us?  This £2.2m of writing off UWE as well is something I can't get behind. Telling UWE we're pulling out cost us £2.2m? I thought all the UWE write-offs were under the old board and mostly spent on legal battles with Sainsburys? |
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