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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2019 14:20:51 GMT
Crossed wires here ? My comments are in the context of the club having done the deal on the table with UWE back then. Even after the loan was paid off we would surely have had £10m at least to put into the pot, and that amount of collateral enables you to borrow more. I am sure that Higgs and co had plans in place to move to Bath, Cheltenham or Newport for 2/3 seasons whilst it was all happening, just like when the Mem was to have been redeveloped. Probably crossed wires 😁 Having said that, didn't UWE want us debt free before moving in or is that a Gaschat myth? Was it said twice?
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Post by peterparker on Jun 20, 2019 14:31:23 GMT
Crossed wires here ? My comments are in the context of the club having done the deal on the table with UWE back then. Even after the loan was paid off we would surely have had £10m at least to put into the pot, and that amount of collateral enables you to borrow more. I am sure that Higgs and co had plans in place to move to Bath, Cheltenham or Newport for 2/3 seasons whilst it was all happening, just like when the Mem was to have been redeveloped. Probably crossed wires 😁 Having said that, didn't UWE want us debt free before moving in or is that a Gaschat myth? That was part of the original plan yes, which subtley changed to their will be no debt attached to UWE Stadium
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 20, 2019 15:17:40 GMT
Probably crossed wires 😁 Having said that, didn't UWE want us debt free before moving in or is that a Gaschat myth? That was part of the original plan yes, which subtley changed to their will be no debt attached to UWE Stadium Thanks, presumably though with build costs around £30m less the Mem value (£12m?) after the loan repayment (£3m?) and grants (£5m?) we would still be around £15m short. Plus the shortfall would be higher initially before the UWE was built or reduced income if sold straight away with higher rents if we groundshared for two seasons.
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Post by daniel300380 on Jun 20, 2019 15:57:07 GMT
That debt was to other people though. This debt is to the owners anyway. Is there a real difference? If someone lends us £20m, we owe them £20m plus interest. The Al-Qadis extend our credit to £20m, and we owe them £20m plus interest. Of course there is a difference. They own the club. It's just how a lot of football clubs do it. If it was a loan from Wonga and we had to repay it now, we would be in big trouble. They probably won't ever get the loan back. We are only in trouble if they say they have had enough and want it re paid. Yet loads want them out now.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jun 20, 2019 17:37:10 GMT
That was part of the original plan yes, which subtley changed to their will be no debt attached to UWE Stadium Thanks, presumably though with build costs around £30m less the Mem value (£12m?) after the loan repayment (£3m?) and grants (£5m?) we would still be around £15m short. Plus the shortfall would be higher initially before the UWE was built or reduced income if sold straight away with higher rents if we groundshared for two seasons. The civil service ground apparently sold recently for £25m, the Mem being closer to Glos Rd must have a similar value, so £12m looks low, make it £22m, which Waitrose were rumoured to be prepared to pay before being trumped by Shamesbury's and there's hardly anything in it. Problem now is if we look for an alternative site how do we fund the land purchase and also the stadium cost build as we're £15m/£20m short again, which I assume is the ALQ's predicament.
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 20, 2019 17:57:17 GMT
Thanks, presumably though with build costs around £30m less the Mem value (£12m?) after the loan repayment (£3m?) and grants (£5m?) we would still be around £15m short. Plus the shortfall would be higher initially before the UWE was built or reduced income if sold straight away with higher rents if we groundshared for two seasons. The civil service ground apparently sold recently for £25m, the Mem being closer to Glos Rd must have a similar value, so £12m looks low, make it £22m, which Waitrose were rumoured to be prepared to pay before being trumped by Shamesbury's and there's hardly anything in it. Problem now is if we look for an alternative site how do we fund the land purchase and also the stadium cost build as we're £15m/£20m short again, which I assume is the ALQ's predicament. The cynic in me thought at the time they should have gone with Waitrose, would never had caused the problems with TRASH.
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Post by burnthewitch on Jun 20, 2019 20:58:14 GMT
My default position was to support them - but that lapsed after UWE collapse v1 + 6 months. In the absence of any infrastructure improvements over the last 3 years 4 months, I am cynical. I don't think they are 'bad' owners in a Becchetti / Oysten / SISU type stylee. But they haven't 'done' anything to move the Club forward. Debt is accumulating at an alarming rate. The lack of communication from the Board is sub-optimal, and to be fair they acknowledge that. But it doesn't improve. My cynicism (and those of others) goes away when the training facility or new stadium is built. Barring that, the production of a believable medium term strategy for the Club would be 'nice'. I don't necessarily disagree with anything you say here. It should be fairly obvious to anyone that communication has been poor and I understand how trust has been lost. I've said before that you and I are probably in almost total agreement with the state of play as it stands currently. We need direction and leadership, be that from WAQ or from someone who is able to back up and prove the "reality" that things are bad. Both of us recognize this is missing. We are agreed. Happy days! I would love the fan-base to be 100% united. I apologise if I come across as negative sometimes. I just want the best for my Football Club and I really care. If Gasheads stop caring, then there is no Football Club.
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Post by mftc on Jun 21, 2019 9:02:50 GMT
What purpose has the civil service been sold for? If it is for housing, this could see an increase in revenue for Rovers, ie even more demand for car parking and food and drink at the stadium.
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Post by burnthewitch on Jun 21, 2019 10:04:17 GMT
Thanks, presumably though with build costs around £30m less the Mem value (£12m?) after the loan repayment (£3m?) and grants (£5m?) we would still be around £15m short. Plus the shortfall would be higher initially before the UWE was built or reduced income if sold straight away with higher rents if we groundshared for two seasons. The civil service ground apparently sold recently for £25m, the Mem being closer to Glos Rd must have a similar value, so £12m looks low, make it £22m, which Waitrose were rumoured to be prepared to pay before being trumped by Shamesbury's and there's hardly anything in it. Problem now is if we look for an alternative site how do we fund the land purchase and also the stadium cost build as we're £15m/£20m short again, which I assume is the ALQ's predicament. The latest set of accounts have the Memorial Stadium valued at £11.1mil. This is a very conservative valuation and Holmes (I think) put the true value at around £20mil. The credit facility has been increased to £17.5mil. I have a sneaky suspicion that next year the Memorial Stadium valuation will rise to accommodate this. We'll see. With regard to being "£15m-£20mil" short... that might well be conservative as well. (Even if we had won the case against Sainsbury's, some people suggest that numbers for UWE still didn't really add up. So it's a problem that faced Mr Higgs, and now faces Mr Al-Qadi).
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Post by curlywurly on Jun 21, 2019 10:58:11 GMT
The civil service ground apparently sold recently for £25m, the Mem being closer to Glos Rd must have a similar value, so £12m looks low, make it £22m, which Waitrose were rumoured to be prepared to pay before being trumped by Shamesbury's and there's hardly anything in it. Problem now is if we look for an alternative site how do we fund the land purchase and also the stadium cost build as we're £15m/£20m short again, which I assume is the ALQ's predicament. The latest set of accounts have the Memorial Stadium valued at £11.1mil. This is a very conservative valuation and Holmes (I think) put the true value at around £20mil. The credit facility has been increased to £17.5mil. I have a sneaky suspicion that next year the Memorial Stadium valuation will rise to accommodate this. We'll see. With regard to being "£15m-£20mil" short... that might well be conservative as well. (Even if we had won the case against Sainsbury's, some people suggest that numbers for UWE still didn't really add up. So it's a problem that faced Mr Higgs, and now faces Mr Al-Qadi). Of course, that depends on the size, type, capacity of the stadium to be built. As you say, many suggested at the time that the original budget figures for the UWE build were on the low side, indeed, there was the whole discussion on whether one side might not be built at all due to increasing construction costs.
As an extreme example, Wembley cost £798million (capacity 89,900), whereas the Millenium Stadium cost £121 million (capacity 74,000) - OK costs should be adjusted to the same time, but you get the point.
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Post by aghast on Jun 21, 2019 12:00:53 GMT
The latest set of accounts have the Memorial Stadium valued at £11.1mil. This is a very conservative valuation and Holmes (I think) put the true value at around £20mil. The credit facility has been increased to £17.5mil. I have a sneaky suspicion that next year the Memorial Stadium valuation will rise to accommodate this. We'll see. With regard to being "£15m-£20mil" short... that might well be conservative as well. (Even if we had won the case against Sainsbury's, some people suggest that numbers for UWE still didn't really add up. So it's a problem that faced Mr Higgs, and now faces Mr Al-Qadi). Of course, that depends on the size, type, capacity of the stadium to be built. As you say, many suggested at the time that the original budget figures for the UWE build were on the low side, indeed, there was the whole discussion on whether one side might not be built at all due to increasing construction costs.
As an extreme example, Wembley cost £798million (capacity 89,900), whereas the Millenium Stadium cost £121 million (capacity 74,000) - OK costs should be adjusted to the same time, but you get the point.
I seem to recall that the quoted costs for the UWE were to cover a basic build, with stands, seats, changing rooms and bars, and didn't cover all the extra hospitality areas, gyms, conferencing etc etc Presumably those would have been added on and paid for as we soared ever upwards to glory.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2019 14:40:26 GMT
How much of the value of the mem site set off against the so called Wonga loan and how much of the value of the mem is set off against the amount loaned to the club by Dwayne sports? Must admit my memory vague now but I think it was around £8m on the Wonga and no one knows how much now.... Bearing in mind none of the other directors would put in any more money to support Higgs at the time as repayment of the loan approached. Don't know how much further the AQs are prepared to go. As Toyah used to say, It's a mystewy.... The loan was,with interest app 3m and at the time the mem was valued at 25m so no danger of the ground being sold,just take out another loan to repay the first,its done regularly by companies and football clubs.Which explodes the urban myth that we were on the verge of administration,as Wael stated just after the take over they were among 10 consortia wanting to buy the club. As for how long they will support the debt,who knows?but the time will come in the near future
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2019 14:43:16 GMT
Meanwhile we have another club happy to operate on a 50 year lease that has just been extended to 250 and they have managed to develop a good ground in limited space already never mind what they intend to do next.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-48680944
The old board saw no problem with a 125 year lease and neither did the late Geoff Dunford. I would trust GD to do the right thing for the football club 1,000 x more than the duplicitous and weak Wael and his disinterested family.
When did the last local council evict a football league club? It's a bit different than leasing from a private concern, just look at the mess Coventry City. Don't forget GD introduced NH to the board and that ended with us in the Conference then a narrow escape from going into Admin, not every decision he made was the right one plus he never managed to redevelop the Mem. Illness forced GD to do what he did no other reason
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2019 14:47:26 GMT
Is there a real difference? If someone lends us £20m, we owe them £20m plus interest. The Al-Qadis extend our credit to £20m, and we owe them £20m plus interest. Of course there is a difference. They own the club. It's just how a lot of football clubs do it. If it was a loan from Wonga and we had to repay it now, we would be in big trouble. They probably won't ever get the loan back. We are only in trouble if they say they have had enough and want it re paid. Yet loads want them out now. They are also bankers and bankers want cash advances repaid within a specified time plus interest. I have yet to meet an altruistic banker
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2019 14:55:02 GMT
When did the last local council evict a football league club? It's a bit different than leasing from a private concern, just look at the mess Coventry City. Don't forget GD introduced NH to the board and that ended with us in the Conference then a narrow escape from going into Admin, not every decision he made was the right one plus he never managed to redevelop the Mem. Illness forced GD to do what he did no other reason GD was not ill when he invited NH into the boardroom but as he's not here to confirm maybe its best left in history.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2019 15:11:23 GMT
His illness was diagnosed long before it became public knowledge that he was not well
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2019 15:14:02 GMT
Is there a real difference? If someone lends us £20m, we owe them £20m plus interest. The Al-Qadis extend our credit to £20m, and we owe them £20m plus interest. Of course there is a difference. They own the club. It's just how a lot of football clubs do it. If it was a loan from Wonga and we had to repay it now, we would be in big trouble. They probably won't ever get the loan back. We are only in trouble if they say they have had enough and want it re paid. Yet loads want them out now. How do you think Bolton got into the mess they are in,loans from the owner,ring a bell?
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Post by Topper Gas on Jun 21, 2019 15:17:35 GMT
What purpose has the civil service been sold for? If it is for housing, this could see an increase in revenue for Rovers, ie even more demand for car parking and food and drink at the stadium. I've no idea that's just the figure being mention on the other Rovers forum, I assume it must be housing as I doubt they'd get pp for anything commercial, particularly if they can't sort out the restricted access, although I assume if they are spending that type of money they can easily buy up more houses on Filton Ave to allow better access. I'm not really sure there's any evidence the occupiers of any housing would all suddenly become Gasheads, Tubshaw Ave residents are probably anti Gas!!
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Post by Big Jock on Jun 21, 2019 16:03:03 GMT
We could set up a sperm bank.
When I found out you could now donate sperm an earn money by post, I came in a jiffy.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2019 16:43:40 GMT
We could set up a sperm bank. When I found out you could now donate sperm an earn money by post, I came in a jiffy. ffs jock got me in stitches
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