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Post by Topper Gas on Jun 21, 2019 17:40:43 GMT
Of course there is a difference. They own the club. It's just how a lot of football clubs do it. If it was a loan from Wonga and we had to repay it now, we would be in big trouble. They probably won't ever get the loan back. We are only in trouble if they say they have had enough and want it re paid. Yet loads want them out now. How do you think Bolton got into the mess they are in,loans from the owner,ring a bell? It would be fairly embarrassing if the major shareholders in a foreign investment bank let us fall into Admin, it would hardly do their PR in the UK a lot of good.
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Post by buckaroo on Jun 21, 2019 18:56:56 GMT
Of course there is a difference. They own the club. It's just how a lot of football clubs do it. If it was a loan from Wonga and we had to repay it now, we would be in big trouble. They probably won't ever get the loan back. We are only in trouble if they say they have had enough and want it re paid. Yet loads want them out now. They are also bankers and bankers want cash advances repaid within a specified time plus interest. I have yet to meet an altruistic banker Hi. Nice to meet you.
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Post by daniel300380 on Jun 21, 2019 19:43:51 GMT
Of course there is a difference. They own the club. It's just how a lot of football clubs do it. If it was a loan from Wonga and we had to repay it now, we would be in big trouble. They probably won't ever get the loan back. We are only in trouble if they say they have had enough and want it re paid. Yet loads want them out now. How do you think Bolton got into the mess they are in,loans from the owner,ring a bell? Every club does the same though. So why use Bolton and not one of the many other clubs, that don't go into administration. For all we know they could pay off the loans once they mount up, like City do. Obviously it's a worry if they ever stop funding us, but it's no different to other clubs. Which is why fans should be careful, what they wish for. The ones telling them to go, should really think about what will happen. They will never see the money back, so it's not really a loan. It's just how a lot of business do things.
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Post by burnthewitch on Jun 22, 2019 9:58:52 GMT
How do you think Bolton got into the mess they are in,loans from the owner,ring a bell? Every club does the same though. So why use Bolton and not one of the many other clubs, that don't go into administration. For all we know they could pay off the loans once they mount up, like City do. Obviously it's a worry if they ever stop funding us, but it's no different to other clubs. Which is why fans should be careful, what they wish for. The ones telling them to go, should really think about what will happen. They will never see the money back, so it's not really a loan. It's just how a lot of business do things. Difficult to know where to start with this post. "Every club does the same though" (I presume you refer to "owners loan money to the Club"). This is patently incorrect. There are numerous structures and ways to finance football clubs. Some Clubs are run efficiently and do not post annual losses for starters. I actually think our structure is pretty unique. If another Club mirrors our structure - then please let me know. Sounds like you've thoroughly researched this. I mean 'mirror' with regard to the business model: credit facility, level of debt, inter-company 'loans', interest accrued, charge against equity, etc. Some people believe that the loans will not be called in. Some people will say that bankers have a habit of calling in their loans. A solution to the criticism levelled at Dwane Sports - would be to write off a large percentage (preferably all) of the loans. This is, as you rightly state, is what Pantsdown does at the sh*t. Plus of course all the interest that Dwane Sports has been charging BRFC would need to be written off. Writing off the loans would shut up the dissenters in a nano-second. This would prove conclusively that they are investing their money in the Club. C'mon Hani - write off a bulk of the loans and I'll STFU. Now everyone have a lovely day and enjoy the sunshine.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Jun 22, 2019 10:15:28 GMT
Every club does the same though. So why use Bolton and not one of the many other clubs, that don't go into administration. For all we know they could pay off the loans once they mount up, like City do. Obviously it's a worry if they ever stop funding us, but it's no different to other clubs. Which is why fans should be careful, what they wish for. The ones telling them to go, should really think about what will happen. They will never see the money back, so it's not really a loan. It's just how a lot of business do things. Difficult to know where to start with this post. "Every club does the same though" (I presume you refer to "owners loan money to the Club"). This is patently incorrect. There are numerous structures and ways to finance football clubs. Some Clubs are run efficiently and do not post annual losses for starters. I actually think our structure is pretty unique. If another Club mirrors our structure - then please let me know. Sounds like you've thoroughly researched this. I mean 'mirror' with regard to the business model: credit facility, level of debt, inter-company 'loans', interest accrued, charge against equity, etc. Some people believe that the loans will not be called in. Some people will say that bankers have a habit of calling in their loans. A solution to the criticism levelled at Dwane Sports - would be to write off a large percentage (preferably all) of the loans. This is, as you rightly state, is what Pantsdown does at the sh*t. Plus of course all the interest that Dwane Sports has been charging BRFC would need to be written off. Writing off the loans would shut up the dissenters in a nano-second. This would prove conclusively that they are investing their money in the Club. C'mon Hani - write off a bulk of the loans and I'll STFU. Now everyone have a lovely day and enjoy the sunshine. Even in the way they’re providing the loans they are investing their money in the club though, as if they want to get their money back they either need to find a way to generate income rapidly (player development and/or improving BRFC as a business) or sell the business. If they sell the business they’ll end up losing equity anyway as the value of the shares will be diminished by the increased debt. If they want to earn their money back, they’ll more or less need to make us a premier league entity in waiting to sell us to another family of billionaires or they’ll need to actually get us there. I don’t see how this is bad news for the club.
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Post by daniel300380 on Jun 22, 2019 14:44:04 GMT
Every club does the same though. So why use Bolton and not one of the many other clubs, that don't go into administration. For all we know they could pay off the loans once they mount up, like City do. Obviously it's a worry if they ever stop funding us, but it's no different to other clubs. Which is why fans should be careful, what they wish for. The ones telling them to go, should really think about what will happen. They will never see the money back, so it's not really a loan. It's just how a lot of business do things. Difficult to know where to start with this post. "Every club does the same though" (I presume you refer to "owners loan money to the Club"). This is patently incorrect. There are numerous structures and ways to finance football clubs. Some Clubs are run efficiently and do not post annual losses for starters. I actually think our structure is pretty unique. If another Club mirrors our structure - then please let me know. Sounds like you've thoroughly researched this. I mean 'mirror' with regard to the business model: credit facility, level of debt, inter-company 'loans', interest accrued, charge against equity, etc. Some people believe that the loans will not be called in. Some people will say that bankers have a habit of calling in their loans. A solution to the criticism levelled at Dwane Sports - would be to write off a large percentage (preferably all) of the loans. This is, as you rightly state, is what Pantsdown does at the sh*t. Plus of course all the interest that Dwane Sports has been charging BRFC would need to be written off. Writing off the loans would shut up the dissenters in a nano-second. This would prove conclusively that they are investing their money in the Club. C'mon Hani - write off a bulk of the loans and I'll STFU. Now everyone have a lovely day and enjoy the sunshine. City have taken over £50 million in loans, over the last few years. Including a £40 one to finance the refurbishment. He didn't even loan it himself, it was a bank loan. Yet according to most gasheads he paid for it himself. I never said we were run well, most football clubs are not. Just saying it's not time to panic yet. Even big clubs like Man United have massive loans taken out against them. There was an article about it not long ago, that included c**ys massive debts. Again it only becomes on issue if they stop paying them though.
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Post by burnthewitch on Jun 23, 2019 9:28:21 GMT
Difficult to know where to start with this post. "Every club does the same though" (I presume you refer to "owners loan money to the Club"). This is patently incorrect. There are numerous structures and ways to finance football clubs. Some Clubs are run efficiently and do not post annual losses for starters. I actually think our structure is pretty unique. If another Club mirrors our structure - then please let me know. Sounds like you've thoroughly researched this. I mean 'mirror' with regard to the business model: credit facility, level of debt, inter-company 'loans', interest accrued, charge against equity, etc. Some people believe that the loans will not be called in. Some people will say that bankers have a habit of calling in their loans. A solution to the criticism levelled at Dwane Sports - would be to write off a large percentage (preferably all) of the loans. This is, as you rightly state, is what Pantsdown does at the sh*t. Plus of course all the interest that Dwane Sports has been charging BRFC would need to be written off. Writing off the loans would shut up the dissenters in a nano-second. This would prove conclusively that they are investing their money in the Club. C'mon Hani - write off a bulk of the loans and I'll STFU. Now everyone have a lovely day and enjoy the sunshine. Even in the way they’re providing the loans they are investing their money in the club though, as if they want to get their money back they either need to find a way to generate income rapidly (player development and/or improving BRFC as a business) or sell the business. If they sell the business they’ll end up losing equity anyway as the value of the shares will be diminished by the increased debt. If they want to earn their money back, they’ll more or less need to make us a premier league entity in waiting to sell us to another family of billionaires or they’ll need to actually get us there. I don’t see how this is bad news for the club. I guess it boils down to belief. I do not believe Dwane Sports have a coherent strategy for getting themselves out of the smelly brown stuff. I do not believe that the major shareholders write out a cheque from their personal bank accounts to cover the annual losses. Dwane Sports draw down money from the credit facility which is founded on the equity value of the Memorial Stadium. Post-UWE I have heard nothing to convince me that there has been "a Plan". They've been spinning wheels for nearly 2 years. Plan B was to pretend to redevelop the Memorial Stadium, which bought them about a years breathing space. Plan C was actually Plan A, an attempt to resurrect UWE and it failed. Again. What is Plan D? You (and others) don't see a problem and believe that Dwane Sports can find "a way out". Blind faith in the face of an uncomfortable reality. Not a problem, I respect your opinion. Free country and all that. I still fear that the Al-Qadi family will lose patience with Wael and pull the plug. They won't want to sit on a large non-performing asset. One way out is to sell BRFC. However this is looking increasingly unlikely as it becomes increasingly expensive to a potential buyer. The only other viable alternative would appear to be to sell the Memorial Stadium, BRFC's only asset. People argue that this cannot happen - due to the reputational risk to Wael and the PR disaster that would surely ensue. And I kind of get that. But then I look at some tier 3 German sides... and what do I know about them? What international reputations do they have? If a Jordanian banker made Chemnitzer FC or FSV Zwickau or SV Meppen or Sonnenhof Grossaspach homeless - do you think that would damage the international reputation of the owners? (BTW - the average attendance for Bundesliga 3 is 8,130. Average attendance for Division 1 is 8,184. Weirdly close.) I think (as supporters) we think that Bristol Rovers are a very big deal and there is no danger that we will be left homeless - because are owners just wouldn't dare. However unpalatable, that option exists. Happy Sunday.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jun 23, 2019 11:38:12 GMT
Even in the way they’re providing the loans they are investing their money in the club though, as if they want to get their money back they either need to find a way to generate income rapidly (player development and/or improving BRFC as a business) or sell the business. If they sell the business they’ll end up losing equity anyway as the value of the shares will be diminished by the increased debt. If they want to earn their money back, they’ll more or less need to make us a premier league entity in waiting to sell us to another family of billionaires or they’ll need to actually get us there. I don’t see how this is bad news for the club. I guess it boils down to belief. I do not believe Dwane Sports have a coherent strategy for getting themselves out of the smelly brown stuff. I do not believe that the major shareholders write out a cheque from their personal bank accounts to cover the annual losses. Dwane Sports draw down money from the credit facility which is founded on the equity value of the Memorial Stadium. Post-UWE I have heard nothing to convince me that there has been "a Plan". They've been spinning wheels for nearly 2 years. Plan B was to pretend to redevelop the Memorial Stadium, which bought them about a years breathing space. Plan C was actually Plan A, an attempt to resurrect UWE and it failed. Again. What is Plan D? You (and others) don't see a problem and believe that Dwane Sports can find "a way out". Blind faith in the face of an uncomfortable reality. Not a problem, I respect your opinion. Free country and all that. I still fear that the Al-Qadi family will lose patience with Wael and pull the plug. They won't want to sit on a large non-performing asset. One way out is to sell BRFC. However this is looking increasingly unlikely as it becomes increasingly expensive to a potential buyer. The only other viable alternative would appear to be to sell the Memorial Stadium, BRFC's only asset. People argue that this cannot happen - due to the reputational risk to Wael and the PR disaster that would surely ensue. And I kind of get that. But then I look at some tier 3 German sides... and what do I know about them? What international reputations do they have? If a Jordanian banker made Chemnitzer FC or FSV Zwickau or SV Meppen or Sonnenhof Grossaspach homeless - do you think that would damage the international reputation of the owners? (BTW - the average attendance for Bundesliga 3 is 8,130. Average attendance for Division 1 is 8,184. Weirdly close.) I think (as supporters) we think that Bristol Rovers are a very big deal and there is no danger that we will be left homeless - because are owners just wouldn't dare. However unpalatable, that option exists. Happy Sunday. AJIB have a branch in London so it could effect their reputation here if they pulled the plug, plus I doubt another club would let Wael anywhere near them if he failed here, if he can't get a job in football where will he work if Hani decides he doesn't want him back at the AJIB anytime soon.
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Post by burnthewitch on Jun 23, 2019 12:57:29 GMT
I guess it boils down to belief. I do not believe Dwane Sports have a coherent strategy for getting themselves out of the smelly brown stuff. I do not believe that the major shareholders write out a cheque from their personal bank accounts to cover the annual losses. Dwane Sports draw down money from the credit facility which is founded on the equity value of the Memorial Stadium. Post-UWE I have heard nothing to convince me that there has been "a Plan". They've been spinning wheels for nearly 2 years. Plan B was to pretend to redevelop the Memorial Stadium, which bought them about a years breathing space. Plan C was actually Plan A, an attempt to resurrect UWE and it failed. Again. What is Plan D? You (and others) don't see a problem and believe that Dwane Sports can find "a way out". Blind faith in the face of an uncomfortable reality. Not a problem, I respect your opinion. Free country and all that. I still fear that the Al-Qadi family will lose patience with Wael and pull the plug. They won't want to sit on a large non-performing asset. One way out is to sell BRFC. However this is looking increasingly unlikely as it becomes increasingly expensive to a potential buyer. The only other viable alternative would appear to be to sell the Memorial Stadium, BRFC's only asset. People argue that this cannot happen - due to the reputational risk to Wael and the PR disaster that would surely ensue. And I kind of get that. But then I look at some tier 3 German sides... and what do I know about them? What international reputations do they have? If a Jordanian banker made Chemnitzer FC or FSV Zwickau or SV Meppen or Sonnenhof Grossaspach homeless - do you think that would damage the international reputation of the owners? (BTW - the average attendance for Bundesliga 3 is 8,130. Average attendance for Division 1 is 8,184. Weirdly close.) I think (as supporters) we think that Bristol Rovers are a very big deal and there is no danger that we will be left homeless - because are owners just wouldn't dare. However unpalatable, that option exists. Happy Sunday. AJIB have a branch in London so it could effect their reputation here if they pulled the plug, plus I doubt another club would let Wael anywhere near them if he failed here, if he can't get a job in football where will he work if Hani decides he doesn't want him back at the AJIB anytime soon. Mmm... well 1. AJIB are very small fry in banking terms. And if they managed to extricate themselves from Bristol Rovers without losing a penny... they would probably earn plaudits from the banking fraternity, not brickbats. As for "what about the way they treated supporters?" Honestly, no-one would give a bcfc1982. 2. Wael's foray into football ownership is probably dead. I don't give a bcfc1982. Not my problem. 3. And if Hani doesn't give him a job back at AJIB, I don't give a bcfc1982. Not my problem.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jun 23, 2019 13:51:39 GMT
AJIB have a branch in London so it could effect their reputation here if they pulled the plug, plus I doubt another club would let Wael anywhere near them if he failed here, if he can't get a job in football where will he work if Hani decides he doesn't want him back at the AJIB anytime soon. Mmm... well 1. AJIB are very small fry in banking terms. And if they managed to extricate themselves from Bristol Rovers without losing a penny... they would probably earn plaudits from the banking fraternity, not brickbats. As for "what about the way they treated supporters?" Honestly, no-one would give a bcfc1982. 2. Wael's foray into football ownership is probably dead. I don't give a bcfc1982. Not my problem. 3. And if Hani doesn't give him a job back at AJIB, I don't give a bcfc1982. Not my problem. I've also have no worries about what they do in the future if they move on I was merely looking at it from the ALQ's prospective. There must be some reasons they haven't just put us up for sale and reduced funding substantially once the UWE deal bit the dust.
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Post by burnthewitch on Jun 23, 2019 14:00:58 GMT
Mmm... well 1. AJIB are very small fry in banking terms. And if they managed to extricate themselves from Bristol Rovers without losing a penny... they would probably earn plaudits from the banking fraternity, not brickbats. As for "what about the way they treated supporters?" Honestly, no-one would give a bcfc1982. 2. Wael's foray into football ownership is probably dead. I don't give a bcfc1982. Not my problem. 3. And if Hani doesn't give him a job back at AJIB, I don't give a bcfc1982. Not my problem. I've also have no worries about what they do in the future if they move on I was merely looking at it from the ALQ's prospective. There must be some reasons they haven't just put us up for sale and reduced funding substantially once the UWE deal bit the dust. I think we have been up for sale for sometime. I don't blame the owners for keeping this strictly under wraps and a situation where NDA's would be appropriate. As for the lavish spending and ramping up of debt over the last 2 years? No-one knows. To show the semblance of "professionalism" to a prospective buyer? Maybe they're hoping someone else comes along and does an equally poor attempt at due diligence.
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Post by wertongas on Jun 23, 2019 14:01:02 GMT
If I remember rightly when Portsmouth went bankrupt their Indian owner tried to sell the ground, a football trust was set up which took the owners to court and the judge said the stadium belonged to the club and it's couldn't be sold.
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Post by tomylil on Jun 24, 2019 11:07:49 GMT
I guess it boils down to belief. I do not believe Dwane Sports have a coherent strategy for getting themselves out of the smelly brown stuff. I do not believe that the major shareholders write out a cheque from their personal bank accounts to cover the annual losses. Dwane Sports draw down money from the credit facility which is founded on the equity value of the Memorial Stadium. Post-UWE I have heard nothing to convince me that there has been "a Plan". They've been spinning wheels for nearly 2 years. Plan B was to pretend to redevelop the Memorial Stadium, which bought them about a years breathing space. Plan C was actually Plan A, an attempt to resurrect UWE and it failed. Again. What is Plan D? You (and others) don't see a problem and believe that Dwane Sports can find "a way out". Blind faith in the face of an uncomfortable reality. Not a problem, I respect your opinion. Free country and all that. I still fear that the Al-Qadi family will lose patience with Wael and pull the plug. They won't want to sit on a large non-performing asset. One way out is to sell BRFC. However this is looking increasingly unlikely as it becomes increasingly expensive to a potential buyer. The only other viable alternative would appear to be to sell the Memorial Stadium, BRFC's only asset. People argue that this cannot happen - due to the reputational risk to Wael and the PR disaster that would surely ensue. And I kind of get that. But then I look at some tier 3 German sides... and what do I know about them? What international reputations do they have? If a Jordanian banker made Chemnitzer FC or FSV Zwickau or SV Meppen or Sonnenhof Grossaspach homeless - do you think that would damage the international reputation of the owners? (BTW - the average attendance for Bundesliga 3 is 8,130. Average attendance for Division 1 is 8,184. Weirdly close.) I think (as supporters) we think that Bristol Rovers are a very big deal and there is no danger that we will be left homeless - because are owners just wouldn't dare. However unpalatable, that option exists. Happy Sunday. AJIB have a branch in London so it could effect their reputation here if they pulled the plug, plus I doubt another club would let Wael anywhere near them if he failed here, if he can't get a job in football where will he work if Hani decides he doesn't want him back at the AJIB anytime soon. Peter Risdale never seemed to have a problem after nearly ruining Leeds United did he ?
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Post by gashead1981 on Jun 24, 2019 11:45:03 GMT
I've also have no worries about what they do in the future if they move on I was merely looking at it from the ALQ's prospective. There must be some reasons they haven't just put us up for sale and reduced funding substantially once the UWE deal bit the dust. I think we have been up for sale for sometime. I don't blame the owners for keeping this strictly under wraps and a situation where NDA's would be appropriate. As for the lavish spending and ramping up of debt over the last 2 years? No-one knows. To show the semblance of "professionalism" to a prospective buyer? Maybe they're hoping someone else comes along and does an equally poor attempt at due diligence. You and others keep harping back to this, which is a similar tune, which was explained quite explicitly in the AGM by Wael when he was challenged on the finances. Presently for every £100 the club takes, £97 is taken up on first team playing staff. So we have £3 to pay coaching staff, development squad, employed directors, commercial team, club shop staff, grounds staff, chefs, cooks, paid rates, electric, gas and tax bills etc, which, a majority was requested by Darrell Clarke and given to him. So is it any wonder we have racked up those losses? Perhaps DC was given a little too much based on how many losses were/are incurred for the return we have gotten on that. For example if we had reached round 3 of the FA cup and round 2 of the league cup for the past 2 years that would have given us an income stream of about £750k across those 2 seasons. If we had gotten a big club the potential to earn more. But we have gone out in the early rounds for the last 2 years to non league or lower opposition. Yes there was the office in London, but when you break it down nothing much else is lavish.
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Post by peterparker on Jun 24, 2019 11:55:59 GMT
Every club does the same though. So why use Bolton and not one of the many other clubs, that don't go into administration. For all we know they could pay off the loans once they mount up, like City do. Obviously it's a worry if they ever stop funding us, but it's no different to other clubs. Which is why fans should be careful, what they wish for. The ones telling them to go, should really think about what will happen. They will never see the money back, so it's not really a loan. It's just how a lot of business do things. Difficult to know where to start with this post. "Every club does the same though" (I presume you refer to "owners loan money to the Club"). This is patently incorrect. There are numerous structures and ways to finance football clubs. Some Clubs are run efficiently and do not post annual losses for starters. I actually think our structure is pretty unique. If another Club mirrors our structure - then please let me know. Sounds like you've thoroughly researched this. I mean 'mirror' with regard to the business model: credit facility, level of debt, inter-company 'loans', interest accrued, charge against equity, etc. Some people believe that the loans will not be called in. Some people will say that bankers have a habit of calling in their loans. A solution to the criticism levelled at Dwane Sports - would be to write off a large percentage (preferably all) of the loans. This is, as you rightly state, is what Pantsdown does at the sh*t. Plus of course all the interest that Dwane Sports has been charging BRFC would need to be written off. Writing off the loans would shut up the dissenters in a nano-second. This would prove conclusively that they are investing their money in the Club. C'mon Hani - write off a bulk of the loans and I'll STFU. Now everyone have a lovely day and enjoy the sunshine. EAsy though spending someone elses money isn't it
DWane is essentially a compnay that collates the 4 owners share of 1883 ltd. Essentially no different to if it was 1 person who owned 92% of the shares in 1883 ltd.
Credit facility/loan essentially no different. the owner(s) could call it in at any time.
As for interest charged. done by other people and currently what is the net effect? nothing as they owe it to themselves. It could be written off at any time or not.
As I say though. Easy to spend other people's money
Edit. basic bit of research.
Burnden Leisure (e.g 1883 Ltd) own Bolton Wanderers A.F.C (Bristol Rovers)
Burnden Leisure owned by Fildraw e.g 1883 Ltd owned by Dwane Sports
Out of interest, how much writing off is deemed exceptable. Fildraw wrote off £5m of loans in 2017. they were still owed £170m mind you
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Post by peterparker on Jun 24, 2019 12:03:11 GMT
I think we have been up for sale for sometime. I don't blame the owners for keeping this strictly under wraps and a situation where NDA's would be appropriate. As for the lavish spending and ramping up of debt over the last 2 years? No-one knows. To show the semblance of "professionalism" to a prospective buyer? Maybe they're hoping someone else comes along and does an equally poor attempt at due diligence. You and others keep harping back to this, which is a similar tune, which was explained quite explicitly in the AGM by Wael when he was challenged on the finances. Presently for every £100 the club takes, £97 is taken up on first team playing staff. So we have £3 to pay coaching staff, development squad, employed directors, commercial team, club shop staff, grounds staff, chefs, cooks, paid rates, electric, gas and tax bills etc, which, a majority was requested by Darrell Clarke and given to him. So is it any wonder we have racked up those losses? Perhaps DC was given a little too much based on how many losses were/are incurred for the return we have gotten on that. For example if we had reached round 3 of the FA cup and round 2 of the league cup for the past 2 years that would have given us an income stream of about £750k across those 2 seasons. If we had gotten a big club the potential to earn more. But we have gone out in the early rounds for the last 2 years to non league or lower opposition. Yes there was the office in London, but when you break it down nothing much else is lavish. I thought the 97% covered all staff costs otherwise we would be inserious breach of the SCmp/FFP or whatever it was called
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Post by burnthewitch on Jun 24, 2019 13:21:56 GMT
Difficult to know where to start with this post. "Every club does the same though" (I presume you refer to "owners loan money to the Club"). This is patently incorrect. There are numerous structures and ways to finance football clubs. Some Clubs are run efficiently and do not post annual losses for starters. I actually think our structure is pretty unique. If another Club mirrors our structure - then please let me know. Sounds like you've thoroughly researched this. I mean 'mirror' with regard to the business model: credit facility, level of debt, inter-company 'loans', interest accrued, charge against equity, etc. Some people believe that the loans will not be called in. Some people will say that bankers have a habit of calling in their loans. A solution to the criticism levelled at Dwane Sports - would be to write off a large percentage (preferably all) of the loans. This is, as you rightly state, is what Pantsdown does at the sh*t. Plus of course all the interest that Dwane Sports has been charging BRFC would need to be written off. Writing off the loans would shut up the dissenters in a nano-second. This would prove conclusively that they are investing their money in the Club. C'mon Hani - write off a bulk of the loans and I'll STFU. Now everyone have a lovely day and enjoy the sunshine. EAsy though spending someone elses money isn't it DWane is essentially a compnay that collates the 4 owners share of 1883 ltd. Essentially no different to if it was 1 person who owned 92% of the shares in 1883 ltd.
Credit facility/loan essentially no different. the owner(s) could call it in at any time.
As for interest charged. done by other people and currently what is the net effect? nothing as they owe it to themselves. It could be written off at any time or not.
As I say though. Easy to spend other people's money
Edit. basic bit of research. Burnden Leisure (e.g 1883 Ltd) own Bolton Wanderers A.F.C (Bristol Rovers)
Burnden Leisure owned by Fildraw e.g 1883 Ltd owned by Dwane Sports
Out of interest, how much writing off is deemed exceptable. Fildraw wrote off £5m of loans in 2017. they were still owed £170m mind you
I guess if you don't want to spend your own money - then don't buy a Football Club. What would be acceptable (exceptable)? Something meaningful. For me - All the interest that Dwane Sports have charged Bristol Rovers would be a nice start. The Directors write out personal cheques - it's 100% definitely their money they're using to pay of some of the debt. And I'll STFU. (I don't know enough about Bolton to really comment. It is staggering that EFL governance is so weak that they could allow a member to get into such an unbelievable financial mess).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 13:32:46 GMT
You and others keep harping back to this, which is a similar tune, which was explained quite explicitly in the AGM by Wael when he was challenged on the finances. Presently for every £100 the club takes, £97 is taken up on first team playing staff. So we have £3 to pay coaching staff, development squad, employed directors, commercial team, club shop staff, grounds staff, chefs, cooks, paid rates, electric, gas and tax bills etc, which, a majority was requested by Darrell Clarke and given to him. So is it any wonder we have racked up those losses? Perhaps DC was given a little too much based on how many losses were/are incurred for the return we have gotten on that. For example if we had reached round 3 of the FA cup and round 2 of the league cup for the past 2 years that would have given us an income stream of about £750k across those 2 seasons. If we had gotten a big club the potential to earn more. But we have gone out in the early rounds for the last 2 years to non league or lower opposition. Yes there was the office in London, but when you break it down nothing much else is lavish. I thought the 97% covered all staff costs otherwise we would be inserious breach of the SCmp/FFP or whatever it was called Yeah, this baffles me as well. I thought a club could only spend 60% on players wages?
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Post by peterparker on Jun 24, 2019 13:53:25 GMT
EAsy though spending someone elses money isn't it DWane is essentially a compnay that collates the 4 owners share of 1883 ltd. Essentially no different to if it was 1 person who owned 92% of the shares in 1883 ltd.
Credit facility/loan essentially no different. the owner(s) could call it in at any time.
As for interest charged. done by other people and currently what is the net effect? nothing as they owe it to themselves. It could be written off at any time or not.
As I say though. Easy to spend other people's money
Edit. basic bit of research. Burnden Leisure (e.g 1883 Ltd) own Bolton Wanderers A.F.C (Bristol Rovers)
Burnden Leisure owned by Fildraw e.g 1883 Ltd owned by Dwane Sports
Out of interest, how much writing off is deemed exceptable. Fildraw wrote off £5m of loans in 2017. they were still owed £170m mind you
I guess if you don't want to spend your own money - then don't buy a Football Club. What would be acceptable (exceptable)? Something meaningful. For me - All the interest that Dwane Sports have charged Bristol Rovers would be a nice start. The Directors write out personal cheques - it's 100% definitely their money they're using to pay of some of the debt. And I'll STFU. (I don't know enough about Bolton to really comment. It is staggering that EFL governance is so weak that they could allow a member to get into such an unbelievable financial mess). yes acceptable, was typing too fast.
even if they wrote off all the interest owed plus a million quid they didn't think they would get back, there would still be nothing stopping them flogging the Mem and recouping 90% of their money if they so wished
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Post by burnthewitch on Jun 24, 2019 14:55:31 GMT
I guess if you don't want to spend your own money - then don't buy a Football Club. What would be acceptable (exceptable)? Something meaningful. For me - All the interest that Dwane Sports have charged Bristol Rovers would be a nice start. The Directors write out personal cheques - it's 100% definitely their money they're using to pay of some of the debt. And I'll STFU. (I don't know enough about Bolton to really comment. It is staggering that EFL governance is so weak that they could allow a member to get into such an unbelievable financial mess). yes acceptable, was typing too fast. even if they wrote off all the interest owed plus a million quid they didn't think they would get back, there would still be nothing stopping them flogging the Mem and recouping 90% of their money if they so wished
Better than them getting 100% of their money back! Suffice to say that the option of the Memorial Stadium being sold is there. Every month we wait for Plan B to materialise, that option (IMHO) becomes more likely. We'll have to wait and see what happens when the money runs out (money as in the equity in the Memorial Stadium). Should Dwane Sports start pumping their own money into the Club then - I will applaud them.
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