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Post by Henbury Gas on Jul 12, 2019 12:33:50 GMT
Ogogo does the dirty job. He wins tackles and gives the ball to other players. He does it a lot better than Sinclair used to. Every team needs a player like that. It's not all about assist stats etc. If you don't get the ball in the first place, you can't do anything with it. I know all that, but I don't think he does any of that particularly well. A very limited player in my opinion. So would you Rate Sincs above Ogogo ?
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Post by daniel300380 on Jul 12, 2019 12:38:32 GMT
So you would rather have Payne, than JCH?? Sinclair over Ogogo?? I said than this time last year. Our form was not too bad, come then end of the season anyway. Bonham was not our keeper anyway. I would rather have the 2 keepers we signed, than the 2 we started off with last season. The windows not shut yet. We can still sign player's, like we did last season. So it's best to judge us, against this time last season. I would say we are stronger in the full back areas, in midfield and upfront. We could be stronger in goal as well, but too early to say, either way. Lockyer is the only player we will miss. Even Bonham's form dropped after a good few months and he never got a game at championship level. Plus the Dutch keeper is younger than him. You said stronger than this time last year and I said from the end of the season. I'm just judging from the end of last season like I normally would. Sinclair or Ogogo? In an ideal world I wouldn't have either, but I certainly don't think Ogogo is a significant upgrade on Sincs. Both limited footballers at this level. Re the Goalkeepers. We'll have to wait and see how they get on, but I'd rather a keeper that has kept 33 clean sheets over the past couple of seasons, rather than a 32-year-old who has only been a regular in South Africa and only played 130+ games at his age and the other one who's main experience was in the Dutch 4th tier where he conceded roughly 2 goals a game on average. You say "our form was not too bad, come then end of the season anyway" but I would say it was quite poor with only 2 wins in our last 10 games, it was just fortunate that we managed to pick up enough points when Coughlan initially took over to keep us safe. Plus we only actually lost 3 of those games and won the 2 before. So of the last 12. We won 4, lost 3 and drew 5. Could have been better, but could have been worse. About average really and JCH was carrying an injury, or we might have picked up more points.
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Post by 2nd May 1990 on Jul 12, 2019 14:40:50 GMT
It's certainly stronger than this time last year. JCH is definitely an upgrade on Payne. Ogago is an upgrade on Sinclair IMO. They certainly helped us survive. Too early to judge the keepers. But Reading fans said the keeper was ok and should have played more. Looks like we have improved the right back area. Improved the left back area, we even signed a player that you wanted us to sign. Lockyer will obviously be a miss, so we will probally be weaker in the middle of defence. But he used to go off on international duty and miss games anyway. So we might have a more settled defence now, which can help. Still need wingers IMO, but we were already weak in that area anyway. The only area that looks stronger to me from the end of last season is the full backs. I agree - and even then that’s with a major caveat given Holmes-Dennis potentially being out long-term and Kelly also injured.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 12, 2019 15:12:00 GMT
I know all that, but I don't think he does any of that particularly well. A very limited player in my opinion. So would you Rate Sincs above Ogogo ? Don't rate either.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 12, 2019 17:00:42 GMT
So you would rather have Payne, than JCH?? Sinclair over Ogogo?? I said than this time last year. Our form was not too bad, come then end of the season anyway. Bonham was not our keeper anyway. I would rather have the 2 keepers we signed, than the 2 we started off with last season. The windows not shut yet. We can still sign player's, like we did last season. So it's best to judge us, against this time last season. I would say we are stronger in the full back areas, in midfield and upfront. We could be stronger in goal as well, but too early to say, either way. Lockyer is the only player we will miss. Even Bonham's form dropped after a good few months and he never got a game at championship level. Plus the Dutch keeper is younger than him. The current squad is way better than this time last season without a doubt Problem is on paper last season's squad was decent until we saw them play, Bonham in goal, Leads & THD as FB's, Sercs & Lines expected to do OK again in the middle, then a frontline including two players from Shrewsbury's double Wembley appearance team. The only weak link was Nichols but we'd brought in Reilly & Jakubiak as back up
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Post by Henbury Gas on Jul 12, 2019 18:03:23 GMT
So would you Rate Sincs above Ogogo ? Don't rate either. Thats not what i asked, ok which is the better player then ?
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Post by pirate on Jul 12, 2019 18:13:37 GMT
Thats not what i asked, ok which is the better player then ? Tough to say as I don't rate either, but if I was pushed to name one, I'd say Ogogo. Just.
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Post by lastminutewinner on Jul 12, 2019 18:46:02 GMT
Still a few weeks left but this squad as it is will struggle imo.
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Post by eastgas on Jul 12, 2019 19:31:31 GMT
Still time to go in this window and I believe with a couple of quality additions we could be in for a very good season. As it stands currently I believe this squad is as strong as last season and under GC this squad will be mid table. With one or two quality additions in the right areas I think could push us on to have a great season
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2019 20:28:51 GMT
So would you Rate Sincs above Ogogo ? Don't rate either. I rate both. Equally. Which was my point, I'm fine with Ogogo but don't feel he gives us anything more than we had with Sinclair. However, he's the manager's choice so we move on...that's football. I think this type of selfless player is essential for a lower division side. In fact, there's an argument that even at the top level, a Kante is a similar type of player (obviously better before anyone calls it!) and he is vital to Chelsea and France. Odd how Sinclair was sometimes derided for a lack of quality, yet he covered every blade of grass, won countless tackles and interceptions and rarely gave the ball away. Alongside the right player, he was a bloody good midfielder at Conference, League 2 and League 1 level.
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Post by pirate on Jul 12, 2019 21:18:09 GMT
I rate both. Equally. Which was my point, I'm fine with Ogogo but don't feel he gives us anything more than we had with Sinclair. However, he's the manager's choice so we move on...that's football. I think this type of selfless player is essential for a lower division side. In fact, there's an argument that even at the top level, a Kante is a similar type of player (obviously better before anyone calls it!) and he is vital to Chelsea and France. Odd how Sinclair was sometimes derided for a lack of quality, yet he covered every blade of grass, won countless tackles and interceptions and rarely gave the ball away. Alongside the right player, he was a bloody good midfielder at Conference, League 2 and League 1 level. When I say I don't rate either, of course I appreciate what Sincs did for us and I thought he was a decent player at league two level, but his tactical disciple was poor and when he was running around like a heaďless chicken he left gaps that were exposed at this level. Ogogo has better tactical discipline which gives him the slight edge for me. But, if we want to challènge for the top 10 or even the playoffs (which has to be the aim at the start of every season, even if that means over achieving) then we have to get better IMHO.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2019 21:28:52 GMT
I rate both. Equally. Which was my point, I'm fine with Ogogo but don't feel he gives us anything more than we had with Sinclair. However, he's the manager's choice so we move on...that's football. I think this type of selfless player is essential for a lower division side. In fact, there's an argument that even at the top level, a Kante is a similar type of player (obviously better before anyone calls it!) and he is vital to Chelsea and France. Odd how Sinclair was sometimes derided for a lack of quality, yet he covered every blade of grass, won countless tackles and interceptions and rarely gave the ball away. Alongside the right player, he was a bloody good midfielder at Conference, League 2 and League 1 level. When I say I don't rate either, of course I appreciate what Sincs did for us and I thought he was a decent player at league two level, but his tactical disciple was poor and when he was running around like a heaďless chicken he left gaps that were exposed at this level. Ogogo has better tactical discipline which gives him the slight edge for me. But, if we want to challènge for the top 10 or even the playoffs (which has to be the aim at the start of every season, even if that means over achieving) then we have to get better IMHO. If play offs or top ten is the aim, then I would agree that we may need better to achieve that. As would be the case in a number of positions. I understand what you are saying about the top ten or play offs being the aim. Yes, the club, manager and players should aim for that, but as fans we need to be mindful that achieving that may not be realistic. I think this squad is and should be capable of finishing mid table IF we add some creativity AND the manager changes our style of play. If not, I think it's another relegation battle.
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Post by lpgas on Jul 12, 2019 22:43:59 GMT
I rate both. Equally. Which was my point, I'm fine with Ogogo but don't feel he gives us anything more than we had with Sinclair. However, he's the manager's choice so we move on...that's football. I think this type of selfless player is essential for a lower division side. In fact, there's an argument that even at the top level, a Kante is a similar type of player (obviously better before anyone calls it!) and he is vital to Chelsea and France. Odd how Sinclair was sometimes derided for a lack of quality, yet he covered every blade of grass, won countless tackles and interceptions and rarely gave the ball away. Alongside the right player, he was a bloody good midfielder at Conference, League 2 and League 1 level. and that was part of the problem, he would go chasing the ball and leave a gap where he should have been
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Post by madgas on Jul 13, 2019 8:22:23 GMT
When I say I don't rate either, of course I appreciate what Sincs did for us and I thought he was a decent player at league two level, but his tactical disciple was poor and when he was running around like a heaďless chicken he left gaps that were exposed at this level. Ogogo has better tactical discipline which gives him the slight edge for me. But, if we want to challènge for the top 10 or even the playoffs (which has to be the aim at the start of every season, even if that means over achieving) then we have to get better IMHO. If play offs or top ten is the aim, then I would agree that we may need better to achieve that. As would be the case in a number of positions. I understand what you are saying about the top ten or play offs being the aim. Yes, the club, manager and players should aim for that, but as fans we need to be mindful that achieving that may not be realistic. I think this squad is and should be capable of finishing mid table IF we add some creativity AND the manager changes our style of play. If not, I think it's another relegation battle. I think that having a forward thinking RB will increase our creativity significantly. I also think Ogogo is a slight upgrade on Sincs. I agree that sincs was underrated. But also in truth- he rarely had a season without injury interruption. That was very sad. Ogogo has very good switch ball.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 13, 2019 10:00:25 GMT
If play offs or top ten is the aim, then I would agree that we may need better to achieve that. As would be the case in a number of positions. I understand what you are saying about the top ten or play offs being the aim. Yes, the club, manager and players should aim for that, but as fans we need to be mindful that achieving that may not be realistic. I think this squad is and should be capable of finishing mid table IF we add some creativity AND the manager changes our style of play. If not, I think it's another relegation battle. I think that having a forward thinking RB will increase our creativity significantly. I also think Ogogo is a slight upgrade on Sincs. I agree that sincs was underrated. But also in truth- he rarely had a season without injury interruption. That was very sad. Ogogo has very good switch ball. How can a player who hardly started last season be underated? Truth is that he should have been released last summer and an Ogogo type player brought in then. He really wasted a year of his EFL career with us last season.
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Post by madgas on Jul 13, 2019 10:39:59 GMT
I think that having a forward thinking RB will increase our creativity significantly. I also think Ogogo is a slight upgrade on Sincs. I agree that sincs was underrated. But also in truth- he rarely had a season without injury interruption. That was very sad. Ogogo has very good switch ball. How can a player who hardly started last season be underated? Truth is that he should have been released last summer and an Ogogo type player brought in then. He really wasted a year of his EFL career with us last season. Crazy amount of hindsight being used here. Yes, looking back perhaps I'd agree. He could have moved on last summer. But he wasnt to know DC would be sacked? There weren't too many predicting the truly awful start we had. And clearly a player not used can be underrated.... Jose barely used De Bruyne. Or closer to home- JCH. Ogogo is decent.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2019 12:55:07 GMT
I think that having a forward thinking RB will increase our creativity significantly. I also think Ogogo is a slight upgrade on Sincs. I agree that sincs was underrated. But also in truth- he rarely had a season without injury interruption. That was very sad. Ogogo has very good switch ball. How can a player who hardly started last season be underated? Truth is that he should have been released last summer and an Ogogo type player brought in then. He really wasted a year of his EFL career with us last season. I would have thought the reason he didn't start as much last season, aside from injuries, was precisely because he was underrated. Mainly by the manager.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 14, 2019 6:50:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2019 7:03:20 GMT
Starting to look like deja vu regarding a marquee striker and quality creative midfielder as far as I am concerned.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 14, 2019 7:14:39 GMT
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