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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 13:54:59 GMT
I've defended TM for ages now, however looking at last night and last Saturday, it's time to change. Would it be better to give Moore some game time? He may not produce more than TN but at least he'd be getting some experience which surely would only help him improve. With youngsters they can sometimes surprise you when given the chance. Moore is twenty years old. If he's not given a chance now, then just what is the point of him being at the club? Let's see what he can do, because I'm pretty sure his contribution to the team cannot be any worse than we are getting from TN. TN is just to fragile. Last night there were balls played down the channel which he got on the end of, only for a defender to give him a slight nudge where he then loses the ball and the defender literally walks away from him with the ball. Even when you are going through a bad patch, you can still run and fight. You can still be physical and be difficult to be knocked off the ball. He just looks like he's broken mentally. Let me reiterate, I am not a TN knocker. I've always backed him as I think he is a good footballer, but at the moment he is just not contributing to the team. It is also noticeable that if TN makes an early mistake you can hear the groans from the crowd. This must have some effect on both the player and the team. I know some say the crowd should lift the players, but sometimes you need the players to lift the crowd. When the groans start early, the crowd becomes muted, and it's a terrible atmosphere.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 14:27:29 GMT
I’d put him in the dev squad to never be seen again - useless tart
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Post by wilmslowgas on Oct 23, 2019 14:58:13 GMT
I think the vast majority of supporters want all players to do well; however, there will be a small majority of "fans" who take a perverse delight in the poor performances of certain players. I suspect it's the same at most clubs.
What is clear at Rovers is the increasing general disenchantment with some players who should not be in the squad let alone starting line up. For me, my heart sinks when I see the following names on the team sheet:
1. Nichols: this subject done to death. Get rid in January (loan or transfer). It's gone beyond a joke. 2. Bennett: as above. No end product, slows game down & loses possession too frequently. 3. Clarke: there are better defensive midfield players at the club. His return to the team has seen a significant downturn in fortunes. Why is he captain? His captaincy cannot be based on leadership skills or playing ability. 4. Kelly: at present he is not L1 quality. Loan him out hopefully to L2 club and let him make his way at that level and reassess next close season.
The team are not scoring goals and that will continue with TN playing and JCH unfit. It's surely worth trying somebody different up front, for example Moore or even Rodman. They can hardly do worse.
UTG
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Post by LJG on Oct 23, 2019 15:00:06 GMT
What if it was the 83rd time you'd instructed that solicitor and he turned up saying the same thing? Would you instruct him again? I must say I disliked the jeering of Tom immensely. I found it heartbreaking when he was visibly upset on leaving the field. He is a human with emotions. This must be a very unhappy time for him. No I wouldn't, but the analogy I replied to was used to support the idea of abusing him, so I continued that analogy. If there was an analogy to support the idea of dropping him, I don't think I'd bother to dispute that. Obviously dropping him is an entirely reasonable conclusion. The idea that it might be a good idea to abuse him because you have a right to abuse him is more debatable. That's the bother with analogies. Never know where they're going to end up. It's like if you were a bus driver and I was a butcher and I tried to pay you in lamb chops but you drop me off in Weston Super Mare instead of Kewstoke. See what I mean?
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Post by cj on Oct 23, 2019 15:16:21 GMT
I hate the way Nichols is being treated. I think it's very harsh. With mental health being treated now as something with great importance, Nichols needs support and not what he receives regularly from the crowd in every single game.
For the record, I personally don't think he is good enough for us. He is a striker and therefore he's in the team and is paid to make/get goals. The amount of minutes on the pitch that he's had shows he is not good enough at our level when you see his lack of goals/assists. But regardless of his ability, he has always given his best for us and have always worked hard for the team. As a striker though, work rate alone is not enough. But it should be enough not be treated so negatively and be made the scapegoat.
It's not his fault that we signed him. It's not his fault that he has the price tag of being our record transfer fee paid. It's not his fault that he keeps being picked to start games or brought on from the bench.
So his harsh treatment is unfair and this has massively contributed towards his confidence to be completely shot to pieces. I don't care what anyone says, if you were being abused/moaned/groaned at for every single thing you did in your work place, you would not cope as well as Nichols has. There is only so much this guy can take. Again, he needs support.
While he remains with us and is on the pitch, I will be actively supporting him. The 12th man is very powerful in many ways. Currently the 12th man is is doing so much harm than good.
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Post by dragonfly on Oct 23, 2019 15:44:07 GMT
I hate the way Nichols is being treated. I think it's very harsh. With mental health being treated now as something with great importance, Nichols needs support and not what he receives regularly from the crowd in every single game. For the record, I personally don't think he is good enough for us. He is a striker and therefore he's in the team and is paid to make/get goals. The amount of minutes on the pitch that he's had shows he is not good enough at our level when you see his lack of goals/assists. But regardless of his ability, he has always given his best for us and have always worked hard for the team. As a striker though, work rate alone is not enough. But it should be enough not be treated so negatively and be made the scapegoat. It's not his fault that we signed him. It's not his fault that he has the price tag of being our record transfer fee paid. It's not his fault that he keeps being picked to start games or brought on from the bench. So his harsh treatment is unfair and this has massively contributed towards his confidence to be completely shot to pieces. I don't care what anyone says, if you were being abused/moaned/groaned at for every single thing you did in your work place, you would not cope as well as Nichols has. There is only so much this guy can take. Again, he needs support. While he remains with us and is on the pitch, I will be actively supporting him. The 12th man is very powerful in many ways. Currently the 12th man is is doing so much harm than good. The signs are there and I am also concerned for Tom's health.
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Post by gas11light on Oct 23, 2019 15:55:27 GMT
I hate the way Nichols is being treated. I think it's very harsh. With mental health being treated now as something with great importance, Nichols needs support and not what he receives regularly from the crowd in every single game. For the record, I personally don't think he is good enough for us. He is a striker and therefore he's in the team and is paid to make/get goals. The amount of minutes on the pitch that he's had shows he is not good enough at our level when you see his lack of goals/assists. But regardless of his ability, he has always given his best for us and have always worked hard for the team. As a striker though, work rate alone is not enough. But it should be enough not be treated so negatively and be made the scapegoat. It's not his fault that we signed him. It's not his fault that he has the price tag of being our record transfer fee paid. It's not his fault that he keeps being picked to start games or brought on from the bench. So his harsh treatment is unfair and this has massively contributed towards his confidence to be completely shot to pieces. I don't care what anyone says, if you were being abused/moaned/groaned at for every single thing you did in your work place, you would not cope as well as Nichols has. There is only so much this guy can take. Again, he needs support. While he remains with us and is on the pitch, I will be actively supporting him. The 12th man is very powerful in many ways. Currently the 12th man is is doing so much harm than good. .. how long do you support someone who’s completely incompetent at their job ?.. personally would have thought a couple years is long enough.
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Post by station on Oct 23, 2019 16:27:27 GMT
I have consistently supported Tom - his work ethic cannot be doubted, but I fear he is never going to make it happen playing in the blue & white quarters - time to go.
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Post by oldgas on Oct 23, 2019 16:45:46 GMT
There have comments to the effect that others were as poor as Tom last night. Whilst that's undoubtedly true, it's one thing for a player to have the occasional poor game, Nicholls has one every single time.
Also, if he is suffering mental distress, it's up to the club to ensure the correct interventions are put in place. If he is suffering, then the last thing they should be doing is asking him to play.
It's really not the fault of the supporters, who are entitled to criticise the team and individuals if they're not performing.
They get paid decent money to do a job, it's up to the employer to ensure they do, and get them help if it's needed.
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 23, 2019 17:39:15 GMT
There have comments to the effect that others were as poor as Tom last night. Whilst that's undoubtedly true, it's one thing for a player to have the occasional poor game, Nicholls has one every single time. Also, if he is suffering mental distress, it's up to the club to ensure the correct interventions are put in place. If he is suffering, then the last thing they should be doing is asking him to play. It's really not the fault of the supporters, who are entitled to criticise the team and individuals if they're not performing. They get paid decent money to do a job, it's up to the employer to ensure they do, and get them help if it's needed. Who said he's suffering mental stress, you don't half come out with nonsense.
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Post by james246 on Oct 23, 2019 17:45:25 GMT
I hate the way Nichols is being treated. I think it's very harsh. With mental health being treated now as something with great importance, Nichols needs support and not what he receives regularly from the crowd in every single game. For the record, I personally don't think he is good enough for us. He is a striker and therefore he's in the team and is paid to make/get goals. The amount of minutes on the pitch that he's had shows he is not good enough at our level when you see his lack of goals/assists. But regardless of his ability, he has always given his best for us and have always worked hard for the team. As a striker though, work rate alone is not enough. But it should be enough not be treated so negatively and be made the scapegoat. It's not his fault that we signed him. It's not his fault that he has the price tag of being our record transfer fee paid. It's not his fault that he keeps being picked to start games or brought on from the bench. So his harsh treatment is unfair and this has massively contributed towards his confidence to be completely shot to pieces. I don't care what anyone says, if you were being abused/moaned/groaned at for every single thing you did in your work place, you would not cope as well as Nichols has. There is only so much this guy can take. Again, he needs support. While he remains with us and is on the pitch, I will be actively supporting him. The 12th man is very powerful in many ways. Currently the 12th man is is doing so much harm than good. The signs are there and I am also concerned for Tom's health. The manager should have taken Tom out of the firing line along time ago, the situation is no good for him or the player
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Post by oldgas on Oct 23, 2019 17:46:22 GMT
Well, I think it's been mentioned several times. When Nicholls was substituted I saw he was in tears, I'd say that is a pretty good indication. Still, don't let anything get in the way of having a cheap pop Topper; it's never stopped you in the past.
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Post by Rod1883 on Oct 23, 2019 17:54:29 GMT
Well, I think it's been mentioned several times. When Nicholls was substituted I saw he was in tears, I'd say that is a pretty good indication. Still, don't let anything get in the way of having a cheap pop Topper; it's never stopped you in the past. That's a real shame, and a worry for his health. As James 246 says, GC should have taken him out of the firing line earlier. It seems that the missed penalty, and the early miss last night have almost finished the lad. Perhaps GC was hoping that Bolton's young defence would offer the opportunity for TN to find some confidence, but sadly not. The best for TN and the team would be to quietly give him some time away from match days and ensure he gets proper support.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Oct 23, 2019 17:56:53 GMT
Well, I think it's been mentioned several times. When Nicholls was substituted I saw he was in tears, I'd say that is a pretty good indication. Still, don't let anything get in the way of having a cheap pop Topper; it's never stopped you in the past. That's a real shame, and a worry for his health. As James 246 says, GC should have taken him out of the firing line earlier. It seems that the missed penalty, and the early miss last night have almost finished the lad. Perhaps GC was hoping that Bolton's young defence would offer the opportunity for TN to find some confidence, but sadly not. The best for TN and the team would be to quietly give him some time away from match days and ensure he gets proper support. It's a great shame coz, after all that's happened, it came so close to working out (while JCH is away). That Pen and the early chance against Bolton scored, and things could have looked so different.
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Post by paulpirate on Oct 23, 2019 18:33:38 GMT
I hate the way Nichols is being treated. I think it's very harsh. With mental health being treated now as something with great importance, Nichols needs support and not what he receives regularly from the crowd in every single game. For the record, I personally don't think he is good enough for us. He is a striker and therefore he's in the team and is paid to make/get goals. The amount of minutes on the pitch that he's had shows he is not good enough at our level when you see his lack of goals/assists. But regardless of his ability, he has always given his best for us and have always worked hard for the team. As a striker though, work rate alone is not enough. But it should be enough not be treated so negatively and be made the scapegoat. It's not his fault that we signed him. It's not his fault that he has the price tag of being our record transfer fee paid. It's not his fault that he keeps being picked to start games or brought on from the bench. So his harsh treatment is unfair and this has massively contributed towards his confidence to be completely shot to pieces. I don't care what anyone says, if you were being abused/moaned/groaned at for every single thing you did in your work place, you would not cope as well as Nichols has. There is only so much this guy can take. Again, he needs support. While he remains with us and is on the pitch, I will be actively supporting him. The 12th man is very powerful in many ways. Currently the 12th man is is doing so much harm than good. .. how long do you support someone who’s completely incompetent at their job ?.. personally would have thought a couple years is long enough. f me let’s give him a pay rise then,man up In any other job he would be sacked
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Post by cj on Oct 23, 2019 19:21:37 GMT
I hate the way Nichols is being treated. I think it's very harsh. With mental health being treated now as something with great importance, Nichols needs support and not what he receives regularly from the crowd in every single game. For the record, I personally don't think he is good enough for us. He is a striker and therefore he's in the team and is paid to make/get goals. The amount of minutes on the pitch that he's had shows he is not good enough at our level when you see his lack of goals/assists. But regardless of his ability, he has always given his best for us and have always worked hard for the team. As a striker though, work rate alone is not enough. But it should be enough not be treated so negatively and be made the scapegoat. It's not his fault that we signed him. It's not his fault that he has the price tag of being our record transfer fee paid. It's not his fault that he keeps being picked to start games or brought on from the bench. So his harsh treatment is unfair and this has massively contributed towards his confidence to be completely shot to pieces. I don't care what anyone says, if you were being abused/moaned/groaned at for every single thing you did in your work place, you would not cope as well as Nichols has. There is only so much this guy can take. Again, he needs support. While he remains with us and is on the pitch, I will be actively supporting him. The 12th man is very powerful in many ways. Currently the 12th man is is doing so much harm than good. .. how long do you support someone who’s completely incompetent at their job ?.. personally would have thought a couple years is long enough. If someone is incompetent at their job, that doesn't mean they deserve the treatment that Nichols have been receiving. Again its not his fault we signed him and continue to play him. He is trying his best. We have seen before players not give a crap when on the pitch (Payne for example) but Nichols is trying his best. Yes it may not be good enough but he certainly doesn't deserve this treatment. I really do feel for him.
To answer your question, how long do you support someone.... in terms of football.... when they are trying their best... every time they put on the club shirt on they should be supported, until they leave the club.
He was visibly distraught when he was taken off last night. He knows every time the ball comes his way, he has the pressure of the world on his shoulders because he knows any mistake he will get slaughtered by the fans. This just isn't right.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Oct 23, 2019 19:25:46 GMT
I'm not condoning fans getting on his back at games, but in fairness people have tried being supportive 80 odd times before its had absolutely no effect.
To suggest that being supportive will somehow magically improve his game is incredibly disingenuous when all the evidence proves the contrary.
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Post by cj on Oct 23, 2019 19:27:53 GMT
There have comments to the effect that others were as poor as Tom last night. Whilst that's undoubtedly true, it's one thing for a player to have the occasional poor game, Nicholls has one every single time. Also, if he is suffering mental distress, it's up to the club to ensure the correct interventions are put in place. If he is suffering, then the last thing they should be doing is asking him to play. It's really not the fault of the supporters, who are entitled to criticise the team and individuals if they're not performing. They get paid decent money to do a job, it's up to the employer to ensure they do, and get them help if it's needed. Supporters are entitled to criticise but last night was something else! And actually for a while now Nichols has been getting more than just criticism.
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Post by cj on Oct 23, 2019 20:02:25 GMT
I'm not condoning fans getting on his back at games, but in fairness people have tried being supportive 80 odd times before its had absolutely no effect. To suggest that being supportive will somehow magically improve his game is incredibly disingenuous when all the evidence proves the contrary. People may have been supportive before towards him but they were minorities because I hear the majority of the fans give nothing but stick towards him from the Blackthorn end.
Im not suggesting supporting him will improve his game. I think that ship has sailed. I honest can't see him bouncing back and improving his game while here at Rovers. However, supporting players makes sense when things are going wrong. Think about it, we know as the 12th man, when supporting the team, you see them up their game. How many times down the years do we hear from players in interviews or on social media say great things about our fans and how we all played a part in games? The same applies the other way. If every game a player plays he gets nothing but abuse, moaning and groaning about every touch he makes and he even receives sarcasm when he does something right, that will obviously effect him.
What I am suggesting is his treatment has been very harsh and some have been totally out of order. Last night really upset me when I seen how much he was effected when he was subbed off. I wanted to give the lad a hug and I glad Coughlan did. The best thing now for Nichols is some time off and maybe a loan in January to try and rebuild his confidence and his mental health.
Playing him Saturday will be literally putting him into the lions den. And that tells me more about those dishing out the treatment. I may be old fashioned here but 20 years ago or so our fanbase was nothing like this. Criticise of course but supportive from the 1st minute to the very last. The treatment that Nichols have been getting is the kind of treatment that is associated with the fans from the other side of Bristol towards their own players. Following City's example, some of our fans must be close to spitting at Nichols and giving out death threats!!!
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Post by cj on Oct 23, 2019 20:05:20 GMT
I've said enough on this now. I can see im in a minority here on the Nichols subject. I am just disappointed that so many gasheads think its acceptable to treat their own players this way.
I think we all agree that he is not good enough for us and that his time is up. But that doesn't mean he deserves this treatment. I leave it there and hope Nichols gets some time off away from our club.
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