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Post by oasisgas on Aug 5, 2020 9:25:44 GMT
Does anybody think with clubs voting on the salary cap tomorrow we may see a new signing today or tomorrow morning as any signings made before would only count as £1300 per week towards the cap???
Seen on twitter (Yes I know) that we are inetrested in Luke Garbutt but only if a move to Sunderland doesn’t go through.
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Post by daniel300380 on Aug 5, 2020 9:29:20 GMT
Does anybody think with clubs voting on the salary cap tomorrow we may see a new signing today or tomorrow morning as any signings made before would only count as £1300 per week towards the cap??? Seen on twitter (Yes I know) that we are inetrested in Luke Garbutt but only if a move to Sunderland doesn’t go through. Really needed to get JCH to sign a new deal before the vote as well. Especially if we are looking to tie him down for a few years. Will be even harder to offload any player's that are above the wage limit now. So we will be stuck with player's like Bennett, unless we can get them off the books now. |
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Post by Jomo on Aug 5, 2020 9:35:35 GMT
Incidentally on the salary cap vote, I would vote in favour of this as I think it's important for the game. However, I would only vote in favour on the basis that measures are enforced to prevent a yo-yo effect from happening. There has to be a realistically competitive bridge between the Championship and L1, otherwise us poor sods supporting L1 clubs and below may as well give up on ever getting beyond that.
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Post by daniel300380 on Aug 5, 2020 9:46:33 GMT
Incidentally on the salary cap vote, I would vote in favour of this as I think it's important for the game. However, I would only vote in favour on the basis that measures are enforced to prevent a yo-yo effect from happening. There has to be a realistically competitive bridge between the Championship and L1, otherwise us poor sods supporting L1 clubs and below may as well give up on ever getting beyond that. They are saying 18 million for championship clubs and 2.5 million for league 1 clubs. I would vote no personally. It should always be a percentage of the club's turnover. It should just be enforced better. Why should Accrington and Sunderland have the same wages budget? Smaller clubs could still get in debt, if they spend the allowed amount, as they don't have that much coming in. |
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Post by neilv93 on Aug 5, 2020 10:01:13 GMT
Incidentally on the salary cap vote, I would vote in favour of this as I think it's important for the game. However, I would only vote in favour on the basis that measures are enforced to prevent a yo-yo effect from happening. There has to be a realistically competitive bridge between the Championship and L1, otherwise us poor sods supporting L1 clubs and below may as well give up on ever getting beyond that. Likewise, there needs to be a proper way of managing the clubs going in between the leagues (which I realise is kinda your point). For example, Crewe stepping into L1 going from £1.5 to £2.5m is manageable and not a huge drop if they go straight back down (albeit 40% reduction). Whereas, if this cap had already started, Wycombe would be going from £2.5m to £18m (!!!) - imagine they stupidly go all out, over-paying on salaries to attract players to keep them in the CH like Yeovil and still go down? What CH club is able to reduce their wagebill from £18m to £2.5m easily? That's absurd. That's a, what, 86% reduction? Any smaller clubs like Wycombe, Yeovil, Burton or hopefully ourselves in the future would self-implode in that scenario. It really shows, IMO, why Burton did it correctly by not over-exerting themselves compared to Yeovil who are now non-league (LOL). Btw, 100% agree with the salary cap but there NEEDS to be better control of salaries at the highest echelons of football, moreso than L1/2. |
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Aug 5, 2020 10:01:59 GMT
Incidentally on the salary cap vote, I would vote in favour of this as I think it's important for the game. However, I would only vote in favour on the basis that measures are enforced to prevent a yo-yo effect from happening. There has to be a realistically competitive bridge between the Championship and L1, otherwise us poor sods supporting L1 clubs and below may as well give up on ever getting beyond that. Yeah, all it's gonna do, istm, is make the steps between the leagues even more ingrained. The best way to deal with this is to have a more gradual slope of prize money all the way down the ladder. At least that way you bung in another half a million, you might get a league position that wins you another half a million. Now, half the teams in the legaue are bunging in three million they can't afford in an effort to win the eight million quid prize. It's almost literally a lottery. A salary cap just lowers the price of the lottery ticket. Or, what neilv said. |
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Post by Jomo on Aug 5, 2020 10:03:19 GMT
Incidentally on the salary cap vote, I would vote in favour of this as I think it's important for the game. However, I would only vote in favour on the basis that measures are enforced to prevent a yo-yo effect from happening. There has to be a realistically competitive bridge between the Championship and L1, otherwise us poor sods supporting L1 clubs and below may as well give up on ever getting beyond that. They are saying 18 million for championship clubs and 2.5 million for league 1 clubs. I would vote no personally. It should always be a percentage of the club's turnover. It should just be enforced better. Why should Accrington and Sunderland have the same wages budget? Smaller clubs could still get in debt, if they spend the allowed amount, as they don't have that much coming in. Yes I would agree with you there. Enforce the existing rules better and the EFL have to buck up their ideas on the "fit and proper" ownership test, which on the evidence of what happened at Bury, Bolton and now Wigan, is completely worthless. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 5, 2020 10:04:17 GMT
Incidentally on the salary cap vote, I would vote in favour of this as I think it's important for the game. However, I would only vote in favour on the basis that measures are enforced to prevent a yo-yo effect from happening. There has to be a realistically competitive bridge between the Championship and L1, otherwise us poor sods supporting L1 clubs and below may as well give up on ever getting beyond that. They are saying 18 million for championship clubs and 2.5 million for league 1 clubs. I would vote no personally. It should always be a percentage of the club's turnover. It should just be enforced better. Why should Accrington and Sunderland have the same wages budget? Smaller clubs could still get in debt, if they spend the allowed amount, as they don't have that much coming in. 1) Why stick with something which clearly doesn't work/could well put Rovers at a disadvantage to the likes of Sunderland & co? 2) If the salary cap comes in this season, Wael seems to have pulled off a master stroke getting in all our new players before the door's closed. |
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Aug 5, 2020 10:05:50 GMT
2) If the salary cap comes in this season, Wael seems to have pulled off a master stroke getting in all our new players before the door's closed. Though if the salary cap does allow this loop hole it's really stupid. Istm they should be voting on implementing this next year (at the soonest), otherwise it's just a half-arsed panic measure. |
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Post by Jomo on Aug 5, 2020 10:07:04 GMT
Incidentally on the salary cap vote, I would vote in favour of this as I think it's important for the game. However, I would only vote in favour on the basis that measures are enforced to prevent a yo-yo effect from happening. There has to be a realistically competitive bridge between the Championship and L1, otherwise us poor sods supporting L1 clubs and below may as well give up on ever getting beyond that. Likewise, there needs to be a proper way of managing the clubs going in between the leagues (which I realise is kinda your point). For example, Crewe stepping into L1 going from £1.5 to £2.5m is manageable and not a huge drop if they go straight back down (albeit 40% reduction). Whereas, if this cap had already started, Wycombe would be going from £2.5m to £18m (!!!) - imagine they stupidly go all out, over-paying on salaries to attract players to keep them in the CH like Yeovil and still go down? What CH club is able to reduce their wagebill from £18m to £2.5m easily? That's absurd. That's a, what, 86% reduction? Any smaller clubs like Wycombe, Yeovil, Burton or hopefully ourselves in the future would self-implode in that scenario. It really shows, IMO, why Burton did it correctly by not over-exerting themselves compared to Yeovil who are now non-league (LOL). Btw, 100% agree with the salary cap but there NEEDS to be better control of salaries at the highest echelons of football, moreso than L1/2. Absolutely agree with your final point, it's all arse about face. Reminds me of the whole "we play too many games" thing with the PL clubs, when they already play fewer games than clubs in the EFL that have squads literally about 1/2 to 1/3 of the size. They then go ahead and make us play MORE games to facilitate the group stage of the EFL Trophy. It's always, allow the PL clubs to do whatever they want, and * the lower leagues. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 5, 2020 10:07:41 GMT
Incidentally on the salary cap vote, I would vote in favour of this as I think it's important for the game. However, I would only vote in favour on the basis that measures are enforced to prevent a yo-yo effect from happening. There has to be a realistically competitive bridge between the Championship and L1, otherwise us poor sods supporting L1 clubs and below may as well give up on ever getting beyond that. Likewise, there needs to be a proper way of managing the clubs going in between the leagues (which I realise is kinda your point). For example, Crewe stepping into L1 going from £1.5 to £2.5m is manageable and not a huge drop if they go straight back down (albeit 40% reduction). Whereas, if this cap had already started, Wycombe would be going from £2.5m to £18m (!!!) - imagine they stupidly go all out, over-paying on salaries to attract players to keep them in the CH like Yeovil and still go down? What CH club is able to reduce their wagebill from £18m to £2.5m easily? That's absurd. That's a, what, 86% reduction? Any smaller clubs like Wycombe, Yeovil, Burton or hopefully ourselves in the future would self-implode in that scenario. It really shows, IMO, why Burton did it correctly by not over-exerting themselves compared to Yeovil who are now non-league (LOL). Btw, 100% agree with the salary cap but there NEEDS to be better control of salaries at the highest echelons of football, moreso than L1/2. But isn't that virtually what Wycombe have to face anyway? £18m is the cap not what every Championship side has to pay out in players wages. Not sure what caused Yeovil's demise but I can't recall it was financial issues, as most of their players were on loan. |
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Post by neilv93 on Aug 5, 2020 10:11:07 GMT
Incidentally on the salary cap vote, I would vote in favour of this as I think it's important for the game. However, I would only vote in favour on the basis that measures are enforced to prevent a yo-yo effect from happening. There has to be a realistically competitive bridge between the Championship and L1, otherwise us poor sods supporting L1 clubs and below may as well give up on ever getting beyond that. Yeah, all it's gonna do, istm, is make the steps between the leagues even more ingrained. The best way to deal with this is to have a more gradual slope of prize money all the way down the ladder. At least that way you bung in another half a million, you might get a league position that wins you another half a million. Now, half the teams in the legaue are bunging in three million they can't afford in an effort to win the eight million quid prize. It's almost literally a lottery. A salary cap just lowers the price of the lottery ticket. Or, what neilv said.Smartest part of your post  |
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 5, 2020 10:12:14 GMT
2) If the salary cap comes in this season, Wael seems to have pulled off a master stroke getting in all our new players before the door's closed. Though if the salary cap does allow this loop hole it's really stupid. Istm they should be voting on implementing this next year (at the soonest), otherwise it's just a half-arsed panic measure. Not really as there's little we could do about Bennetts wages and clubs needed to start signing players this summer. Anyway I doubt we've paid OTT anyway given we've lost the likes of Nichols and Sercs off the wage budget. Given clubs have lost a fortune already this year delaying the cap 'til 2021 would make no sense, we might not even have a L1/L2 by then! |
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Post by neilv93 on Aug 5, 2020 10:16:05 GMT
Likewise, there needs to be a proper way of managing the clubs going in between the leagues (which I realise is kinda your point). For example, Crewe stepping into L1 going from £1.5 to £2.5m is manageable and not a huge drop if they go straight back down (albeit 40% reduction). Whereas, if this cap had already started, Wycombe would be going from £2.5m to £18m (!!!) - imagine they stupidly go all out, over-paying on salaries to attract players to keep them in the CH like Yeovil and still go down? What CH club is able to reduce their wagebill from £18m to £2.5m easily? That's absurd. That's a, what, 86% reduction? Any smaller clubs like Wycombe, Yeovil, Burton or hopefully ourselves in the future would self-implode in that scenario. It really shows, IMO, why Burton did it correctly by not over-exerting themselves compared to Yeovil who are now non-league (LOL). Btw, 100% agree with the salary cap but there NEEDS to be better control of salaries at the highest echelons of football, moreso than L1/2. But isn't that virtually what Wycombe have to face anyway? £18m is the cap not what every Championship side has to pay out in players wages. Not sure what caused Yeovil's demise but I can't recall it was financial issues, as most of their players were on loan. Yeah for sure it is, but my point is that if they're going to bring in salary caps, you can't have SUCH a big jump between L1 and CH or else it just kills the competition and elongates the gap between the two tiers (though that's probably what they're attempting to do anyway tbh). As for Yeovil, I was just making references similar to from here: www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34693161 "To get into the Championship was an absolute miracle for a club of this size," said Fry. "We have a board of directors that are very committed to the club and we have had to work to the regulations of the Football League and they are tough. "We have hit the world of Financial Fair Play, you can spend so much, but you can't spend beyond that. "When you've built a team for the Championship and the salaries they would have been paid to the revenues you get in League One and League Two, you have to change things.
"You have to terminate contracts, get people off the books and I'm telling you it's an absolute nightmare in trying to develop your business, because all the time you are having to change people." |
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Aug 5, 2020 10:17:55 GMT
Though if the salary cap does allow this loop hole it's really stupid. Istm they should be voting on implementing this next year (at the soonest), otherwise it's just a half-arsed panic measure. Not really as there's little we could do about Bennetts wages and clubs needed to start signing players this summer. Anyway I doubt we've paid OTT anyway given we've lost the likes of Nichols and Sercs off the wage budget. Given clubs have lost a fortune already this year delaying the cap 'til 2021 would make no sense, we might not even have a L1/L2 by then! The loop hole is reasonable and necessary if they are implementing things immediately. But if they are implementing stuff that requires a loop hole, then clearly they're implementing it too quickly. They should allow for existing contracts, but that's the sort of thing they should do before a window opens. Doing it half way through a window is mental. That's not allowing for existing contracts that's just acknowledging they didn't get their act together in time. |
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Post by Jomo on Aug 5, 2020 10:18:31 GMT
But isn't that virtually what Wycombe have to face anyway? £18m is the cap not what every Championship side has to pay out in players wages. Not sure what caused Yeovil's demise but I can't recall it was financial issues, as most of their players were on loan. Yeah for sure it is, but my point is that if they're going to bring in salary caps, you can't have SUCH a big jump between L1 and CH or else it just kills the competition and elongates the gap between the two tiers (though that's probably what they're attempting to do anyway tbh). As for Yeovil, I was just making references similar to from here: www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34693161 "To get into the Championship was an absolute miracle for a club of this size," said Fry. "We have a board of directors that are very committed to the club and we have had to work to the regulations of the Football League and they are tough. "We have hit the world of Financial Fair Play, you can spend so much, but you can't spend beyond that. "When you've built a team for the Championship and the salaries they would have been paid to the revenues you get in League One and League Two, you have to change things.
"You have to terminate contracts, get people off the books and I'm telling you it's an absolute nightmare in trying to develop your business, because all the time you are having to change people."Bold sentence is the crux of the matter in my view. Ring fencing would be a dream for the big clubs. |
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Post by neilv93 on Aug 5, 2020 10:20:17 GMT
Likewise, there needs to be a proper way of managing the clubs going in between the leagues (which I realise is kinda your point). For example, Crewe stepping into L1 going from £1.5 to £2.5m is manageable and not a huge drop if they go straight back down (albeit 40% reduction). Whereas, if this cap had already started, Wycombe would be going from £2.5m to £18m (!!!) - imagine they stupidly go all out, over-paying on salaries to attract players to keep them in the CH like Yeovil and still go down? What CH club is able to reduce their wagebill from £18m to £2.5m easily? That's absurd. That's a, what, 86% reduction? Any smaller clubs like Wycombe, Yeovil, Burton or hopefully ourselves in the future would self-implode in that scenario. It really shows, IMO, why Burton did it correctly by not over-exerting themselves compared to Yeovil who are now non-league (LOL). Btw, 100% agree with the salary cap but there NEEDS to be better control of salaries at the highest echelons of football, moreso than L1/2. Absolutely agree with your final point, it's all arse about face. Reminds me of the whole "we play too many games" thing with the PL clubs, when they already play fewer games than clubs in the EFL that have squads literally about 1/2 to 1/3 of the size. They then go ahead and make us play MORE games to facilitate the group stage of the EFL Trophy. It's always, allow the PL clubs to do whatever they want, and * the lower leagues. Yep, I've seen your other posts in other threads about the PL clubs complaining about fixture schedules and 100% agree with you, it's stupid. As for the salary cap stuff, I'm a Man Utd as well as Gas (no judgment please!!!) and the fact that we're about to just rip up Alexis Sanchez's £560,000 PER WEEK contract is an example of everything wrong with finances in the elite level. Obviously Utd are a commercial powerhouse and arguably the biggest club on the planet so we CAN afford that (not that it justifies the stupidity) but the fact that contracts have got to that level is absurd. I think Rovers' weekly salary expenditures for the first team last season were circa £65k (source: Football Manager 2020. You'll joke but it's usually pretty on the money given it gets its data from the clubs themselves) so the fact that clubs in the PL can be shelling out nearly 10x that amount on one player is just straight-up lunacy. But I guess those players, Sanchez aside, are elite and the best in the world at what they do - still needs a line to be drawn though. |
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Post by daniel300380 on Aug 5, 2020 10:45:25 GMT
They are saying 18 million for championship clubs and 2.5 million for league 1 clubs. I would vote no personally. It should always be a percentage of the club's turnover. It should just be enforced better. Why should Accrington and Sunderland have the same wages budget? Smaller clubs could still get in debt, if they spend the allowed amount, as they don't have that much coming in. 1) Why stick with something which clearly doesn't work/could well put Rovers at a disadvantage to the likes of Sunderland & co? 2) If the salary cap comes in this season, Wael seems to have pulled off a master stroke getting in all our new players before the door's closed. Sunderland have earned that advantage! They paid for the stadium in the first place, they have a large crowd and a lot of money coming in. But then they can't spend it?? Yes they could spend it on fees instead. But if they pay a big fee, is the player going to sign in for 2k a week?? Plus it includes agent fees. So any big transfer fee, will see the agent get a big pay out. If we ever manage to get a new stadium and have more money coming in. We shouldn't be able to raise the budget?? The club's that have gone into administration lately, were taken over by bad parties that just stopped paying. So how will this change, change that?? If they checked properly, then it wouldn't have happened. Plus like I said, I expect clubs like Accrington Stanley could actually spend more under this system, than they could before. It should always be a percentage. If that percentage is too high, lower it. 50% of turnover, 45% even. A percentage that would see clubs break even. |
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Post by SleepyGas on Aug 5, 2020 10:47:06 GMT
It'll certainly be interesting to see how all the leagues vote. If I understand correctly; the votes will apply on a per league basis.. so you could have a situation where League One has a 2.5m salary cap, but League Two has none. We could end up losing players to teams in lower leagues because they are willing to pay more (umm.. I mean more often than already happens.. ) |
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Post by neilv93 on Aug 5, 2020 11:08:57 GMT
1) Why stick with something which clearly doesn't work/could well put Rovers at a disadvantage to the likes of Sunderland & co? 2) If the salary cap comes in this season, Wael seems to have pulled off a master stroke getting in all our new players before the door's closed. Sunderland have earned that advantage! They paid for the stadium in the first place, they have a large crowd and a lot of money coming in. But then they can't spend it?? Yes they could spend it on fees instead. But if they pay a big fee, is the player going to sign in for 2k a week?? Plus it includes agent fees. So any big transfer fee, will see the agent get a big pay out. If we ever manage to get a new stadium and have more money coming in. We shouldn't be able to raise the budget?? The club's that have gone into administration lately, were taken over by bad parties that just stopped paying. So how will this change, change that?? If they checked properly, then it wouldn't have happened. Plus like I said, I expect clubs like Accrington Stanley could actually spend more under this system, than they could before. It should always be a percentage. If that percentage is too high, lower it. 50% of turnover, 45% even. A percentage that would see clubs break even. This is a really good point and actually something I've never considered. I could fully understand the Sunderland boardroom being baffled about being held to the same financial constraints as the likes of Accrington when their attendances are literally 30-40x higher and revenues the same. |
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