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Post by GasAttacK on Aug 23, 2020 11:51:03 GMT
Having watched the live stream of our friendlies against Manor Farm, Exeter and FGR and read the match report from our game at Newport, I think jury jury is still out on whether our new signings are an improvement on those that left.
I'll include all BG signings as those that joined in January have only now had the benefit of a full pre season:
Defenders: In: Harries, Ehmer, Baldwin Out: Craig, Menayese, Holmes Dennis
Midfield: In: Westbrooke, Grant, Mitchell-Lawson, Nicholson, Barrett Out: Clarke, Sercombe, Russe, Ogogo and Bennett
(I realise the last two haven't gone yet but have been told they're free to leave and have no future at Rovers)
Strikers: In: Ayunga, Daly
Out: Nichols, Reilly
I know it's very early days so I'm not writing any of these players off and of course we hope their best is yet to come but based on the little we've seen I have to say I am a bit concerned.
Defence:
Craig an intelligent pro with over 500 games experiece. Menayese as big, strong, quick youngster who has shown year on year improvement. Holmes-Dennis the best left back in L1 when fit. Harries looks suspect so far and neither Ehmer or Baldwin have stood out defensively or in poessession.
Midfield: No players could put in more effort and cover more ground that Clarke and Ogogo. Maybe not the best footballers but strong in the tackle and their drive and determination was infectious. They also chipped in with a few goals and both Clarke and Sercombe were capable driving forward with the ball and scoring from range. So far Westbrooke and Grant seem to float around the pitch doing very little apart from backwards and sideways passing.
No direct comparisons for Mitchell-Lawson and Nicholson. Hopefully they prove decent additions, I was impressed with the little I saw of Mitchell-Lawson last season.
Strikers: We've swapped Nichols who has about 50 EFL goals and seemed to get the best out of JCH and Reilly who was a fox in the box type striker who often flattered to decieve but did score a few important goals, with inexperience and youth up front. Neither Ayunga or Daly had ever played in the EFL before joining Rovers and have therefore never scored a goal at this level. A big gamble, particularly when we don't know if we'll still have JCH in October.
Possibly the most telling thing from pre season so far has been our stand out player by some distance has been Upson who many a few weeks ago were saying should be released.
Despite a poor performance yesterday I'm hopeful Ehmer and Baldwin will in the end prove at least adequate replacements for Craig and Menayese, my biggest concern is definitely midfield. We were outfought and outplayed by an average L2 side yesterday. Nobody seemed capable of putting in a tackle without giving away a free kick and their midfield played through us with worrying ease. When we had possession we seemed clueless, continually going backwards and sideways, often ending up back with the keeper and a long ball forward.
I also think we're still short of striking options as JCH is the only one who has any EFL experience or record of scoring goals at this level.
Hopefully our new players are still settling in and they will soon start to shine but I haven't seen much to be optimistic about so far. I'm not writing anyone off or calling for the managers head - I agree it's far too ealry for that - but I had hoped after 10 new signings since he took charge and 7 weeks pre season we'd at least see some evidence that we're making progress. I haven't seen it yet.
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Post by lpgas1 on Aug 23, 2020 11:56:06 GMT
You forgot to add that the manager has limited experience of being a manager and the assistant has no experience. Given Wael has put his faith in this setup I suspect that even if we went down then Garner would still be manager
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Post by Rod1883 on Aug 23, 2020 11:59:19 GMT
Yes, midfield bite and a bit of control is my main worry too.
I fear we might have a severe lack of ability to dictate from midfield when we're on top, and a lack of that fight when under the cosh. It could result in our undoubted good defence getting pressed further and further back, and having to resort to long balls when in possession.
I hope Ogogo can be brought back into the fold, and another creative player brought in.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2020 12:04:01 GMT
Having watched the live stream of our friendlies against Manor Farm, Exeter and FGR and read the match report from our game at Newport, I think jury jury is still out on whether our new signings are an improvement on those that left.
I'll include all BG signings as those that joined in January have only now had the benefit of a full pre season:
Defenders: In: Harries, Ehmer, Baldwin Out: Craig, Menayese, Holmes Dennis
Midfield: In: Westbrooke, Grant, Mitchell-Lawson, Nicholson, Barrett Out: Clarke, Sercombe, Russe, Ogogo and Bennett
(I realise the last two haven't gone yet but have been told they're free to leave and have no future at Rovers)
Strikers: In: Ayunga, Daly
Out: Nichols, Reilly
I know it's very early days so I'm not writing any of these players off and of course we hope their best is yet to come but based on the little we've seen I have to say I am a bit concerned.
Defence:
Craig an intelligent pro with over 500 games experiece. Menayese as big, strong, quick youngster who has shown year on year improvement. Holmes-Dennis the best left back in L1 when fit. Harries looks suspect so far and neither Ehmer or Baldwin have stood out defensively or in poessession.
Midfield: No players could put in more effort and cover more ground that Clarke and Ogogo. Maybe not the best footballers but strong in the tackle and their drive and determination was infectious. They also chipped in with a few goals and both Clarke and Sercombe were capable driving forward with the ball and scoring from range. So far Westbrooke and Grant seem to float around the pitch doing very little apart from backwards and sideways passing.
No direct comparisons for Mitchell-Lawson and Nicholson. Hopefully they prove decent additions, I was impressed with the little I saw of Mitchell-Lawson last season.
Strikers: We've swapped Nichols who has about 50 EFL goals and seemed to get the best out of JCH and Reilly who was a fox in the box type striker who often flattered to decieve but did score a few important goals, with inexperience and youth up front. Neither Ayunga or Daly had ever played in the EFL before joining Rovers and have therefore never scored a goal at this level. A big gamble, particularly when we don't know if we'll still have JCH in October.
Possibly the most telling thing from pre season so far has been our stand out player by some distance has been Upson who many a few weeks ago were saying should be released.
My biggest concern is definitely midfield. We were outfought and outplayed by an average L2 side yesterday. Nobody seemed capable of putting in a tackle without giving away a free kick and their midfield played through us with worrying ease. When we had possession we seemed clueless, continually going backwards and sideways, often ending up back with the keeper and a long ball forward.
Hopefully these players are still settling in and they will soon start to shine but I haven't seen much to be optimistic about so far. I'm not writing anyone off or calling for the managers head - I agree it's far too ealry for that - but I had hoped after 10 new signings since he took charge and 7 weeks pre season we'd at least see some evidence that we're making progress. I haven't seen it yet.
I would argue that you cannot possibly make those assessments based upon a couple of pre season friendlies / practice matches. Wait until October |
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Post by alanrg on Aug 23, 2020 12:11:11 GMT
More doom and gloom on this forum we might as well give up on this season
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Post by bluegas on Aug 23, 2020 12:14:13 GMT
Given Wael has put his faith in this setup I suspect that even if we went down then Garner would still be manager This is the crux of the matter. Wael effectively owns the club and sees developing our own players as our salvation. And BG is the man he has chosen to do it. Like it or lump it. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2020 12:17:43 GMT
Selling Menayese was a mistake but perhaps he wanted to move.
Personally, I would have kept Ogogo as it's good to have a battler in midfield.
Others who have been released I have no problems with. Russe was unlucky but perhaps just a few too many youngster signed or coming though at same time.
From what I've seen it's a mid table squad and one that struggles still to create chances. The pass that opens up defenses still not there yet.
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Post by GasAttacK on Aug 23, 2020 12:23:17 GMT
Selling Menayese was a mistake but perhaps he wanted to move. Personally, I would have kept Ogogo as it's good to have a battler in midfield. Others who have been released I have no problems with. Russe was unlucky but perhaps just a few too many youngster signed or coming though at same time. From what I've seen it's a mid table squad and one that struggles still to create chances. The pass that opens up defenses still not there yet.This is probably my biggest concern. We seem no better in possession or creating chances than we did last season and we've also lost the drive and tough tackling of both Clarke and Ogogo. |
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Post by Hudson1883 on Aug 23, 2020 12:26:45 GMT
Comparing one set of players having played in competitive matches across an entire season or two, against a brand new set of players who have so far played in 2 decent standard friendlies.
I’ll be honest, that doesn’t quite seem all that fair.
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Post by warehamgas on Aug 23, 2020 12:34:02 GMT
I’ve seen all the posts on here about Ogogo but has he actually gone? Everyone is speaking as if he has but as with Bennett there is a big difference between talking about it and actually going. I hope he stays, we need that sort of midfielder as a balance.
UTG!
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 23, 2020 12:46:57 GMT
I think the players are an improvement on the ones that have moved on.
I'm still yet to be convinced by BG but we dont know what he setting out to achieve in pre season.
For example, he played with 10 men for a while just to see how we got on.
Unless we know what's been asked of the players or what BGs is looking at I dont see how we can pass judgement until the season kicks off.
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Post by yattongas on Aug 23, 2020 12:59:31 GMT
Having watched the live stream of our friendlies against Manor Farm, Exeter and FGR and read the match report from our game at Newport, I think jury jury is still out on whether our new signings are an improvement on those that left.
I'll include all BG signings as those that joined in January have only now had the benefit of a full pre season:
Defenders: In: Harries, Ehmer, Baldwin Out: Craig, Menayese, Holmes Dennis
Midfield: In: Westbrooke, Grant, Mitchell-Lawson, Nicholson, Barrett Out: Clarke, Sercombe, Russe, Ogogo and Bennett
(I realise the last two haven't gone yet but have been told they're free to leave and have no future at Rovers)
Strikers: In: Ayunga, Daly
Out: Nichols, Reilly
I know it's very early days so I'm not writing any of these players off and of course we hope their best is yet to come but based on the little we've seen I have to say I am a bit concerned.
Defence:
Craig an intelligent pro with over 500 games experiece. Menayese as big, strong, quick youngster who has shown year on year improvement. Holmes-Dennis the best left back in L1 when fit. Harries looks suspect so far and neither Ehmer or Baldwin have stood out defensively or in poessession.
Midfield: No players could put in more effort and cover more ground that Clarke and Ogogo. Maybe not the best footballers but strong in the tackle and their drive and determination was infectious. They also chipped in with a few goals and both Clarke and Sercombe were capable driving forward with the ball and scoring from range. So far Westbrooke and Grant seem to float around the pitch doing very little apart from backwards and sideways passing.
No direct comparisons for Mitchell-Lawson and Nicholson. Hopefully they prove decent additions, I was impressed with the little I saw of Mitchell-Lawson last season.
Strikers: We've swapped Nichols who has about 50 EFL goals and seemed to get the best out of JCH and Reilly who was a fox in the box type striker who often flattered to decieve but did score a few important goals, with inexperience and youth up front. Neither Ayunga or Daly had ever played in the EFL before joining Rovers and have therefore never scored a goal at this level. A big gamble, particularly when we don't know if we'll still have JCH in October.
Possibly the most telling thing from pre season so far has been our stand out player by some distance has been Upson who many a few weeks ago were saying should be released.
My biggest concern is definitely midfield. We were outfought and outplayed by an average L2 side yesterday. Nobody seemed capable of putting in a tackle without giving away a free kick and their midfield played through us with worrying ease. When we had possession we seemed clueless, continually going backwards and sideways, often ending up back with the keeper and a long ball forward.
Hopefully these players are still settling in and they will soon start to shine but I haven't seen much to be optimistic about so far. I'm not writing anyone off or calling for the managers head - I agree it's far too ealry for that - but I had hoped after 10 new signings since he took charge and 7 weeks pre season we'd at least see some evidence that we're making progress. I haven't seen it yet.
I would argue that you cannot possibly make those assessments based upon a couple of pre season friendlies / practice matches. Wait until October Was just going to write similar, you beat me to it . Friendlies mean naff all , it’s just for fitness . |
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Post by titchthephot on Aug 23, 2020 13:04:06 GMT
I'll pass judgement after at least 10 competitive games. Friendlies are just glorified training sessions. The Jury isn't out....they've not even been called for yet!!
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Post by gassince1957 on Aug 23, 2020 13:04:19 GMT
I think the players are an improvement on the ones that have moved on. I'm still yet to be convinced by BG but we dont know what he setting out to achieve in pre season. For example, he played with 10 men for a while just to see how we got on. Unless we know what's been asked of the players or what BGs is looking at I dont see how we can pass judgement until the season kicks off. You're not allowed to be sensible on this forum - shame on you!!  |
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Post by pucklegas on Aug 23, 2020 13:35:39 GMT
I'll pass judgement after at least 10 competitive games. Friendlies are just glorified training sessions. The Jury isn't out....they've not even been called for yet!! Take a bow post of the month. Let's see after 10 games where we are, players are not going in 100 % yet, all about fitness. |
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Post by WeAreTheGas on Aug 23, 2020 13:39:10 GMT
I should hope the jury is still out when the ‘Ins’ have made a combined 19 competitive appearances for Rovers compared to 691 by the ‘Outs’.
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Post by Rod1883 on Aug 23, 2020 13:43:09 GMT
In fairness to the OP, he has made a pretty well thought out post regarding where we are with the players we have. Perhaps the title isn't correct, but the points are valid, and as I said above I am also concerned about the midfield. No harm in some discussion and debate - that's what the forum is for.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2020 14:13:15 GMT
I’ve seen all the posts on here about Ogogo but has he actually gone? Everyone is speaking as if he has but as with Bennett there is a big difference between talking about it and actually going. I hope he stays, we need that sort of midfielder as a balance. UTG! I noticed that Ogogo's name is on the club's list regarding shirt sponsorship, whereas Bennett's is not. Probably clutching at straws, as I'd really like him to stay! |
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Post by teanbiscuits on Aug 23, 2020 14:44:01 GMT
I think it's impossible to judge a new team after the longest lay off of their careers and that's not the only challenge this time around.
Pre-season is going to be all over the place this year. Games are fewer and further between than they usually are, some will be arranged or changed at short notice too. The training ground is going to be a difficult place to train with parts of it being closed off and more seperated due to the Covid regulations. Preparing any kit will take much longer with it having to be cleaned and disinfected so that leaves less time to use gym equipment and other kit. Covid testing will also take time out of the schedule. That will be worse for trialists as EFL Covid procedures make it a big inconvenience to even have a brief look at someone let alone get them involved in a game.
I'm sure there are many other Covid related issues too that I haven't touched on but it's not a fair comparison to any other start to a campaign. So much time and effort is going into getting football back again that it's hard to see how preperations can be up to usual standards. Some clubs are going to be operating in a really chaotic manor going into the new season with increased costs and Covid regulations coupled with an unpredictable income, we could be one of them but so could anyone else in the league so it is impossible to call where we are compared to the rest.
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Post by warehamgas on Aug 23, 2020 14:48:25 GMT
I’ve seen all the posts on here about Ogogo but has he actually gone? Everyone is speaking as if he has but as with Bennett there is a big difference between talking about it and actually going. I hope he stays, we need that sort of midfielder as a balance. UTG! I noticed that Ogogo's name is on the club's list regarding shirt sponsorship, whereas Bennett's is not. Probably clutching at straws, as I'd really like him to stay! Thanks Tilly, that’s the first “factual” thing I’ve read about Ogogo possibly leaving. I’m clutching the same straw. UTG! |
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